I'm going to puke if

[eelskimmer]

I hear "full faith and credit" one more time, we have neither
any faith nor credit anymore.

[Raven]

the Senator from Tennessee said we owe 82 trillion
and that's more than the whole worlds currencies
added together....
but from a practical standpoint
cops wouldn't do their jobs for free
so why should our military do it @ the American taxpayers expense
any military action should be Purchased for top dollar in advance.
I'm still waiting for some KUWAIT oil to be delivered for free

[bobber]

credit is all relative.... just like the value of the American dollar. if ya need more, just make up a new batch o' money (or raise the debt ceiling) and pretend nothin is wrong

[spence]

Well, most businesses run with some debt. When managed right it's not a problem and can even be an asset as long as you have cash flow...

But the ability to acquire debt when you do need it is pretty critical. It's actually how our entire economy runs. That's a big reason why so many large companies are sitting on cash these days.

-spence

[Raven]

this is a fun thread (i believe} and Not a Business administration thread.

If what Bobber says is in Fact true....

and everyone just "plays" along by continuously Pretending

then this is "Fantasy Land"... and who's in charge of it...ALL

the Royal King of Pure Deception ....Mr Transparency himself...

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, most businesses run with some debt. When managed right it's not a problem and can even be an asset as long as you have cash flow...


-spence

"when managed right"

If we are talking about the government here, well there is your problem right there. Managed right? can't you just admit it has NOT been managed right?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

"when managed right"

If we are talking about the government here, well there is your problem right there. Managed right? can't you just admit it has NOT been managed right?

Milton Friedman, the famous economist, once highlighted that spending money always falls into 1 of 4 categories...

(1) spending your money on yourself - when you spend your own money on yourself, you have every reason to do it as efficiently as possible...the best quality at the best price. This is efficient spending.

(2) spending other people's money on yourself - in this case, you are likely to look for the highest quality, ragerdless of price. This is what happens when ex-wives go shopping at Tiffany's with their former husband's credit cards.

(3) spending your money on other people - in this category, you have an incentive to get the lowest price, regardless of quality. This is why we get socks at Christmas from distant relatives.

(4) spending other people's money on other people - in this case, you have no incentive to give a crap about quality or price. This is where the most inefficiency is seen. And every cent that is spent by the government, falls into this categoty. That's how you get where we are,

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

"when managed right"

If we are talking about the government here, well there is your problem right there. Managed right? can't you just admit it has NOT been managed right?

Spence has acknowledged that it has not been managed right. He believes that it can be fixed if government folks would simply act responsibly. He doesn't say what "responsibly" is. If it means spending less, or reducing the scope of government so that less money is needed to manage it, that would be asking the gvt. to relinquish some power and devolve it back to the people--to give back to the people responsibilities and cash to manage their own lives. But that would require the leap of faith by our political managers that we are capable of taking care of ourselves with a lot less "help" from them. That they could suffer such a blow to their egos, or to their agendas, to their ideology, is questionable.

The "problem" is not how they manage, but who they are and what they believe. That determines what they consider "responsible" to be.

And the problem also requires that We The People actually believe we are capable of living without the ever expanding "help" we receive from those who wish to manage us. That depends on who we are and what we believe.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

That they could suffer such a blow to their egos, or to their agendas, to their ideology, is questionable.

.

I don't think it's questionable, I don't think there's any ambiguity there. Not only are those in DC unwilling to surrender the ontrol they have, they are looking to increase it. Hence Obamacare.

[Slipknot]

thanks




next time I am in Boston, I'll go by the statehouse and puke on the front steps

[5/0]

Wrong forum to post this...and not sorry to post this.
Sorry John(eelskimmer)
I'm busting my nuts day in and day out and these f ups have a strait month off better,heath care and don't pay into it(I pay 11k each year)
And they can't come to an agreement.
So they're shutting down,how about we don't pay taxes till they get back on line?!?!?
Sorry but I'm ready for a re revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah I'm fired up.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jackbass]

Some debt is absolutely reasonable. Getting to the point where the debt is so far gone that it is reasonable to just add to it. That's a problem
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

Each one of us owes around $50,000 if we all had to pay off the national debt.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Each one of us owes around $50,000 if we all had to pay off the national debt.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Spence can pay my share since he doesn't think it's a problem

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Each one of us owes around $50,000 if we all had to pay off the national debt.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Nebe, it would be about $50k each to pay off the national debt, which is around $17 trilliion. But that number excludes the unfunded liabilities to Medicare and Sociual Security, which are at least another $50 trillion. Raven says the total debt, including those entitlement programs, is around $82 trillion. If we use that number, every single living American owes $273,333 (assuming there are 300 million Americans).

Think about that for a second. At our current tax and spending levels, we have overspent by more than a quarter million dollars for each one of us. Every family of 4 owes another $1.1 million, in addition to what they currently pay in taxes.

When someone like Paul Ryan says "we can't afford this", those on Spence's side make a commercial showing Ryan pushing a wheelchair-bound old lady off a cliff. The imnplication is clear. If you don't think that we should continue this deficit spending, liberals will say you hate old people and poor people.

That's where American politics is. In 15-20 years, the entitlements will collapse the economy in a way that makes 2008 look like the roaring 1920's. When that happens, most people will realize that Paul Ryan was correct, and that the liberals were full of it. It will cause the moderate folks, the ones who are somehow still on the fence, to reject liberalism. Even Spence will have a hard time saying with a staright face that Obama was right and Paul Ryan was wrong...

THis was the easiest problem in the world to solve. Economists have been saying since 1960, that the Baby Boomers would bankrupt Social Security and Medicare. It's like a slow-moving train that's been coming at us for 50 years, and we didn't have the political will to step off the tracks. Had we addressed the probblem back then,m it would have been a mild fix. Not now. Witness what happened in Central Falls, Rhode Island, which went broke, and had to cut pension payments to current retirees by 50 percent.

That storm is coming, it is a mathematical certainty. Today, liberalks are rejecting the principles of elementary school arithmetic. This is not higher order calculus, it is 4th grade arithmetic. And the liberals reject the notion that overspending by $250k per person, is un-sustainable.

Historically, both parties share the blame. Today, only one side denies the reality.

Spence, your response? That "some debt is expected and OK"? That we can just print off another $80 trillion in new money and give it to China?

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Economists have been saying since 1960, that the Baby Boomers would bankrupt Social Security and Medicare. It's like a slow-moving train that's been coming at us for 50 years, and we didn't have the political will to step off the tracks. Had we addressed the probblem back then,m it would have been a mild fix. Not now.

Our politicians just kept their heads in the sand all these years regarding the biggest ponzi scheme in the history of the world.
We put into SS and when it comes time to collect, I expect it to be there but things don't look so good seeing how our wonderful government has spent it all and then some.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Our politicians just kept their heads in the sand .

Currently, only one party's politicians are denying the existence of a problem. Granted, every politician who has served in the last 50 years, who didn't propose a fix, is at fault. But what the Democrats are doing today (suggesting that those who admit the existence of a problem, hate old people and poor people) is unconscionable, it is the absolute pinnacle of intellectual dishonesty. They have no shame, none at all.

[Raven]

my blood is beginning to boil

[N.ShoreFisher]

I love politics. I actually do, the problem is that it's made up of humans. Humans tend to screw up everything they touch. Ignorance and dishonesty are the 2 BIGGEST problems about politics, end of story. Ignorance, because many, if not most people in this country are fine with other people making the rules. They're not involved, they don't read laws, write to their representatives, but love to complain. Dishonesty, because those in power rarely poll their constituents to see what they want. They forget that they're in that position to be a servant. It's a privilege to serve as a politician, but unfortunately they've forgotten about that, and in turn are dishonest when they lie about motivations for certain actions or inactions. They fight tooth and nail against social, economic, domestic and international issues, but always seem to find the time to vote on another pay raise, free health care for themselves and college for their kids, as well as loving to showboat that some are "not taking my paycheck so that I'm in sync with those that are out of work due to the shut down", when in fact they, by law(which they passed in the 70's after another government shutdown) actually have no say and "have to take it". There's only a handful that actually donate it to show their support. It's all a dishonest show for the masses, and for the most part, we'll complain a little, but won't write letters, or run for office or rise up and march or anything else because we'll already be on to the next thing that grabs our attention.
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" -JFK

[Raven]

kinda cool how the ASTRONAUTS in Space
said " hey HUMANS! " get your act together