Pay and Pension in the White House

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman;1135767[B

The fastest shrinking states[/B]

4. Connecticut
•1-yr pop. growth rate: -0.23%
•Current population: 3.58 million
•2015 population: 3.58 million
•10-yr pop. growth rate: 1.68%

The population of Connecticut shrank by 0.2% in 2016, the fourth largest decline of any state. Connecticut’s population has declined substantially in recent years, and the state has lost a net total of approximately 20,000 residents since 2013. Many of those leaving Connecticut are young, college-educated professionals. Since 2010, the median age in Connecticut has risen from 40.0 years to 40.9 years.

The population loss has likely hurt the state’s economic potential. While the U.S. GDP grew by 12.1% from the second quarter of 2006 to the second quarter of 2016, Connecticut’s GDP fell by 3.7%, the largest contraction of any state over that time other than Nevada.

CT is in the death spiral. Our population is shrinking as people don't want to pay current taxes. But current taxes aren't anywhere near enough to pay our debt (unfunded debt is now estimated at $35,000 for every human being in the state). So the state will raise taxes. Which will incentivize more people to leave, which will reduce our tax base. Which will force the state to raise taxes on the masochists still here, which will incentivize more to flee, which...

It's a self-perpetuating cycle of decreasing revenue and increasing expenses. They call that the death spiral. in the private sector Very difficult to escape from.

CT has so much going for it. To be one of the few states losing population? That's what "failure" looks like.

[PaulS]

Nashville historically votes liberal. Tenn. conserv. If taxes are your main point, Tenn. wins. Educ. poverty rate, opportunity, etc. Conn wins.

Not a lot of insurance jobs in Tenn.(although I did have a insur. client in Brentwood in a prior job).

States and territories
Rank State Poverty Rate(by Household Income) People in Poverty
by Household Income
(in thousands) 2014 Poverty Rates
(includes unrelated children) Supplemental Poverty Measure (2010-2014 average)
(Geographically Adjusted)
- United States 14.8% 45,950 16.0%[1][2]

4 Connecticut
10.8% 376 10.6% 12.5%

41 Tennessee
18.2% 1,165 16.7% 15.5%

tough to read - sorry


Following from US news and world reports on an overall rating on crime, educ. opportunity, etc.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings

US News and World reports - 2014
Conn - #12
Tenn #39


Fattest states:
Conn: 21.4%
Tenn: 31.6%
fattest state Miss. 33.8%

Life expectancy at birth - Conn near top, Tenn near bottom
bachelors degree or higher - Conn near top, Tenn near bottom

The reddest states have long been the poorest. If the gov. didn't transfer lots of $ to those red states life there would be even worse.


another article';

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/op...y-is-blue.html

[PaulS]

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-mos...vernment/2700/

Tenn #8 on depending on Feds
Conn #42 on depending on Feds.

with an aging pop and more people retireing, people are heading out of colder climates and heading to warmer areas.

I always enjoyed Brentwood (sub. of Nashville). Very affluent area. nice people.

Edit: I would note that the places you mention are all liberal in cons. states.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Nashville historically votes liberal. Tenn. conserv. If taxes are your main point, Tenn. wins. Educ. poverty rate, opportunity, etc. Conn wins.

Not a lot of insurance jobs in Tenn.(although I did have a insur. client in Brentwood in a prior job).

States and territories
Rank State Poverty Rate(by Household Income) People in Poverty
by Household Income
(in thousands) 2014 Poverty Rates
(includes unrelated children) Supplemental Poverty Measure (2010-2014 average)
(Geographically Adjusted)
- United States 14.8% 45,950 16.0%[1][2]

4 Connecticut
10.8% 376 10.6% 12.5%

41 Tennessee
18.2% 1,165 16.7% 15.5%

tough to read - sorry


Following from US news and world reports on an overall rating on crime, educ. opportunity, etc.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings

US News and World reports - 2014
Conn - #12
Tenn #39


Fattest states:
Conn: 21.4%
Tenn: 31.6%
fattest state Miss. 33.8%

Life expectancy at birth - Conn near top, Tenn near bottom
bachelors degree or higher - Conn near top, Tenn near bottom

The reddest states have long been the poorest. If the gov. didn't transfer lots of $ to those red states life there would be even worse.


another article';

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/op...y-is-blue.html

"Educ. poverty rate, opportunity, etc. Conn wins. "

Nope. The marketplace has spoken , and they say you are wrong.

If you look at states as a whole, sure CT wins, we have Fairfield County and they don't. We win because we have a section of our state that's an easy commute to Manhattan.

There are certain cities in the Carolinas and TN that stink (also there are cities in CT that stink). However, there are cities in the Carolinas and TN that compare very well with nice CT suburbs in terms of quality of live, and far lower taxes. That is where many people are moving.

If those places are as crappy as you said, they would not all be on Amazon's list of finalists. Note that CT was bounced in the first round, but TN and NC are among the finalists.

CT liberal elites like to say the south is nothing but meth heads and trailer parks. Not remotely true. Look at Fort Mill SC. Rock bottom prices, and public schools as good as Avon CT. Those are the places we should be trying to emulate, but liberals won't concede they're doing anything better.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Not a lot of insurance jobs in Tenn.(although I did have a insur. client in Brentwood in a prior job).

[/url]

Tele-commuting. Allowing a lot of people to flee CT.

There are tons of math-related jobs in Charlotte, sometimes referred to as the banking capital of the country.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-mos...vernment/2700/

Tenn #8 on depending on Feds
Conn #42 on depending on Feds.

with an aging pop and more people retireing, people are heading out of colder climates and heading to warmer areas.

I always enjoyed Brentwood (sub. of Nashville). Very affluent area. nice people.

Edit: I would note that the places you mention are all liberal in cons. states.

"with an aging pop and more people retireing, people are heading out of colder climates and heading to warmer areas."

If climate was the big driver, why isn't Massachusetts losing population like CT is?

Climate is a part of it, of course. So is cost of living. And what people feel they get for what they pay.

Here in CT, our taxes are now on par with Boston and NYC, but we can't offer what they offer. We can offer what Charlotte and Nashville offer, but way more expensive.

We are a base model Honda Civic, with the price tag of a Lexus. That's a tough sell. If people are willing to pay through the nose, many feel they get more for their dollar in Boston or Manhattan. If people want a small-city feel like we have, there are far cheaper options. CT no longer has any value proposition. None whatsoever.

"I always enjoyed Brentwood (sub. of Nashville). Very affluent area. nice people"

My brother lives in the beautiful Nashville suburb of Franklin. Dirt cheap and beautiful.

"I would note that the places you mention are all liberal in cons. states"

People aren't moving to the liberal cities. People are moving to the suburbs in those states.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Me and the wife have been discussing a move down to NC when we retire in a few years. Have been down there a few times visiting my daughter at school and love it.

Went out to the Asheville area last visit and I can see us out there in a few years. I can sell my house up here and get twice the house for half the money.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Me and the wife have been discussing a move down to NC when we retire in a few years. Have been down there a few times visiting my daughter at school and love it.

Went out to the Asheville area last visit and I can see us out there in a few years. I can sell my house up here and get twice the house for half the money.
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Is she at UNC-Asheville? Beautiful area.

I used to go to the Raleigh/Durham area a few times a year for work. That was a hopping, booming area with the big schools.

I know a little about the Charlotte suburbs, enough to know they are cheap and booming.

Going to the Outer Banks this summer for the first time ever, cannot wait.

I love what I have seen of NC. You get the low taxes and milder weather, without the culture shock of the deep south. There are places in NC where you might never hear a southern accent, because everybody is a tax refugee from New England.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

People aren't moving to the liberal cities. People are moving to the suburbs in those states.

the liberal cities are the driving economic force in those areas.
austin is booming Texas as a whole has been hurting. Charlotte is booming North Carolina isn't doing as well as a whole. Nashville is booming, etc. Etc. People are moving there because of those liberal cities. They want to be near them otherwise your brother would have moved a hundred miles outside of Nashville or other similar City
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Tele-commuting. Allowing a lot of people to flee CT.

There are tons of math-related jobs in Charlotte, sometimes referred to as the banking capital of the country.

And Charlotte is liberal
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And Charlotte is liberal
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You sure? The taxes are dirt cheap and they don’t give unions a blank check.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

the liberal cities are the driving economic force in those areas.
austin is booming Texas as a whole has been hurting. Charlotte is booming North Carolina isn't doing as well as a whole. Nashville is booming, etc. Etc. People are moving there because of those liberal cities. They want to be near them otherwise your brother would have moved a hundred miles outside of Nashville or other similar City
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Why are people from CT moving all the way down there to be near liberal cities, when there are plenty of liberal cities here to choose from? Low taxes maybe?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And Charlotte is liberal
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So is Asheville, in that county Clinton beat Trump by 14 points...as did most cities in NC or by more...I think in CLT she was up by 30.

I guess the next question would be if Trump's base is benefiting from the current economic environment or if it's mostly going to the Dems.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And Charlotte is liberal
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Democrat in the the south, doesn’t always mean liberal. And you say that Nashville and Charlotte are booming, but not the suburbs? Hate to disagree with you. Most people are moving to the suburbs, and many of the nicest suburbs are absolutely white hot.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

So is Asheville, in that county Clinton beat Trump by 14 points...as did most cities in NC or by more...I think in CLT she was up by 30.

I guess the next question would be if Trump's base is benefiting from the current economic environment or if it's mostly going to the Dems.

I keep hearing its only trumps base that's benefiting from his policies. You just make stuff up as you go along now? You fault the gop because 51 is less than 60, now you are concerned that only liberals are benefitting from trumps policies?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I keep hearing its only trumps base that's benefiting from his policies. You just make stuff up as you go along now? You fault the gop because 51 is less than 60, now you are concerned that only liberals are benefitting from trumps policies?
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The base that elected trump doesn't seem to be benefiting from his current policy.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

The base that elected trump doesn't seem to be benefiting from his current policy.
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Who would that be exactly? Because people who work and have IRAs and pay taxes, are doing insanely well. Stock market up, unemployment down, tax rates down, companies giving bonuses and raises. Who do you suppose his base is? Who isn’t benefitting, exactly? I’m all ears.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Why are people from CT moving all the way down there to be near liberal cities, when there are plenty of liberal cities here to choose from? Low taxes maybe?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

A number of reasons including low taxes. But they sure as hell aren't moving to the hills of North Carolina or Tennessee for example that are not near a liberal City.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Democrat in the the south, doesn’t always mean liberal. And you say that Nashville and Charlotte are booming, but not the suburbs? Hate to disagree with you. Most people are moving to the suburbs, and many of the nicest suburbs are absolutely white hot.
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I agree liberal-conservative certainly doesn't mean the same down south as it as up north. But again when someone from Connecticut decides to move to Tennessee they look at Nashville and then the surrounding area. They don't look for a area that is not near Nashville.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

A number of reasons including low taxes. But they sure as hell aren't moving to the hills of North Carolina or Tennessee for example that are not near a liberal City.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Correct they aren’t moving to hillbilly country. my Point is this..there are cities that offer all the attractive things that CT offers, at far less cost. Not all southern cities offer a comparable quality of life but some do. Those places are beating us.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I agree liberal-conservative certainly doesn't mean the same down south as it as up north. But again when someone from Connecticut decides to move to Tennessee they look at Nashville and then the surrounding area. They don't look for a area that is not near Nashville.
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For the same reason that most people in CT don’t live in the boonies. Many people like to be near a city for restaurants, music, sports, healthcare, etc. I don’t think it’s the politics of Nashville and Charlotte that attracts people. It’s the fact that it’s a city. Most people
Like suburbs not remote rural areas
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Is she at UNC-Asheville? Beautiful area.

I used to go to the Raleigh/Durham area a few times a year for work. That was a hopping, booming area with the big schools.

I know a little about the Charlotte suburbs, enough to know they are cheap and booming.

Going to the Outer Banks this summer for the first time ever, cannot wait.

I love what I have seen of NC. You get the low taxes and milder weather, without the culture shock of the deep south. There are places in NC where you might never hear a southern accent, because everybody is a tax refugee from New England.

She's in her 3rd year at Wake Forest, we went out there for Parents weekend and tacked on a few extra days to visit friends out in Asheville that just moved down there outta MA. Also hooked up with another friend down in Charlotte....who also moved outta MA a few years ago.

Asheville had that whole Portland ME vibe to it. they have a great Music scene, great restaurants, and of course great beer.

Really liked Charlotte as well, pretty clean city that offers sports and great BBQ. :-) Wouldn't want to live there because I'm not a fan of city living, but is a nice option to have relatively close by.

I'm sure, just like any state, they have their $hithole areas (yeah, I used THAT word ) but for the whole of what we saw we liked it.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

A number of reasons including low taxes. But they sure as hell aren't moving to the hills of North Carolina or Tennessee for example that are not near a liberal City.
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As far as NC goes the "Hills" of North Carolina is where Ashville is located and that area is on the upswing. Sierra Nevada just opened up a brand new State of the art Green brewery in Mills River just 10 minutes outside Ashville that created 100's of jobs. Oskar Blues just opened up a new east coast brewery in Brevard, which is about 30 minutes outside Ashville.

Its becoming an area for a lot of small business growth as well. it is definitely not hillbilly area by any stretch, the growth is actually being fueled more by millennials than anything else, I'll just have to look past the Man-bun

[PaulS]

Ashville is very liberal and expensive by NC standards, cheap by New England standards.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Ashville is very liberal and expensive by NC standards, cheap by New England standards.

I couldn't care less, I care about getting more bang for my buck.

I live in friggin Massachusetts for gods sake, you think I'm worried about mingling with liberals.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I couldn't care less, I care about getting more bang for my buck.

I live in friggin Massachusetts for gods sake, you think I'm worried about mingling with liberals.
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No, I don't think you care at all. Prob. never enters your mind. Can't say the same about Jim. I think it consumes him.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Ashville is very liberal and expensive by NC standards, cheap by New England standards.

Which is why they are clobbering New England.

[PaulS]

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;1135776
If those places are as crappy as you said, they would not all be on Amazon's list of finalists. Note that CT was bounced in the first round, but TN and NC are among the finalists.

[/QUOTE]

And all of the 20 cities (except I think Indiapolis) are liberal. So which of the following 20 cities do you think are conservative? I've entered my guesses.

Austin, Tex. – liberal
Boston– liberal
Chicago– liberal
Columbus, Ohio – Voted 80% for Obama
Dallas – 2nd most liberal city in Texas after Austin
Denver– liberal
Indianapolis - conservative
Los Angeles– liberal
Miami – leans liberal
Montgomery County, Md. – liberal
Nashville– liberal
Newark– liberal
New York– liberal
Northern Virginia– liberal
Philadelphia– liberal
Pittsburgh– liberal
Raleigh, N.C. – liberal
Toronto– liberal
Washington– liberal

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Which is why they are clobbering New England.

Austin is Liberal.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

She's in her 3rd year at Wake Forest, we went out there for Parents weekend and tacked on a few extra days to visit friends out in Asheville that just moved down there outta MA. Also hooked up with another friend down in Charlotte....who also moved outta MA a few years ago.

Asheville had that whole Portland ME vibe to it. they have a great Music scene, great restaurants, and of course great beer.

Really liked Charlotte as well, pretty clean city that offers sports and great BBQ. :-) Wouldn't want to live there because I'm not a fan of city living, but is a nice option to have relatively close by.

I'm sure, just like any state, they have their $hithole areas (yeah, I used THAT word ) but for the whole of what we saw we liked it.

Wake Forest is an awesome school. Congratulations, you all did a lot of things right, for her to end up there.

Sure, the Carolinas have their awful areas, as do CT and Mass. But unlike CT and Mass, they also have great areas that are much cheaper than anything you can find in CT or Mass. CT doesn't have a singe city that's (1) a great place to live, and (2) has low taxes and a low cost of living.

That's the advantage that the Carolinas offer, and they are taking advantage of it, to the detriment of CT. Our tax revenue is decreasing because people are leaving. But our expenses are increasing at the same time. Worst combination.

This summer, my 11 year-old has a big karate tournament in Greensboro. We'll spend 2 days there, then 2 days in the Charlotte suburbs to see a friend who fled CT for NC, then to the Outer Banks for a week.

TDF, you know what I've heard about Charlotte? On the outskirts of the city are areas that look and feel like suburbs, but are technically still part of the city. I don't know why more cities don't do that, I would imagine a lot of people would like to live on a suburban type street but be very close to the downtown.

I'm a huge fan of BBQ, looking forward to trying some in NC this summer.