Jerusalem

[JohnR]

Good goal to someday have Jerusalem as the recognized capitol, or as an Open City.

Like the concept - now is not the time IMO.

As for Palestinian Days of Rage - ain't that every day?

[Nebe]

Gotta make those evangelicals happy!
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Gotta make those evangelicals happy!
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Well, most people that are not anti-Israel would like to see it or at least have it an open city. Not everyone hates the Jews or wears Che shirts ya know.

[wdmso]

not anti Israel but honestly what benefit do they provide the united states compared to the head ache they provide us internationally.. look how they have treated non jews .
between the settlements and the basics its a 2 way way street but many pro israel see it as as a one way street and any negative your labeled a jew hater from israel supporters ....

if Trump just walked away from the 2 state solution which would be ok with me .. if he didn't roll a hand grenade in the room and officially pick a side and then walked out .. ( who's side we were on has never been in question) lets see how he likes the new reality

[scottw]

President Bill Clinton made Jerusalem a campaign issue in 1992, attacking then-former President George H.W. Bush for having allegedly “repeatedly challenged Israel’s sovereignty over a united Jerusalem” and vowing to move the embassy during his administration.

George W. Bush castigated Clinton for failing to follow through on his embassy promise and vowing to get the process started in his few months in office. Bush never made a concerted effort towards moving the embassy and became embroiled his own Middle East conflicts.

President Barack Obama declared in a 2008 campaign speech, “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.”

President Donald Trump will begin the formal process of moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem Wednesday and recognize the city as Israel’s capital, actually fulfilling a campaign pledge many of his predecessors made.

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

President Bill Clinton made Jerusalem a campaign issue in 1992, attacking then-former President George H.W. Bush for having allegedly “repeatedly challenged Israel’s sovereignty over a united Jerusalem” and vowing to move the embassy during his administration.

George W. Bush castigated Clinton for failing to follow through on his embassy promise and vowing to get the process started in his few months in office. Bush never made a concerted effort towards moving the embassy and became embroiled his own Middle East conflicts.

President Barack Obama declared in a 2008 campaign speech, “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.”

President Donald Trump will begin the formal process of moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem Wednesday and recognize the city as Israel’s capital, actually fulfilling a campaign pledge many of his predecessors made.

You might consider reading wdsmo's posts about whataboutism.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

You might consider reading wdsmo's posts about whataboutism.
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I try...it's never easy reading

[Nebe]

My beef with Israel is that we give them billions of dollars a year. Their citizens get.... wait for it.......... free health care and a free education.

Let that sink in.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Gotta make those evangelicals happy!
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Funny, many liberals were in favor of this, they even passed a bill naming Jerusalem the capital ( never signed into law). But when trump does it, it’s evil.

If the jihadists declare a fatwah on math next, or Mozart, are we suddenly afraid to tout those things?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

My beef with Israel is that we give them billions of dollars a year. Their citizens get.... wait for it.......... free health care and a free education.

Let that sink in.
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It’s a tiny country that’s 99 percent white. And for damn sure they don’t have open borders. So not exactly an apples to apples comparison in terms of universal healthcare.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

President Bill Clinton made Jerusalem a campaign issue in 1992, attacking then-former President George H.W. Bush for having allegedly “repeatedly challenged Israel’s sovereignty over a united Jerusalem” and vowing to move the embassy during his administration.

George W. Bush castigated Clinton for failing to follow through on his embassy promise and vowing to get the process started in his few months in office. Bush never made a concerted effort towards moving the embassy and became embroiled his own Middle East conflicts.

President Barack Obama declared in a 2008 campaign speech, “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.”

President Donald Trump will begin the formal process of moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem Wednesday and recognize the city as Israel’s capital, actually fulfilling a campaign pledge many of his predecessors made.

But when obama says it, it’s brilliant. When trump says it, he’s Hitler. Don’t you know that?
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It’s a tiny country that’s 99 percent white. And for damn sure they don’t have open borders. So not exactly an apples to apples comparison in terms of universal healthcare.
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I’m sorry, but universal healthcare means universal health care. And why the F does my tax dollars go to them? They can take care of themselves.
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[wdmso]

what is the up side for the united states...? I see how Trump used it as a look what he did moment for his base... Can the base tell me how this policy change is going benefit the US

[Sea Dangles]

I would like to know how Obama handing over 200000000 dollars to Iran helped the United States.

Oh,that was a good idea because it was Obamas idea right?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I would like to know how Obama handing over 200000000 dollars to Iran helped the United States.

Oh,that was a good idea because it was Obamas idea right?
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It wasn't Obama's idea, it was set long before Obama.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I would like to know how Obama handing over 200000000 dollars to Iran helped the United States.

Oh,that was a good idea because it was Obamas idea right?
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https://www.snopes.com/obama-bribed-...u-s-prisoners/

the $400 million dollar transfer was actually an openly announced one, paid in settlement of a nearly 40-year dispute between Iran and the United States — a settlement that likely saved the United States several billion dollars.

Back in late 1979, after Iranian revolutionaries took 52 Americans hostage at the US Embassy in Tehran, the United States severed diplomatic relations with Iran and froze Iranian assets in America. Among those frozen assets was a $400 million delivery of fighter jets from the U.S. that Iran’s previous government had already paid for.

please excuse all the facts

[Nebe]

But her emails!!!!!
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

what is the up side for the united states...? I see how Trump used it as a look what he did moment for his base... Can the base tell me how this policy change is going benefit the US

This will benefit the US solely by virtue of the fact that all Israeli government is based in Jerusalem whereas TelAviv is an hour way.

There is zero chance our current president gives the Iranians what we rightfully stole from them.
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[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Nebe

And why the F does my tax dollars go to them? They can take care of themselves.
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now you are getting it

I'm sure it is complicated but if they are the only nation that did not get a cut to their aid this year, there must be a good reason.

how about China? can't they take care of themselves? Australia? and on and on and on


https://explorer.usaid.gov/aid-trends.html

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

This will benefit the US solely by virtue of the fact that all Israeli government is based in Jerusalem whereas TelAviv is an hour way.
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This is one of the only things I have heard that makes sense about making this move. Purely a business move.... With a little nod to his daughters' in-laws and their influential friends, who were heavy contributors based on their interest in the state of Israel

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I’m sorry, but universal healthcare means universal health care. And why the F does my tax dollars go to them? They can take care of themselves.
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No it does not. Asking people to pay for their own healthcare, isn’t anywhere near the same as asking people to pay for healthcare for everyone who chooses to stroll into the country. Nebe, is it the same for you to provide for you, as it is for you to open your door and let anyone in who wants free stuff?
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[detbuch]

But Trump is a white supremacist anti-Semite.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

No it does not. Asking people to pay for their own healthcare, isn’t anywhere near the same as asking people to pay for healthcare for everyone who chooses to stroll into the country. Nebe, is it the same for you to provide for you, as it is for you to open your door and let anyone in who wants free stuff?
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You are off your rocker.

Universal health care. And free education for all.
What is it about this that you can not grasp?
Why do we give them billions?
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Their citizens get.... wait for it.......... free health care and a free education.

Let that sink in.

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they don't get free healthcare....they also pay co-pays, there are caps and they buy supplemental private insurance in addition

Wage-earners and the self-employed must pay 3.1% of their monthly salary up to NIS 5,804 and 5% of anything earned above that.[21] Employers are legally obligated to deduct insurance contributions from their employees' salaries, while the self-employed must arrange payment on their own. Pensioners have contributions deducted from their pensions, as do those receiving unemployment benefits. Those who are not working but have income must pay 5% of their income in health premiums, while those who are not working and have no income must pay NIS 170 a month. Only a select few categories of people are exempt from paying health premiums.


college is not free

After secondary education, students are generally conscripted into the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), but may request a postponement of the conscription date to study at a pre-service Mechina, undertake a voluntary service year, or study in a college or university. Those who study in a university at this stage generally do so under a program called atuda, where the tuition for their bachelor's degree is paid for by the army. They are however obliged to sign a contract with the army extending their service by 2–3 years.

[Nebe]

Ok. I still want to k ow why we give them billions of dollars .
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Ok. I still want to k ow why we give them billions of dollars .
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Every year, the United States supports over 100 foreign governments with billions of dollars worth of aid funding. According to the U.S. government, this is done to support global peace, security, and development efforts, and to provide humanitarian relief during times of crisis. Considered vital to U.S. national security, this funding is also allocated for strategic, economic and moral reasons.

The Obama administration has requested Congress allocate $37.9 billion to foreign assistance in the budget for fiscal 2016, the majority of it for governments in the Middle East. The final appropriation could differ significantly. The president requested the largest amount of aid for Israel, some $3.1 billion, primarily in support of peace and security.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Ok. I still want to k ow why we give them billions of dollars .
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We give Egypt nearly as much money. Generally speaking we give them tens of billions of taxpayer dollars so they will buy US military equipment.
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[wdmso]

still haven't seen a compelling argument on up side for Trumps declaration and how this will fundamentally change issues on the ground in the middle east positively

[spence]

Originally Posted by wdmso

still haven't seen a compelling argument on up side for Trumps declaration and how this will fundamentally change issues on the ground in the middle east positively

He did it to toss his evangelical base a bone. That's about it. He's desperate for a hit, even a bloop single.
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[Sea Dangles]

I can see why an issue as simple as this has some of our best contributors confused. They scratch their head when they see a person actually do what they said they were going to do. They wonder how and why when things actually get done.
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