Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Today's Posts Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Build Stuff: Custom Plug & Lure Building, Rod Building » Rod Building

Rod Building So, you've landed a nice fish on a plug you made, eh? Now, the next step, building your own RODS!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-13-2016, 09:24 PM   #1
Fergal
Drew
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 393
Guide Weights: Torzite vs Alconite KW

For any one that might care, all weights in grams.

Torzite
30 - 5.77
25 - 4.00
20 - 2.22
12 - 0.83
8 - 0.39
Entire set: 30-25-20-12-8x4 = 14.43

Alconite
30 - 11.09
25 - 7.43
20 - 3.95
12 - 1.57
8 - 0.67
Entire set: 30-25-20-12-8x4 = 26.71
Fergal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2016, 10:28 PM   #2
chefchris401
Chris Blouin
iTrader: (4)
 
chefchris401's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Warren, RI
Posts: 3,330
Good info

What's the price per set ?

If I remember correctly the torzites are 2 to 3 times the price

1/2oz over an 11ft rod doesn't seem like much difference
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
chefchris401 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2016, 07:04 AM   #3
Fergal
Drew
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 393
Pricey, not I do not think it would matter.
Fergal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2016, 08:46 AM   #4
numbskull
Oblivious // Grunt, Grunt Master
iTrader: (0)
 
numbskull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: over the hill
Posts: 6,682
Are those titanium Torzites vs SS alconites or are both frames the same material?

1/2 oz does matter, although how much depends on the blank's weight and action. Put them on a Harnell and you'd not notice, put them on a Loomis steelhead blank and you'd have a totally different rod.

Hang a 2 oz plug on a rod and hold it out straight. How much does it bend......not much, right? Now look at the shape of the rod during a cast with the same 2 oz plug. How much does it bend.......a lot, right?
How much weight do you need to put on a rod held out strait to bend it as much as 2oz during a cast? Turns out is around 3-5lbs. So those 2 oz are magnified 15-20X during a cast. In other words during peak load on the blank that extra 1/2 oz turns into the equivalent of 1 pound In actuality the load is less because the extra weight is spread along the blank rather than hung from the tip but you get the idea

The rod has to unload against and accelerate this extra mass so 1/2 oz of extra guide weight reduces the maximum potential distance of the cast for any given effort. You have to accelerate that extra pound as well so if you put a maximum effort into the cast you can not move the rod as fast (think how much harder it is to cast a 4 oz plug vs a 3oz plug and you get the idea). Additionally, that extra mass stays on the rod after you release your cast and increases reverberation which can cost distance.

Finally, there is the issue of rod balance. An extra 1/2 oz out the rod requires either a longer butt or heavier reel to balance, or it requires your arm muscles to work harder to counteract the increased tip weight. If you retrieve with the rod straight up and down it is less of an issue, but if you work plugs with the rod off to the side it adds up quick.

Basically, there is no downside other than cost to light guides. For a soft blank like a 1201L using light guides makes a huge difference. For a stiffer rod like a 1205, not so much.

One closing note. You can also cut guide weight by using smaller rather than expensive lighter guides. A surf rod built 25H-12H-8m-8's with alconite will probably fish as light as one built 30-25-20-12-10's with more expensive guides.
numbskull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2016, 12:17 PM   #5
chefchris401
Chris Blouin
iTrader: (4)
 
chefchris401's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Warren, RI
Posts: 3,330
George your post are always very informative!

Guess I should have been clearer on the 1/2oz not making a difference.

Does make a huge difference on lighter blanks or lighter rods, wasn't sure what size rod/model he was planning on using them on.

I've been using a 25 as my first guide and doing size 6 runners where I can, only an issue when/if I have to restring on a rock in the surf

I had the torzite titaniums on my 11ft cts and that rod weighed nothing, too bad it broke and their CS sucks but that's another story
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
chefchris401 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2016, 07:40 AM   #6
Fergal
Drew
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 393
I have used them(torzite) on a few rods.I have a 10' 1-3 CTS VT, the 30 and 25 are double foots, singles the rest of the way. It seems to make a difference on that rod. I have also used them for the runners on other rods. For instance alconite 30-25-20 then torzite the rest of the way. My thought process being that lighter guides out near the tip might make a bit of a difference. Now that I see the actual weights, don't think its that much. Probably not a difference on a 2-6 type rod, and maybe but still probably not a difference on a 1-4 rod.
Fergal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2016, 12:47 PM   #7
pbadad
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
pbadad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: North Branford,Ct.
Posts: 7,588
I've been waiting for the RV guides to come in an affordable material. They have torzite and alconite now but still ti frames. No SS. I guess their waiting to sell more high end frame guides b/4 offering SS. Building a 1-3 Lami Infinity 10'. KT 8's for runners torzite and reduction in rv and Km frame.

Billy D.
pbadad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2016, 07:11 AM   #8
pbadad
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
pbadad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: North Branford,Ct.
Posts: 7,588
I got to find me an inexpensive scale that weighs grams to the hundreds.

Billy D.
pbadad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2016, 10:17 AM   #9
chefchris401
Chris Blouin
iTrader: (4)
 
chefchris401's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Warren, RI
Posts: 3,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbadad View Post
I got to find me an inexpensive scale that weighs grams to the hundreds.
Most gas stations carry em now, for "mailing" usually near the "tobacco" pipes

That's where I got mine $20-25 does grams,oz and two other weights
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

STORMR Pro Staff Member
chefchris401 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2016, 01:47 PM   #10
pbadad
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
pbadad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: North Branford,Ct.
Posts: 7,588
i have 2 but they don't weigh to the tenths or hundreds, i.e. kt8 doesn't even register on my scale. i have to put a few on then divide to find an average weight. i'll check that out.

Billy D.
pbadad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2016, 08:05 PM   #11
Fergal
Drew
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbadad View Post
I got to find me an inexpensive scale that weighs grams to the hundreds.
try amazon. mine was ~$13 i think.
Fergal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2016, 09:55 AM   #12
numbskull
Oblivious // Grunt, Grunt Master
iTrader: (0)
 
numbskull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: over the hill
Posts: 6,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergal View Post
For any one that might care, all weights in grams.

Torzite
30 - 5.77
25 - 4.00
20 - 2.22
12 - 0.83
8 - 0.39
Entire set: 30-25-20-12-8x4 = 14.43

Alconite
30 - 11.09
25 - 7.43
20 - 3.95
12 - 1.57
8 - 0.67
Entire set: 30-25-20-12-8x4 = 26.71
Out of curiosity I priced these sets out.

Titanium torzite = $268
SS Alconite = $44

I'm not implying any judgement here.
numbskull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2016, 07:33 AM   #13
ed morini
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
ed morini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: holliston,ma
Posts: 120
Boy does that put things in perspective. I think I will try some LAG guides for weight reduction.
I must confess that I did build George's 120 1L lowrider, for me only (2011 I think)with a couple of mods, it was expensive for me, but man what a set up. very light running section and a great performer. The lighter tip section was a real eyeopener.
ed morini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2017, 06:41 AM   #14
numbskull
Oblivious // Grunt, Grunt Master
iTrader: (0)
 
numbskull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: over the hill
Posts: 6,682
RV Torzites 25-16-KW10m-KW8x7runners = 12.2 grams
Cost about $320
numbskull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2017, 12:33 PM   #15
pbadad
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
pbadad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: North Branford,Ct.
Posts: 7,588
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by numbskull View Post
RV Torzites 25-16-KW10m-KW8x7runners = 12.2 grams
Cost about $320
George just think, it's still cheaper than a boat! LOL

Billy D.
pbadad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2017, 07:39 PM   #16
numbskull
Oblivious // Grunt, Grunt Master
iTrader: (0)
 
numbskull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: over the hill
Posts: 6,682
Got a set, Billy, to build a gift rod for a generous friend. I simply can't believe how light they are. Pick up the whole set and it feels like nothing (actually weigh less than 1/2 oz). Gonna be spoilers for sure
.
numbskull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2017, 07:56 PM   #17
pbadad
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
pbadad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: North Branford,Ct.
Posts: 7,588
Let me know how the 10M matches the choke guide . I did a rod last year bought both 10 &12 M 's. Ended up using the 12m. Not rapid choke but a NGC layout. All ti's. RV25, 16, 12M K8 runners. Low weight for sure. Casted and fished excellent.

Billy D.
pbadad is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com