Remember that planned parenthood video ?

[Jim in CT]

"Let me be clear. The pro-life movement is a movement of peace. We cannot condemn all pro-life people because of the actions of a few extremists who distort its message. We are not at war with the pro-life movement, which is one of the world's great movements." -what President Obama did not say and will never say about pro-lifers, at least the ones who aren't Muslims

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So generally speaking, what videos are resulting in murders?

Generally speaking about the cycle of violence that continually targets Planned Parenthood. The videos were certainly created in a manipulative to spark outrage and we've already seen threats, arson etc… The killer here may be nuts but I doubt he thought he was walking into a 7-11.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Generally speaking about the cycle of violence that continually targets Planned Parenthood. The videos were certainly created in a manipulative to spark outrage and we've already seen threats, arson etc… The killer here may be nuts but I doubt he thought he was walking into a 7-11.

"the cycle of violence that continually targets Planned Parenthood"

Continually? Not to downplay the horror of this recent event, but how often is there serious violence at Planned Parenthood? Once every few years? That's "continuous"?

"The videos were certainly created in a manipulative to spark outrage "

Outrage, yes. Violence, no.

" doubt he thought he was walking into a 7-11"

Agreed. But can we be honest? How many people have been murdered at abortion clinics since Roe V Wade became law? 25? One every couple of years? Hardly continuous. It's despicable, but hardly continuous.

First you said a video about lying was inspiring murder, then you said you were merely speaking in general terms, now you're being fairly specific again. Highly speculative, and very specific.

[ecduzitgood]

When were there any attacks on Hospital delivery rooms by pro choice minded folks?
Any attacks causing property or personal injury against planned parenthood is to me terrorism. Compared to other health related businesses the use of the term frequency seems appropriate to me seeing as we aren't talking about one incident directed at planned parenthood.
Do you find the attacks appropriate and or acceptable?
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[Sea Dangles]

My guess is he heard voices
And he is from the Catskills.

I think Jim is confusing the word constant with continuous.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

First you said a video about lying was inspiring murder, then you said you were merely speaking in general terms, now you're being fairly specific again. Highly speculative, and very specific.

I think the list of death threats, murders, arson etc… that PP has had to deal with over the last 40 years speak for itself. You do understand why that clinic had police protection there on that day right?

It's ok to be against abortion, but the propaganda is going to incite the crazies, and if the propaganda is disingenuous then there's some liability to share around.

[Nebe]

I heard the largest hate group in the US is.........


Wait for it.....


The Republican Party !
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

When were there any attacks on Hospital delivery rooms by pro choice minded folks?
Any attacks causing property or personal injury against planned parenthood is to me terrorism. Compared to other health related businesses the use of the term frequency seems appropriate to me seeing as we aren't talking about one incident directed at planned parenthood.
Do you find the attacks appropriate and or acceptable?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"When were there any attacks on Hospital delivery rooms by pro choice minded folks?"

Never.

"Any attacks causing property or personal injury against planned parenthood is to me terrorism"

Agreed. I m an anti-abortion Catholic, but have to call this what it is - terrorism. It's also, in the case of violence against people, very rare, thank God, and it's not something condoned by any Christian group that anyone is aware of, there's no organized movement here, just a kook every few years.

"Do you find the attacks appropriate and or acceptable?"

I find it deplorable, totally contrary to the belief in being pro-life. It's also rare (thankfully). Yet you won't here Obama giving Christians the same benefit he gives to peaceful Muslims, he won't tell people that we aren't at war with all pro-life folks. Why is that, do you think?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I think the list of death threats, murders, arson etc… that PP has had to deal with over the last 40 years speak for itself. You do understand why that clinic had police protection there on that day right?

It's ok to be against abortion, but the propaganda is going to incite the crazies, and if the propaganda is disingenuous then there's some liability to share around.

Lots of elementary schools now have armed guards. Is there continual violence against schools, or is it rare?

"It's ok to be against abortion"

I'm glad you concede I have that right.

"the propaganda is going to incite the crazies"

99% of the pro-life speech isn't going to incite anyone to be violent. Is it more leading to violence, then Black Lives Matter chanting "what do we want? DEAD COPS! When do we want it? NOW."

That's a wee bit more direct of a call to violence, than 99% of the anti-abortion language you hear. But no one is expecting you to concede that.

You want to say that the rhetoric is getting uglier, I agree. No shortage of it on your side, either. If you are opposed to abortion, it's not because you have empathy for the unborn, it's because you are waging war on women. If you say the entitlements need to be overhauled, it's because you hate poor people. If you believe in the power of the free market to provide upward economic mobility, you only care about Wall Street fatcats. Our president saying "Republicans gotta stop just hatin' all the time". Yeah, John McCain and Mitt Romney are a couple of real hatemongers.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I think Jim is confusing the word constant with continuous.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

And once again, you know zip,

From Websters. continuous - WITHOUT INTERRUPTION.

We go years at a time (thankfully) without violence against abortion providers. How is that "without interruption"?

Threats that need to be taken seriously? Sure (and that's a tragedy). Actual acts of violence? Extremely rare. Hardly continuous.

I await your explanation of how I am wrong.

[Sea Dangles]

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I won't say you are wrong because I think this is a matter of perspective. Curious to know how you would describe the Palestinian/Israeli conflict as they sometimes go months or years without violence yet it seems continuous to me as it never really goes away. So I will say you are right because I know how much it means to you with your little boy mentality.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

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I won't say you are wrong because I think this is a matter of perspective. Curious to know how you would describe the Palestinian/Israeli conflict as they sometimes go months or years without violence yet it seems continuous to me as it never really goes away. So I will say you are right because I know how much it means to you with your little boy mentality.

I'll say one thing for Jim, I have never seen somebody ask to be proven wrong so many times in his posts and never get a clearly written rebuttal in return .
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[Sea Dangles]

Please tell me what part was not clearly written and I will attempt to make it easier for you to understand.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

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I won't say you are wrong because I think this is a matter of perspective. Curious to know how you would describe the Palestinian/Israeli conflict as they sometimes go months or years without violence yet it seems continuous to me as it never really goes away. So I will say you are right because I know how much it means to you with your little boy mentality.

"I think this is a matter of perspective."

Well, that's not what you said, you said I was confusing oh the hell with it.

"how you would describe the Palestinian/Israeli conflict as they sometimes go months or years without violence"

I would describe it as not remotely comparable to the Christian/Planned Parenthood conflict, which only becomes a "conflict" every few years when a kook snaps. There are organized, large groups in Palestine that want to annihilate Israel. Apples and oranges.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

I'll say one thing for Jim, I have never seen somebody ask to be proven wrong so many times in his posts and never get a clearly written rebuttal in return .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The reason Jim has to ask so many times is because he's intolerant to facts and just keeps repeating the same discredited lines.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"I think this is a matter of perspective."

Well, that's not what you said, you said I was confusing oh the hell with it.

"how you would describe the Palestinian/Israeli conflict as they sometimes go months or years without violence"

I would describe it as not remotely comparable to the Christian/Planned Parenthood conflict, which only becomes a "conflict" every few years when a kook snaps. There are organized, large groups in Palestine that want to annihilate Israel. Apples and oranges.

So now you have made my point for me in a format that fits your narrative. Semantics aside,you still seem confused despite conceding they are both befitting your definition.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Please tell me what part was not clearly written and I will attempt to make it easier for you to understand.
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It's not necessary . I'm really not interested . It was a generalization .
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[Sea Dangles]

Didn't think so
You just got smarter, yay
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

The reason Jim has to ask so many times is because he's intolerant to facts .

Said the guy who, on this thread, claimed that dishonest videos are leading to murder. Is that based on facts? Which facts support that claim?

Also from the guy whose candidate (1) claimed that Bill didn't cheat on her, but was rather that victim of a vast right wing conspiracy, and (2) lied through her teeth about coming under sniper fire in Bosnia. Yet you won't call her a liar. It would therefore seem that your concern over the facts is, how shall we say, quite selective.

Again, don't respond to what I'm saying, but rather, lob insults.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

So now you have made my point for me in a format that fits your narrative. Semantics aside,you still seem confused despite conceding they are both befitting your definition.
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I wasn't framing around any narrative. You said I was confused about the definition of continuous. Not remotely true. Then you, I think, compared anti-abortion violence (once every few years, a total of what, 20 deaths?) to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. That's a ridiculous comparison.

Violence at abortion clinics isn't "continuous". It happens once every few years. One of us is very confused about the meaning of the word "continuous", but it's not me. When have the Palestinians gone "years" without inflicting violence on their Jewish neighbors? Enlighten me, please.

[Sea Dangles]

You are having trouble with the context of the discussion and once again your hubris won't allow you to see beyond your agenda. Your insecurity is what is most endearing as usual.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

You are having trouble with the context of the discussion and once again your hubris won't allow you to see beyond your agenda. Your insecurity is what is most endearing as usual.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'm surprised he hasn't started cackling about this act of terrorism happening on Obama's watch.

Here's an incomplete list…I'd note that death threats, bombings, break-ins, shootings, bio-terror etc… are all violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

It must be nice volunteering your time to help a poor woman get a cancer screening and not knowing if there's a bomb waiting for you, or perhaps a little anthrax in the mail.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm surprised he hasn't started cackling about this act of terrorism happening on Obama's watch.

Here's an incomplete list…I'd note that death threats, bombings, break-ins, shootings, bio-terror etc… are all violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

It must be nice volunteering your time to help a poor woman get a cancer screening and not knowing if there's a bomb waiting for you, or perhaps a little anthrax in the mail.

I believe Jim has stated over and over how horrible it was. What's your point Spence? How often? I would say not often even though even once is too much . The man involved in this incident clearly has a mental health issue . That little detail will be left out of your
narrative
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

I believe Jim has stated over and over how horrible it was. What's your point Spence? How often? I would say not often even though even once is too much . The man involved in this incident clearly has a mental health issue . That little detail will be left out of your
narrative
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I already said he may be crazy, that actually makes the disingenuous videos even worse. Jim is discounting the violence targeted at PP clinics. My point is spot on.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I already said he may be crazy, that actually makes the disingenuous videos even worse. Jim is discounting the violence targeted at PP clinics. My point is spot on.

Spence did say the guy was likely a nut.

I'm not discounting anything. I said, correctly, that a couple of dozen people have been murdered by pro-life terrorists in the last 45 years. You called the violence "continuous". I said that the facts don't seem to back that up.

Dangles said that the violence against Jews has taken a break, at times, for "years" at a time.I asked him to tell us when, exactly, the Palestinians went "years" without inflicting violence. He didn't respond,

You said the video inspired murders. Dangles said violence in Israel sometime goes quiet for "years". I asked each of you to support those clams, and instead of responding, you hurl insults.

Truth hurts, eh?

[buckman]

[QUOTE=spence;1087427]I already said he may be crazy, that actually makes the disingenuous videos even worse. Jim is discounting the violence targeted at PP clinics. My point is spot on.[/QUOTE

Jim never discounted the violence targeted a PP clinics . I haven't read that anywhere here although my comprehension level probably isn't up to some of those here that are very impressed with them selves .
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'm not discounting anything. I said, correctly, that a couple of dozen people have been murdered by pro-life terrorists in the last 45 years. You called the violence "continuous". I said that the facts don't seem to back that up.

Sure you are…read the link, there's a continuous history of threats and attacks.

Dangles said that the violence against Jews has taken a break, at times, for "years" at a time.I asked him to tell us when, exactly, the Palestinians went "years" without inflicting violence. He didn't respond,

He's like a cat.

You said the video inspired murders. Dangles said violence in Israel sometime goes quiet for "years". I asked each of you to support those clams, and instead of responding, you hurl insults.

Truth hurts, eh?

At this point would you wager that the accused shooter, who has admitted to the police he's anti-abortion and anti-government, and who's widely being reported as speaking about politics and "no more baby parts" afterward, was just some random crank?

I wouldn't be making that bet.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Sure you are…read the link, there's a continuous history of threats and attacks.


He's like a cat.


At this point would you wager that the accused shooter, who has admitted to the police he's anti-abortion and anti-government, and who's widely being reported as speaking about politics and "no more baby parts" afterward, was just some random crank?

I wouldn't be making that bet.

I would say you're probably right on that. I believe he also has a mental illness . Care to wager?
What's sad and gets lost in this conversation is all the aborted babies. For those that believe they are living beings , it has to be terrible heartbreaking . You can't take that away from them or make them feel better by calling it a choice.
Perhaps the videos were edited but it certainly shows the cold hearts behind some of those in PP although I'm sure that isnt true of all .
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[Sea Dangles]

Exaggeration to emphasize a point has a name,hyperbole.

The point was lost on some folks who have trouble following a bouncing ball.
Try making that wrong is what I say here. Stop getting lost in the numbers and understand the comparison is only to inspire you to think with an open mind. I should have known better.
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[buckman]

From 1973-2010, 421 women have died as a result of legal abortion (CDC).
I guess we can say women consistently die from abortion .
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