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Plug Building - Got Wood? Got Plug?

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Old 02-18-2017, 01:39 PM   #1
Ryan560
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Epoxy clear coat weight?

Working on a batch of darters and I didn't account for weight loss as sealer dried.
Darter I'm trying to copy weighs 1.92oz without hooks. Mine all weighed close to 1.40oz before sealer. I had them dialed into my target weight of 1.72oz when I removed them from the sealer. Now after a few weeks drying there hovering around 1.60oz.
Wondering if the clear coat will makeup that .10-.15oz difference or if I should soak in sealer again? What say you darter gurus?
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Old 02-18-2017, 01:48 PM   #2
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Probably close Ryan depending on surface area

if they don't, put on another coat of finish

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Old 02-18-2017, 01:55 PM   #3
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Great idea Bruce! Why didn't I think of that? Guess I'll keep moving forward on these. Thanks for the help
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Old 02-18-2017, 02:39 PM   #4
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I think epoxy sealing will add a bit more weight too.
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Old 02-18-2017, 02:55 PM   #5
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Frank my original plan was to epoxy seal these,but never having epoxy sealed birch before I was unsure how much epoxy they would soak up? I figured it would be easier to dial in weight with spar/turps. Looking back I should've atleast tried epoxy sealing one as a test. Will definitely try that method on the next batch.
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan560 View Post
Frank my original plan was to epoxy seal these,but never having epoxy sealed birch before I was unsure how much epoxy they would soak up? I figured it would be easier to dial in weight with spar/turps. Looking back I should've atleast tried epoxy sealing one as a test. Will definitely try that method on the next batch.
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good

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Old 02-18-2017, 08:19 PM   #7
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Ryan, I haven't weighed any before and after epoxy sealing so I don't have any info to provide in that regard.

I have used two methods CPES and envirotex.

CPES seems to continuously soak into the wood, I was surprised to be honest. I used a 1/8" bit to control this product while sending it down the thru hole. A single coat on maple of cpes is not enough, I had several splits using this product, it was also more time consuming.

Using envirotex as a sealer is what I use hands down outperforms the CPES. I place the epoxy bottles in a pan of hot water for 5 min or so, mix my epoxy, then I heat the plugs in the microwave (no lead no metal) for a bit maybe 10 second intervals until hot. Wearing gloves and over a drip tray, I start each plug by sending the epoxy down the thru hole until full and pouring out the hook holes, turn it on its back and do the same for the hook holes and if I have any the WT holes too. Super important is to plunge the thru hole to get the epoxy to work into and give complete coverage inside. Then I finish the exterior, esp the lip and slope cut, and tail, then coat the sides. Make sure the thru hole is clean, and I wipe the excess off to prevent runs if there is too much, add weights if it needs them, usually not with maple.

Then I just hang them lip up so I only get a booger on the tail. Make sure the bailing wire has a bend in it so there isn't too many contact points otherwise the wire will be difficult to remove once dried, I try to do this the following am or 12 hours later because it's fine to touch at that point because it's not a top coat.

I spend the extra time doing this because it really does help strengthen the wood, and I don't make a lot of them. I've done maybe 40 darters total so for me it's worth it.

You get a rock hard plug body as an end result, and good bottom lip protection for banging rocks on the retrieve.

Sorry I couldn't add to the discussion on weighting. I do think the plug body if baked and possibly microwaved would lose Wt because of the moisture content loss, but epoxy sealing overall would be more added wt. than other methods.
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:28 PM   #8
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I did weigh some maple needles and ayc Donny's before and after epoxy sealing, can't seem to find the notes now. But from what I can remember it wasn't much difference

I'll try and look for the notes
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Old 02-18-2017, 10:32 PM   #9
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Funny timing on this as I was epoxy sealing plugs this week too and was comparing weight gain to some needles I sealed in helmsman so I had weighed them before/after just to compare.. I primed them this morning but can still read the weights thru the primer.

For these ones I warmed the plugs (but not hot, just warm) and I epoxy sealed with thinned envirotek and wiped down after about 5 minutes. Weight went from 2.2 to 2.35 oz. These are soft maple not birch.

Be careful with darters, the one time I really screwed them up I heated them too much and let them soak up too much sealer and after wiring they didnt float.
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Old 02-18-2017, 11:56 PM   #10
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Thanks guys a lot of info to soak in..No pun intended lol.
Reason I was hesitant with epoxy sealing these is I did a batch of pine, wrc, and awc swimmers and the weight they picked up was not very consistent anywhere from .15-.50oz. I'll definitely be trying epoxy sealing on the next batch of darters and needles.
Lots of great info here thanks for sharing!
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Old 02-19-2017, 08:17 AM   #11
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Darters do better too light than too heavy.
Pine and the cedars are softwoods. Their pores are closed (or not continuous). They don't soak up much sealer because there is not a lot of path for it to travel through the wood.

Maples, Birch, Basswood are hardwoods. They have open pores/tubes that run the length of the tree (that's why they can tap maples for sap). They are capable of absorbing lots of sealer if it is thin like water. Maybe (probably?) epoxy is less of an issue because of its viscosity but I don't know.

When I build weight critical plugs I tend to use hardwood. I weigh it before sealer then check occasionally while in sealer. I pull it out when it is @.05-.1 oz above desired weight as it usually loses about that much weight during drying (keep in mind your clear coat will add some weight back). You need to be careful as the rate with which hardwoods gain weight in sealer does not (in my experience) seem constant. They tend to gain faster with time.
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Old 02-19-2017, 08:57 AM   #12
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I didnt know that about the different woods, thanks for sharing that George.

Makes total sense with what I saw from the batch of plugs that were in the spar varnish. I had small maple needles and larger white pine needles soaking in that batch for almost 24 hours hoping to see some weight gain. The smaller maple needles on average picked up .2 oz, the larger pine only gained .05.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numbskull View Post
Darters do better too light than too heavy.
When I build weight critical plugs I tend to use hardwood. I weigh it before sealer then check occasionally while in sealer. I pull it out when it is @.05-.1 oz above desired weight as it usually loses about that much weight during drying (keep in mind your clear coat will add some weight back). You need to be careful as the rate with which hardwoods gain weight in sealer does not (in my experience) seem constant. They tend to gain faster with time.
That's good to know I have a little margin for error on the low end.
I remembered an old post of yours with the batch of darters on fire in the snow. Which is why I made sure to log weight before sealer and check periodically, Just yanked them too early.
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:56 PM   #14
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I epoxy sealed some birch darters past few days. Sys 3
Straight. Heated for 40 seconds in microwave. They gained .1 to .2 max of an oz. so not much.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
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I epoxy sealed some birch darters past few days. Sys 3
Straight. Heated for 40 seconds in microwave. They gained .1 to .2 max of an oz. so not much.
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With small darters .2oz over target can be significant as I unfortunately learned with my first 2 dozen Dalecki copies.
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:20 AM   #16
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Ah. I see. So they are made of maple? I make most of my small stuff with AYC so not much gain at all. The Pichney birch darter soaked for 1.5 hours in spar or done with the epoxy sealed method pretty much ended up the same no real difference to both methods.
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Old 02-20-2017, 12:48 PM   #17
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found some old notes. on my 10"needle epoxy added .3oz, 8" needle added .2oz and stubby added .1oz.

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Old 02-20-2017, 05:27 PM   #18
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Weighted some more birch darters today I sealed yesterday eith epoxy. .1 was pretty much it.
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