Montauk eel rod

[dannyplug1]

I am thinking about having CMS make me a rod that John skinner calls the montauk eel rod. Is there any one out there that has had one made or fished one. I would be curious to know the range of weight it throws, it's sweet spot (best throwing weight), and over all fishability. Thanks Charlie

[ivanputski]

My understanding of this type of rod is a 1201L cut down to a 9'6" rod... 3" from the butt, 3' from the tip...


or something like that...dont quote me exactly. seems people talked about them alot years ago

[numbskull]

I have an uncut 1201L. It throws 1-3 well. Shortening it would likely shift the lower range up a little (since the lever arm to load the blank is less) and cut the upper range a bit (since you are throwing away the stronger portion of the blank…….although GSBs can lob stuff well above their range so you probably wouldn't notice much change on the high end).
The rod at 10 ft is slow. The effect of shortening it is likely minimal on that. Shorter rods in general feel a little faster (since there is less length to unload) but cutting from the butt moves you into a softer part of the rod and that likely slows things down so it ends up about the same. A similar example is a GSB1201M which is apparently a GSB1321M with a foot off the butt. Their upper range is similar, the 1321M does a bit better with light stuff.

Skinner uses large guides that likely add a lot of weight and slow things down further. The guides add load to the rod so it feels like you can cast light stuff better (in fact you can't). I think he uses fireline and a pretty big reel so he needs big guides. If you plan to use braid and a midsized reel you can do WAY better (you should have come to plugfest and seen for yourself what new KLH/M guides make possible).

Lots of new blanks have become available since this cut GSB idea was born. At the time it made sense because it gave you more power and upper range than a 1081L, but was not as stiff (or theoretically as likely to tear eels) as a 10181M. Times have changed, however. If you plan to primarily plug I suspect you can find a 1-3 nine foot blank that will perform better than a cut 1201L. Have you looked into the FSC 1087 or 1086? CTS and Century likely have good options as well.

[jskinner]

Originally Posted by numbskull

I have an uncut 1201L. It throws 1-3 well. Shortening it would likely shift the lower range up a little (since the lever arm to load the blank is less) and cut the upper range a bit (since you are throwing away the stronger portion of the blank…….although GSBs can lob stuff well above their range so you probably wouldn't notice much change on the high end).
The rod at 10 ft is slow. The effect of shortening it is likely minimal on that. Shorter rods in general feel a little faster (since there is less length to unload) but cutting from the butt moves you into a softer part of the rod and that likely slows things down so it ends up about the same. A similar example is a GSB1201M which is apparently a GSB1321M with a foot off the butt. Their upper range is similar, the 1321M does a bit better with light stuff.

Skinner uses large guides that likely add a lot of weight and slow things down further. The guides add load to the rod so it feels like you can cast light stuff better (in fact you can't). I think he uses fireline and a pretty big reel so he needs big guides. If you plan to use braid and a midsized reel you can do WAY better (you should have come to plugfest and seen for yourself what new KLH/M guides make possible).

Lots of new blanks have become available since this cut GSB idea was born. At the time it made sense because it gave you more power and upper range than a 1081L, but was not as stiff (or theoretically as likely to tear eels) as a 10181M. Times have changed, however. If you plan to primarily plug I suspect you can find a 1-3 nine foot blank that will perform better than a cut 1201L. Have you looked into the FSC 1087 or 1086? CTS and Century likely have good options as well.

Thought I'd clarify some of this. My first guide is a 40mm, and it's the only double-foot guide on the rod. From there it's 30, 20, 16, 16 tip, but all of those guides are single foot bsvlg. The total finished weight of the rod is only 9.5 ounces. I use a VS200 with 30-pound braid on it. It has seen 11 years of heavy use with everything from 3/4-ounce lures to rigged and live eels. There are lots of vids on my YouTube channel with it. As I've written about it a few times, it was actually John Scherr who named it "The Montauk Eel Rod". It's nice at Montauk in calmish conditions, but beyond that I use my 1201M there for eels.

[bart]

^^^ thoroughly enjoy your videos

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by jskinner

Thought I'd clarify some of this. My first guide is a 40mm, and it's the only double-foot guide on the rod. From there it's 30, 20, 16, 16 tip, but all of those guides are single foot bsvlg. The total finished weight of the rod is only 9.5 ounces. I use a VS200 with 30-pound braid on it.

Obviously you like the outfit and it works well for you and your accomplishments as a fisherman adds weight to your opinion, but for the sake of discussion (and to help others considering such an outfit) let me differ.

I'd suggest that anything more than a VS150 and a guide layout going KLH20-KLH10-KLM8-KT8 runners-8tip (or starting with a 25 for KW guides or 16M for LC guides) is overkill on a 1201L blank, adds unnecessary weight, and detracts from rod performance.

With braid ( fireline or mono is a different story) there is no advantage (other than weed clearance and knot passage) and several disadvantages to guides 16mm anywhere near a rod's tip. Your rod is reasonably light because you use so few guides, but this comes at the cost of guide looping and power loss (because of corner cutting between guides) and diminished rod sensitivity. Obviously you don't notice the latter two (likely since you've nothing to compare it to) and apparently guide looping does not plague you (probably because a cut 1201L doesn't generate the line speed to cause a problem). Still, as much as you like your rod there is a good chance you would like it much more with smaller, lighter guides and more of them to tame the braid faster and keep it closer to the rod. You don't know until you try.

Likewise, I'd suggest a full-sized reel like a VS200 is too much for the blank. The spool size and reel height forces you into larger guides than you need, the reel weight is about 5oz more than a 150 or 5000 reel, the line capacity is not needed for 30-40 thin braid, and the drag power is unnecessary since the GSB 120 already maxes out under 5-6lbs of drag (if you doubt this try lifting 5lbs off the floor with the rod under locked drag). Reducing your reel size reduces your total outfit weight by nearly 20% and improves your feel for what you are fishing accordingly. Doing so gives up nothing in return on this blank.

Again, the opinion of any good fisherman such as yourself is to be respected and considered. Obviously the outfit you advocate performs well and has earned your loyalty. Still, I think people are well advised to understand how guide systems set for braid and high quality medium sized reels can accomplish the same job much heavier tackle was needed for in the past. This is particularly important when using slow action GSB blanks.

PS. The GSB 1321M is another blank that comes alive and excels with lighter guide systems.

[numbskull]

A clarification about drag strength and rod power.

What a blank can dead lift (as I implied above) is not necessarily a limit on how much drag you can use, only how much pull on a fish you can apply while pumping the fish.

If you point the rod at a fish you can take the rod power out of the equation and only line strength limits your drag setting. If you hold the rod a 45 degrees (as you should) when the fish is running you can fish a tighter drag than the rod can lift, but you do not gain any more lifting power when pumping the fish for doing so and you lose much of the rods dampening or shock absorbing action while the fish runs.

[East Tide]

Interesting observations, Numbskull. Do you have data to support these claims from a wide cross section of casters? I don't mean to sound accusatory, simply curious.

Personally, I enjoy building rods and find with my rudimentary methods can make something that fishes exceptionally and fits my style and needs. Two exceptions over the last 15 years would be a Pac Bay 1208 I built that seemed to "shake" a little when throwing heavy metal long distances with braid and a All Star 1328 I built last year that is a great CCC jigging rod, but fairly tip heavy (even with a Abu 7500 on it).

I have also found that with an eel rod or jigging rod I prefer it to be balanced a little more towards the back end, which you can also accomplish with a heavier reel. Maybe that's why JS chose the heavier reel?

Good thoughts.

[Surf Caster]

My fishing partner has the "Montauk Eel Rod" and I have to say it doesn't get much action. Most nights that we are eeling, he sticks to his 132 1M as it a far more versatile rod.

I've cast his Montauk Eel Rod and find it to be very very soft - which is the point, I guess. Regardless of how soft or how easy it is on the eels, he still fishes his 132 1M as it isn't too fast for eels.

When I know I'm going to be eeling for most of the night, i have a 120 1M that was built specifically wrapped for eeling (layed out concept) and I find it soft enough to throw eels but gives me more versatility in throwing anything from a 3/4oz bucktail to a 4oz GRS pike (which are always in my bag).

In my opinion, your better off with a GSB M blank as it will give you more range and versatility if you plan on bringing plugs with you, etc.

If you know you're only throwing eels that night, then maybe the 120 1L cut down is the way to go. Just my $0.02

[Rob Rockcrawler]

I have the so called eel rod. 1201L with 6" off the top. I really like the rod, and it does excel at throwing eels. I have not used it much of late as i prefer an 11' super surf for eeling. This thread has gotten me in the mood to use it a bit more. I would rate it 3/4-2.5 oz or so. It does fine with bucktails down to 3/4 oz as well. Sweet spot is probably 1.5-2 oz. It was probably the most versatile rod i owned until i got a stealth.

[snake slinger]

GSb1201m is a great eel rod
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[East Tide]

I didn't realize that's what it's called, but I have a 120-1L I trimmed to 9'6, 3" from each end. It's not my favorite eeling rod, as others mentioned, I prefer the 120-1M (which I trim 4" from the tip). It's a super versatile plugging/eeling rod. My only issue with it is, imo, it doesn't have the power to lift fish from the bottom or turn fish mid tide at the canal. I'm building a Century 1267 which feels like it should fit the same use but with a little deeper power.

[Eric Roach]

X2 for the GSB1321M being even better with light guides. I've built a few with titanium guides; the latest has a #25 stripper and #6 single-foot running guides. I use 14 lb. original Fireline and a VS275 on this rig and get good distance; over 150 yards on the grass (measured field, 3 oz. sinker and off-the-ground cast). Love the 1321M.

One conclusion I came to in rod building: It's very personal and subjective. What works for one person might not work for another. Not sure I believe in "rules" anymore, just what meets my needs and wants. Example: I use a VS150 on an 11.5' Rainshadow. Some would (and do) gasp.

[East Tide]

Thanks for the answers. I just assumed by your post that it was factual, not personal preference and you had done some studies to reach your conclusions and would have liked to see the results.

I use 8 guides on most of the 10' (almost all conventional) or so rods I build and it works well for me as well.

[niko]

That's the exact opposite of how I like to fish, lol.
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[Clogston29]

I tried the cut 1201L and was not a big fan. I have a 1201m with 6" cut from the butt that I really like. Great for eels, riggies and plugs. I usually use an uncut 1201m, but do really like the cut one in a lot of situations.
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[Eric Roach]

I have a GSB120L with 3" off the butt built as a schoolie rod. Titanium single-foot guides and titanium plate seat. No cork tape, just x-flock grip and decorative cord work. This is the lightest surf rod I've ever held. With a VS150, it's a great outfit.
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