No gun problem in the US

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

We MUST find a way. Problem is the effort to find a way isn't being made.



True

i agree we must try, too many little coffins. but it will be abused.

we also need to start electing a different kind of politician. Normal, productive, decent people.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i agree we must try, too many little coffins. but it will be abused.

we also need to start electing a different kind of politician. Normal, productive, decent people.
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Now you think morals and decency count?

Remember. If the shooter is:
•Black: He's a thug
•Immigrant: He's an illegal
•Muslim: He's a terrorist
•White: He's had a rough childhood & was bullied & girls never gave him a chance & he kept to himself & loved puppies & we must spend more on mental health.

ITS. THE. GUNS.

Mericuh
Land of the gun
Home of the grave.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

He made his escape in a Honda Fit, so at least he was concerned about the environment
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Wow all ready saw that original thought over a newsmax with the rest of regular denial crowd ..

Shocking
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by JohnR

It's about your Constitutional Rights, exercising your Constitutional Rights, and the restrictions imposed on those rights. How do we effectively hamper only those that need restriction, rather than restricting everyone while only, maybe, occasionally, excepting need.

Like I said window dressing the rights been twisting the 2A argument for decades

It’s odd I have said own as many guns as you want and certain guns should be controlled and licensed accordingly

But the 2A extremist live in this fantasy that that’s an infringement of their rights and all roads lead to confiscation …


When was the last time you saw a Elmer Fudd at a 2 A rally ?

All I see are clowns in tactical gear with their tricked out weapons playing dress up. Mean while responsible gun owners like myself just sit back shaking their heads .. seeing 2A hijacked

Because that’s the image the extreme 2A groups want to present …. We are armed and dangerous

It’s pure selfishness . that’s how I see it .
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Wow all ready saw that original thought over a newsmax with the rest of regular denial crowd ..

Shocking
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You spend a lot more time on Newsmax than I do, only thing I go there for is reruns of Last Man Standing.

It was sarcasm which, for some reason, escapes your agile mind.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

You spend a lot more time on Newsmax than I do, only thing I go there for is reruns of Last Man Standing.

It was sarcasm which, for some reason, escapes your agile mind.
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It’s the best place to observe the Trump and Maga cult in the wild

Sure it was sarcasm .. the guy just killed 6 people
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[Jim in CT]

here it is. really lousy parents. shocker.

we can’t get rid of the guns. We can love our kids.

How many mass murderers grew up in a house with a mom and a dad who were absolutely committed to the kids, everyone loves each other, went to church some sundays, ate dinner together most nights with electronics turned off?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/highland-...s-former-coach
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

here it is. really lousy parents. shocker.

we can’t get rid of the guns. We can love our kids.

How many mass murderers grew up in a house with a mom and a dad who were absolutely committed to the kids, everyone loves each other, went to church some sundays, ate dinner together most nights with electronics turned off?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/highland-...s-former-coach
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Wow you really think society as a whole is suddenly going to revert back to the 50’s family life style? Good dream while your sleeping, but if anything this country is more and more demanding on parents trying to earn a living and kids subject to crap that impacts their mental health and you can’t eliminate either pressure. The depth of gun violence in this country and the fact it’s just getting worse and more frequent is a sad statement on the American dream. You don’t want big brother watching you and even if you can monitor the internet traffic for troubled souls, plenty off the grid can still easily access high powered weapons. Guns remain the main issue.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Wow you really think society as a whole is suddenly going to revert back to the 50’s family life style? Good dream while your sleeping, but if anything this country is more and more demanding on parents trying to earn a living and kids subject to crap that impacts their mental health and you can’t eliminate either pressure. The depth of gun violence in this country and the fact it’s just getting worse and more frequent is a sad statement on the American dream. You don’t want big brother watching you and even if you can monitor the internet traffic for troubled souls, plenty off the grid can still easily access high powered weapons. Guns remain the main issue.

i never ever said i thought that was going to happen. i said that the further away we get from that, the more f-cked up we are. i don’t see us ever going back, which is synonymous with saying i don’t see it getting better.

That 1950s style family unit, you know what? it worked on a whole lot of levels.

You also didn’t answer my question ( how many future mass murderers grew up in that scenario), and the reason you dodged, is because you know the answer, but it doesn’t serve your political agenda. so you ignored it.

you say we can’t relieve the pressure on parents or kids? Bullsh-t. My wife has been home for 12 years, we pulled that off by living within a lifestyle that we can afford on my salary. We sold our boat, our vacations are camping, one of our cars is a 13 year old
minivan, and we don’t go out drinking, gambling, spending money. We chose not to live in a way that guarantees pressure on both of us to make a living. It can be done. It involves sacrifice and not caring about possessions.

You say you can’t ease the pressure on kids to reduce how much they’re exposed to things that hurt them mentally?

BULLSH-T.

Parents, at least good parents, can significantly reduce that. but it takes work. talk to your kids, play with them, instead of letting them
spend 12 hours a day online while you gold or shop. it takes a ton of work. but it’s the job of parenting.

Based in your post, i’m glad i wasn’t your kid. You can reduce those pressures, but it takes sacrifice and work, two things liberals aren’t exactly known for.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i never ever said i thought that was going to happen. i said that the further away we get from that, the more f-cked up we are. i don’t see us ever going back, which is synonymous with saying i don’t see it getting better.

That 1950s style family unit, you know what? it worked on a whole lot of levels.

You also didn’t answer my question ( how many future mass murderers grew up in that scenario), and the reason you dodged, is because you know the answer, but it doesn’t serve your political agenda. so you ignored it.

you say we can’t relieve the pressure on parents or kids? Bullsh-t. My wife has been home for 12 years, we pulled that off by living within a lifestyle that we can afford on my salary. We sold our boat, our vacations are camping, one of our cars is a 13 year old
minivan, and we don’t go out drinking, gambling, spending money. We chose not to live in a way that guarantees pressure on both of us to make a living. It can be done. It involves sacrifice and not caring about possessions.

You say you can’t ease the pressure on kids to reduce how much they’re exposed to things that hurt them mentally?

BULLSH-T.

Parents, at least good parents, can significantly reduce that. but it takes work. talk to your kids, play with them, instead of letting them
spend 12 hours a day online while you gold or shop. it takes a ton of work. but it’s the job of parenting.

Based in your post, i’m glad i wasn’t your kid. You can reduce those pressures, but it takes sacrifice and work, two things liberals aren’t exactly known for.
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I don’t disagree with you Jim, what I’m saying is the reality is Parents have forgotten how to parent and it’s likely never going to reverse course. So if you agree that sadly is the case, the main problem remains, guns, guns and more guns. How does a kid who got knives and swords taken away because family reported him, can then turn around two years later and legally (big problem) buy all those weapons. He isn’t going dear or duck hunting, but we can’t legislate real impactful gun legislation.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I don’t disagree with you Jim, what I’m saying is the reality is Parents have forgotten how to parent and it’s likely never going to reverse course. So if you agree that sadly is the case, the main problem remains, guns, guns and more guns. How does a kid who got knives and swords taken away because family reported him, can then turn around two years later and legally (big problem) buy all those weapons. He isn’t going dear or duck hunting, but we can’t legislate real impactful gun legislation.

and there’s 400 million guns out there, plus the second amendment, so that’s never going to reverse course.

Look, i agree we have to try something with gun control, but that’s mostly out of desperation and political expediency. There’s little evidence to suggest it will do much.

We have a to. if gins and a decaying moral compass with our collective culture. That’s two big problems. Each side wants to pretend there only one issue.

If the problem is guns, guns, guns, what would you propose? There’s 400 million guns out there already. The criminals aren’t going to voluntarily hand theirs over.
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[Pete F.]

Odd how the time people fantasize as perfect is before they were born
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

and there’s 400 million guns out there, plus the second amendment, so that’s never going to reverse course.

Look, i agree we have to try something with gun control, but that’s mostly out of desperation and political expediency. There’s little evidence to suggest it will do much.

We have a to. if gins and a decaying moral compass with our collective culture. That’s two big problems. Each side wants to pretend there only one issue.

If the problem is guns, guns, guns, what would you propose? There’s 400 million guns out there already. The criminals aren’t going to voluntarily hand theirs over.
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Put the assault weapon ban back in, more wide spread and without any sunset provision because it worked. That’s not all that needs to be or can be done, but high powered weapons is a good place to start.

During the 1994-2004 ban:

In the years after the assault weapons ban went into effect, the number of deaths from mass shootings fell, and the increase in the annual number of incidents slowed down. Even including 1999’s Columbine High School massacre – the deadliest mass shooting during the period of the ban – the 1994 to 2004 period saw lower average annual rates of both mass shootings and deaths resulting from such incidents than before the ban’s inception.

From 2004 onward:

The data shows an almost immediate – and steep – rise in mass shooting deaths in the years after the assault weapons ban expired in 2004.

Breaking the data into absolute numbers, between 2004 and 2017 – the last year of our analysis – the average number of yearly deaths attributed to mass shootings was 25, compared with 5.3 during the 10-year tenure of the ban and 7.2 in the years leading up to the prohibition on assault weapons.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Only gun dealers with a Federal Firearms License are required to do a background check before selling a gun in Texas, not private sellers. Texas has NO state requirement for more comprehensive background checks when purchasing a firearm. Therefore, persons prohibited from owning firearms can easily obtain a gun - on the internet, at a gun show, even from a private seller out of the trunk of a car.
In states like Texas with no state-required background check, research has shown that 57% of private gun sales were done with no background check.
Around 80% of all firearms acquired for criminal purposes are obtained through transfers from unlicensed sellers. Including the purchase of his firearm by the Odessa/Midland mass shooter.
Texans overwhelmingly (79%) support universal background checks.

But it’s a mental health problem
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you’re dismissing the mental health problem because you don’t happen to like it. Utter failures in mental health policy are precisely why Newtown happened.

i’m totally fine with expanded background checks and probably ok with red flag laws although they’re ripe for abuse.

you’re also focused on the mass showings for political reasons, and completely ignoring garden variety handgun violence, which is irrefutably a much bigger problem.

that doesn’t mean we don’t consider your ideas about mass shootings. But like a dutiful liberal you only care about the smaller problem and ignore the issue hat claims far more lives. why can’t we address. both?

Because talking about the true causes of urban gun violence, is a political loser for the left, and you all know it. So it gets swept under the rug.

Black lives only matter when they help democrats win elections.

i think you have some good ideas. you’d have more good ideas, if you’d be willing to put down the Kool Aid and think outside the parameters of what liberalism tells you to think.

there’s good ideas in both sides. but both sides only talk about the good ideas that help them win elections. . both sides do it.
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[Pete F.]

The stories out of Highland Park about kids knowing exactly what to do when the shooting began, and guiding parents based on their active shooting drills, embody the burden of violence this next generation of kids endure because of the inaction of their elders.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The stories out of Highland Park about kids knowing exactly what to do when the shooting began, and guiding parents based on their active shooting drills, embody the burden of violence this next generation of kids endure because of the inaction of their elders.
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agreed. and both parties are running various states and have been in control of DC at different times, and neither has accomplished anything. both parties get a well deserved F on this issue.
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[Pete F.]

Ahh, both sides
Well one side is and has for more than ten years been running political ads with candidates posing with and using assault style rifles, threatening their political opponents.
https://youtu.be/bZZ2Y6fAq8o

The same side removed the functioning assault weapons ban.
The same side has blocked comprehensive healthcare reform, police reform, weapon liability reform and any control of who can possess a weapon.
The city with the highest murder rate in the USA has no gun laws except against a concealed weapon, so perhaps gun laws actually work.

And before you claim things are impossible, remember this is the country where a guy got on a plane twenty years ago with a bomb in his shoe and ever since everyone has dutifully taken their shoes off when boarding a plane

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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Ahh, both sides
Well one side is and has for more than ten years been running political ads with candidates posing with and using assault style rifles, threatening their political opponents.
https://youtu.be/bZZ2Y6fAq8o

The same side removed the functioning assault weapons ban.
The same side has blocked comprehensive healthcare reform, police reform, weapon liability reform and any control of who can possess a weapon.
The city with the highest murder rate in the USA has no gun laws except against a concealed weapon, so perhaps gun laws actually work.

And before you claim things are impossible, remember this is the country where a guy got on a plane twenty years ago with a bomb in his shoe and ever since everyone has dutifully taken their shoes off when boarding a plane

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Pete, I'm convinced you would support the Gestapo.

[JohnR]

Cookie Cutter MAGA, clearly

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Pete, I'm convinced you would support the Gestapo.

As A Christian, I remind you that Jesus was a gun-loving nationalist who opposed abortion, immigration, labor unions, gay rights & Communists.

Oh wait; did I say Jesus?

Sorry, I meant Hitler.
Jesus did none of that.
That was all Hitler’s agenda.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Cookie Cutter MAGA, clearly

Apparently you’ve never seen the people at a Trump rally
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Ahh, both sides
Well one side is and has for more than ten years been running political ads with candidates posing with and using assault style rifles, threatening their political opponents.
https://youtu.be/bZZ2Y6fAq8o

The same side removed the functioning assault weapons ban.
The same side has blocked comprehensive healthcare reform, police reform, weapon liability reform and any control of who can possess a weapon.
The city with the highest murder rate in the USA has no gun laws except against a concealed weapon, so perhaps gun laws actually work.

And before you claim things are impossible, remember this is the country where a guy got on a plane twenty years ago with a bomb in his shoe and ever since everyone has dutifully taken their shoes off when boarding a plane

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Sorry, I live in CT, which has been a 50 year experiment in pure, unchecked liberalism. New Haven, Bridgeport, Hartford, are all disgusting and dangerous. There has been nothing but liberalism for 50 years. Bankrupt, failing sh*tholes.

I said both sides get an F, and you respond by saying conservatives failed, shich I already conceded so I don't know what you are responding.

What's happening, in New Orleans, Baltimore, Chicago, is more than enough proof that liberalism isn't the answer either.

Pete, ignoring every single policy failure on your side might make you feel better about your side, but it's not how rational people judge success or failure.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Cookie Cutter MAGA, clearly

What everybody thinks of, when the think of a Republican.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Sorry, I live in CT, which has been a 50 year experiment in pure, unchecked liberalism. New Haven, Bridgeport, Hartford, are all disgusting and dangerous. There has been nothing but liberalism for 50 years. Bankrupt, failing sh*tholes.

I said both sides get an F, and you respond by saying conservatives failed, shich I already conceded so I don't know what you are responding.

What's happening, in New Orleans, Baltimore, Chicago, is more than enough proof that liberalism isn't the answer either.

Pete, ignoring every single policy failure on your side might make you feel better about your side, but it's not how rational people judge success or failure.

Apparently it feels good to you, just how powerful do you think city governments are?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Apparently it feels good to you, just how powerful do you think city governments are?
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If I concede that cities are powerless (which I don't), the state of CT has also implemented nothing but pure liberalism for 50 years. And again, New Haven, Bridgeport, and Hartford are dangerous and disgusting. So whose fault is that, the state government of Texas?

You want to know how powerful a city can be at reducing crime? Look at what happened in NYC before, during, and after Rudy's tenure, tells you everything you need to know.

Facts are facts, even the ones you don't happen to like.

Here's what liberals really struggle with. You want to improve things like crime? Look at what other places have done, and look at the results. Put politics aside, and repeat what has been shown to work, and avoid repeating what has been shown to fail.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Sorry, I live in CT, which has been a 50 year experiment in pure, unchecked liberalism. New Haven, Bridgeport, Hartford, are all disgusting and dangerous. There has been nothing but liberalism for 50 years. Bankrupt, failing sh*tholes.

I said both sides get an F, and you respond by saying conservatives failed, shich I already conceded so I don't know what you are responding.

What's happening, in New Orleans, Baltimore, Chicago, is more than enough proof that liberalism isn't the answer either.

Pete, ignoring every single policy failure on your side might make you feel better about your side, but it's not how rational people judge success or failure.

NH is great. Have you ever been to East Rock or Westville? Big cities are where the poor, sick, etc. go. Compare the liberal states to the conserv. states and you will see which states need the help.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

If I concede that cities are powerless (which I don't), the state of CT has also implemented nothing but pure liberalism for 50 years. And again, New Haven, Bridgeport, and Hartford are dangerous and disgusting. So whose fault is that, the state government of Texas?

You want to know how powerful a city can be at reducing crime? Look at what happened in NYC before, during, and after Rudy's tenure, tells you everything you need to know.

Facts are facts, even the ones you don't happen to like.

Here's what liberals really struggle with. You want to improve things like crime? Look at what other places have done, and look at the results. Put politics aside, and repeat what has been shown to work, and avoid repeating what has been shown to fail.

I showed you previously that the crime rate in NYC started going down before rudy started harassing Blacks for no reason other than being Black, continued after they stopped harassing Blacks for no other reason that being Black and went down all across the country where they weren't harassing Blacks for no other reason than being Black.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I showed you previously that the crime rate in NYC started going down before rudy started harassing Blacks for no reason other than being Black, continued after they stopped harassing Blacks for no other reason that being Black and went down all across the country where they weren't harassing Blacks for no other reason than being Black.

You told me a lot of things Paul, not all of them are valid.

I never said crime rates before Rudy were the highest they'd ever been. I said they got a lot lower under his leadership. That's what I said, and it's true.

So according to you guys, everything good that happens under a Republicans watch, the credit goes to the last democrat to hold that office. And everything bad that happens under a Republican's watch, is 100% the fault of that Republican. Do I have that right?

Sounds fair!

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You want to know how powerful a city can be at reducing crime? Look at what happened in NYC before, during, and after Rudy's tenure, tells you everything you need to know.
.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You told me a lot of things Paul, not all of them are valid.

I never said crime rates before Rudy were the highest they'd ever been. I said they got a lot lower under his leadership. That's what I said, and it's true.

So according to you guys, everything good that happens under a Republicans watch, the credit goes to the last democrat to hold that office. And everything bad that happens under a Republican's watch, is 100% the fault of that Republican. Do I have that right?

Sounds fair!

But your claim about rudy doesn't show anything about what a city can do bc many other cities (and states) had very similiar reductions in crime.

Under his watch they did develop compstat which was shown to reduce crime.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

But your claim about rudy doesn't show anything about what a city can do bc many other cities (and states) had very similiar reductions in crime.

Under his watch they did develop compstat which was shown to reduce crime.

Rudy got unbelievably proactive and aggressive with handling crime. After he did that, crime rates plummeted. After your side came in and decided that criminals need hugs and free needles instead of prison, crime rates soared.

That doesn't prove causation. Especially when one is horrified at the thought of there being causation, because he was a republican.

Crime is high on voter's minds. Let's see who Americans think is better suited to handle it in a few months,

Your sides answer to crime is to "defund the police". If your goal was to appeal to the violent criminal vote, it worked. Everyone else, almost died laughing.