2 Stroke vs 4 Stroke

[Fish On]

So I'm seriously considering repowering my Hydra-Sports 2150 WA. Currently it has a 1997 Johnson 175 Ocean Runner. I've talked to several dealers and am confinced that I am thoroughly confused. I think I need opinions from experts that don't have a vested interested in the decision I make other than perhaps pointing a fellow fisherman in the right direction.

First my situation is that I love inshore fishing but I also like to go offshore, sometimes as far as 40-50 miles if the conditions are right. So my primary reasons for the purchase are (in order): 1) reliability, not having a breakdown off shore 2) range, want to be able to go 40 miles, troll for 6 hours and come back with a hefty reserve in case coming back takes more fuel than planned (currently have 100 gal. tank) 3) cost 4) esthetics, fumes and noise have been a source of complaints from some passengers with my current power 5) resale value which I think translates into longevity of the engine for the most part. I do realize there are other significant differences such as maintenance, weight, etc which are worth considering but are really not in my top 5.

My boat is rated for 225 HP and there are a significant number of choices at that level of power so I'm pretty sure 225 is what I will go with if I pull the trigger.

The 4 stroke advocate is pushing the Yamaha 4 stroke 225 touting 35% increased fuel efficiency, 3000 hour lifetime, huge improvement in noise and no fumes. Looks like cost will be $14,500 with my engine in trade and with the cost of converting the boat's controls to 4 -stroke.

The 2 stroke advocate is pushing the Evinrude 225 HP direct inject 2-stroke saying I'll get a 15% increase in range with a significant top end speed increase. He says the 4 stroke will have trouble maintaining a cruise speed because of a lack of mid range torque. This will cause me to run the 4 stroke at higher RPM's which will negate the fuel efficiency advantage and make the range comparible for both. Looks like cost will be about $11,000 with my engine in trade. He sort of avoids the longevity question possibly becuase of the history, but other sources say Evinrude has solved earlier problems with their direct inject engines.

So what do you all think? Please give me your opinions. Which would you choose. Which do you think I should choose? Does anyone currently own one of these two engines or a similar brand/model and wish to share their experiences, good or bad?

Thanks for all the help and advice over the past few years. You guys have been great!

[BasicPatrick]

I am getting ready to buy a brand new rig and I have been considering the same issues. I have two comments to add to your thoughts.


one...
I do not put a lot of stock in the "2-stroke has a higher top end speed" since it is not often that any of us run full throttle no matter what the speed.

two...
there is some pretty good info on the new Mercury 4-strokes. They goirt me leaning that way

PAtrick

[UserRemoved1]

yami 4 banger all the way.

[Moose Nuckle]

Pat and salty are right. I have a new two stroke. I should have gotten the four....

[capesams]

I was told that yamaha makes the heads for merc.[4 stroke] and the the new 2 strokes being fuel injected an run by puters are just as good if not better then the 4 strokes now.

goods news....they can all crap out at any time, new old an inbetween. this I have been told by more than 2 top tech's.

[Vectorfisher]

A new direct injected 2 stroke is hard to beat, not fuel injected, direct injected. The Evinrudes you speak of are Ficht and the 200 -250hp motors were not the problem, it was the 150-175 motor different block etc. There are pro's and con's to both, weigth, fuel consumption, price. If I had to repower tomorrow it would be a 250 hp FICHT all the way, why would you want to pay for gauges, and anything else you may or may not have already.
I have not had a 4 stroke but have heard problems in all of them with oil making.

[UserRemoved1]

Me n bigcat did a fairly decent test on 2 vs 4 last year on our boats. We both have 20' center consoles, he has a 115 2 banger and I got a 115 4 banger. Both hulls very similar in weight etc, we ran down and up Bbay one day, following almost exactly the same track..

The results were pretty predictable. Same speeds....My boat used a little less gas than his, and he had to deal with 2 stroke oil costs too.

[Bigcat]

Lets see you will save 3.500 with a Evinrude with no smoke no fumes.It is sounds like the Yamaha dealer is yanking your chain a bit?
The big 4 stroke has not been on the market that long and how can anyone say a engine is going to last x amount of hour's when the avarage boater only puts on about 100 hours a season?

[Vectorfisher]

Salty you did not state whether the 2 stroke was direct injection or fuel injection, there is a huge difference in the fuel/oil consumption of a Ficht versus a Carbed Johnson

[Vectorfisher]

Fishon you can buy an awful lot of oil for the price difference you mentioned, oh yah gas too! Also keep in mind JD powers awarded Ficht the best 2 stroke outboard OVER YAMAHA, and MERCURY

[Bigcat]

Vectorfish, I was running a ficth 2 stroke, we ran about 120 miles he got me on about 2 gallons of fuel,but I like to run WOT a lot. I like to drive it like I stole it
So you can throw the 2 gallons out the window with the way I like to drive.

[justplugit]

FISH ON. no mention of Honda. Do yourself a favor and check them out,as they have only made 4 strokes for years and imho they make a terrific engine. Try Defender Industries for pricing as they sometimes have last years engines at a discount. Goodluck and enjoy whatever you decide on.

[dragnfly14]

Last summer I did a lot of research on motors 2v4 stroke. This is what I found: (1st let me tell you that I was a total Evenrude fan). 1. If I was to buy a 4 stroke it would be a Yahama. Best overall performance and quality for the money. 2. If I was going to buy a 2 stroke it would be a Merury Opti Max 1st and Yahama 2nd. Opti-max 2 stroke runs super quiet and the oil injection mostly elimitates oil smoke and very oil effecent. Fuel ecconemy on Opti Max is rated almost as good as 4 stroke. The Yahama 2 stroke have about the same fectures as the Merc. but is louder. 3 yrs ago I purchased a new boat with a Merc 2 stroke oil inj and love it. Fuel effec on gas and oil and almost as quiet as a 4 stroke. As far a power I have been on boats with the Yahama 4 stroke and it saw as snappy as a 2 stroke. I hope this will be some help.

Hank

[179]

Fish On,
If you are considering a new 225hp motor, you have to check out the new Suzuki 225HP 4-stroke. This thing makes the 225 Yamaha look silly and will run with any hpdi motor out there. And guess what, no fumes, no smoke, and no oil reserve

[Van]

There is a problem with asking this kind of question. I've seen it many times with all kinds of issues ie rods, reels, GPS, boats and motors etc... I am also guilty of it myself. Most people (not all) will stick with what they know best, which is the equipment they currently use. That product will then be highly recommended by the individual.
So that being said read what everyone says, although it will be conflicting, read up as much as possible elsewhere (reviews, magazines, other websites).
Consider what YOU want and which engine will be the best fit for the $$. Both 2 and 4 cycles nowadays offer alot, and each has their weaknesses and strengths.

I run a 2 cycle. nuf said... Good Luck...

[gf2020]

My first suggestion would be to do nothing. A 7 year old OMC 175 has many years of trustworthy service left in it. You're talking about spending $12-15,000 to re-power; you can buy a lot of gas and oil for that kind of money.

However, if you are hell bent on re-powering I would go with the Evinrude 200.



The Evinrude 200/225/250 engines all use the same 3.3 liter block. The 200 gets you the bigger displacement engine without the additional expense of the 225. The performance difference between the two would be negligible on your boat, maybe 1.5 MPH at WOT.

If you want, you can use your existing OMC controls with the new Evinrude, furthering your savings. If you decide to upgrade your controls and gauges, you will still be money ahead versus a Yamaha or Suzuki 4 stroke.

[Fish On]

What fantastic responses! Obviously this is a very hotly debated topic and is sure to continue that way at least until a clear winner emerges, if ever.

I've had discussions with a few more dealers and also considered all of the feedback here. I am convinved that, if properly maintained, my current Johnson can be very reliable.

I think the decision that I will make will be to stay with my current engine for the following reasons:

1) Technology seems to be advancing very quickly and the newer technologies are being well tested right now. It might be better to wait a couple years to let some of the results wash out and to see if a clear winner emerges. Right now I think the DI 2 strokes may be pulling into the lead.

2) One of my main goals was to increase my overall range and make sure I make it back to the dock. I have decided to drop a couple hundred bucks on a fuel flow gauge (already ordered it) so that I can maximize the effectiveness of my fuel capacity as is and always know exactly where I stand with remaining fuel. I'd love to install an auxillary fuel tank, but it appears that I have to have it custom designed and a coast guard approved installation might be expensive. Obviously that is an absolute must when dealing with fuel.

3) A few times last year I had to tap the starter cylinder on my engine with someone holding the key down to get the motor to start. (my Dad had an old 90 Evinrude that had the same issue). This made me skeptical about the overall reliability of the engine, but since hearing the feedback and talking to a few dealers, I think that having the starter checked out and probably replaced will leave me with a very reliable engine.

I want to thank you all for taking the time to respond and provide feedback! This will be a nice chain to review in a few years when things wash out further. Oh to have a crystal ball.....

[Vectorfisher]

I think your crystal ball would have double sided pictures of a new Bombardier E-Tec direct injected motor. They are by far the least comlicated and have been getting Rave reviews from owners, of course the larger horsepower motors are not out yet so we'll see. As for the four strokes, I dunno I forsee both users having there favorite as long as the 4's hold up as expected. In any event you can bet the prices are going to continue to climb like taxes and gas!

[Billybob]

You'll never get consensus on this one, but you asked for opinions.I'm currently running an 86 225 Evinrude and it is in the garage, all apart, will be ready in a week or 2.
So here goes:
- I'd REALLY love a new motor, but for 15 grand or so, this sucker has to die (or I strike it rich) before I could justify it.Not AFFORD it, mind you just justify the crazy expense.
- If it did die, I,d get a 250 Ficht.

While I have mine apart, it's getting a serious cleanup/paintjob and it will look good.
But, it's still gonna drink like a fish and smoke like a chimney.
Bill

[Vectorfisher]

I hear ya Billybob I have been saying that we are getting gang raped over these motors, I bought my truck 6 years ago for 18K I have spent probably less than 2k maintaining it and it is still worth around 10K try that with an outboard motor. I inquired to several dealers about trading for a 250 Ficht and the consensus was 2k for my 99 225 Ficht. I was so POed that I figured I will use mine until she just won't run anymore and then only if I cannot repair it will I buy new. Screw these manufacturers I think we should boycott them drive the prices down.

[Van]

We could definately start a LONG thread on the high prices of outboards.

I guess the manufacturers figure all boaters are rich. My city seems to think so, as they try to add fees onto everything related to boating.

On another note though check out the new MERC being released this year. All electronic controls, even shift and throttle eliminating those heavy control cables. The steering is also integrated electronic -no more hydraulic lines running through the boat, just some thin wires. They have completely redesigned the engine with help from some car manufacturers. Porsche or lotus (I thnk) Digital control RPM and a crap load more. I believe it is a 4 str.
The motor is unbeliveable, but probabaly costs over 20 big ones for 200 HP...OUCH !!!!

[Fish On]

In case anyone is interested in the details on the fuel flow meter. I chose the Flo-Scan 5500 Fuel Meter and chose to pay the extra $$ ($289) because apparently the Navman and the Standard Horizon must be installed vertically. Word is that air bubbles can affect those where the Flo-Scan won't be an issue an can be installed in any direction. I'll be installing it just after the fuel/water separator. Guy at Consumer Marine said he's done it a hundred times and it would take him an hour. He thought not having done it before it would take me 2 1/2. I bet it takes me 4. Anyway, already got the hatch off the cockpit deck which was a bit of a job. Looks pretty good down there for being almost 8 years old. Good idea to check/inspect the fuel tank every once in a while anyway I hear. I'm looking forward to knowing exactly how fast my hog is s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g fuel and what speed I'm traveling. I hope it provides some keen insite and helps me manage consumption more effectively. It will certainly be good to know exactly how many gallons I've burned. The fuel gauge on my dash is horrible. You have to burn 35 gallons just to get it to come off full and then it's dry before the guage hits E.