MAKE STRIPED BASS A GAMEFISH! - Page 2 - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

deputydog · 12-12-2003, 02:29 PM

Mike
Don't hold your breath waiting for a SF type to show up at any Mass meetings. We're not interested in debates with guys like you who live for nothing else. We're not interested in taking our case to the DMR or to the ASMFC or NMFS. They have always shown themselves to be pro-commercial and that's not going to change. We'll take our case directly to the fishermen and women and from there to the rulemakers in Washington.
Very early in our existence (last Spring) you jumped up on your high horse and spouted" Who would want to join a club where you never knew where or when they held the executive board meeting" or words to that effect. When you have only one goal, who needs an E Board meeting? So we can listen to you? I don't think so.
You only will support a cause when you are out front leading the charge. You may not have a commercial license, but you know a whole lot of guys that do! I think that most recreational fishermen should treat you as what a lawyer would call a "hostile witness". Better yet, they should just skip over your posts because you seem to insist on putting the same posts on about 8 different forums.

"Relax, have a homebrew and join Stripers Forever"

MakoMike · 12-12-2003, 04:00 PM

O.K. lets go back over my points one by one.
1.) value of the commercial fishery. 1st of all I don't believ the figure that recreational fishermen spend $600 a pound to catch striped bass. Secondly, where we are talking about hook and line fishing how could the difference per pound, be so disproportional? The commercial guys are running the same boats as the recs, fishing with same rods and reels, using the same baits and fishing in the same waters. Sure there is the "googan" factor on the recreational side, but there is also something similar on the commercial side, at least in MA where 25% of the commercial fihermen caught 100% of the fish. So how could the recreational economic contribution, on a per pound basis be so much different than the commercial factor? The answer is that it can't.
2.) Quotas. I agree that measuring the recreational catch is, at best difficult, but it can be done. Again, would all you guys who are so displeased with the commercial bag limits be content with similar limits for recreationals and have the fishery completely shut down when the quota was reached? I think not. What about in Places like NY where thye issue tags to the commercials and the fisherman can us the tags as they see fit during the season, what's wrong with that? The fact that they may be allowed to sell 40 or 60 fish? If a recreational wanted to keep 40 or 60 fish that would be O.K. but once cash is exchanged its somehow detremental to the resource?
3.) maybe striper forever isn't getting the big bucks, but the organizations that are supporting this cause, like the CCA and RFA certainly do get big bucks, and not only from their memebers. They get cash and other support from organizations like the NYSFTTA and similaar groups which have only the economic interests on their members at heart. Follow the money and you'll see who is really paying for this cause.
4) Several individuals here have dsaid that commercial quotas are constantly increasing, go back and read the thread. The fact is that the commercials have just (last year) gotten back to where they were 20 years ago. No amopunt of obfuscation is going to change that fact.
5.) The other 99% of the people. First of all the story about paying $$ for a 9 inch striper filet proves that the fish are worth a lot more than any of you are giving credit for. People do want to buy them, both at the market and in the resturants. (BTW that 9 inch filet was, almost undoubtedly, a farm raised striper, which again proves the vlaue of the fish if someone can make money by raiseing the things on a fish farm) So why shouldn't they be able to? because some group of costal snobs thinks that all the fish belong to them? Its not the same as trout, bass and other fresh water fish, where all of the management costs as paid by the fishermen through their license fees. The cost of striper management is paid for by everyone, through their tax dollars, both state and federal. So why shouldn't they get their faur share of them? If the bass were so unplatable as some would like us to think it should be obvious that there would be little or no market for them. Commercial fishermen aren't going to fish for fish that don't pay. Of course they are often stupid enough to flood the market and depress prices to a point where nobody makes any money, but that's not the point. If there was no money on striped bass the fish farms would stop raising them and fishermen would stop fishing for them. All you have to do is open your eyes and see that there is a demand for them and that demand comes from the general public who can't or won't catch them themselves. But they pay for them, through their taxes, so why can't they get some?

Some would like us to think that the striper is something special, and that all of those other folks who want to eat fish and the commercial fishermen should content themselves with other species. Well the striper is nothing special, its no different than if there was a movement to make striped bass a commercial only fishery and let all the recreational anglers be content with scup fishing. All of the fish in the ocean belong to everybody and no one should get a monopoly on any one of them.

Mr. Sandman · 12-12-2003, 04:22 PM

1 by 1 response...I am already tried of this...

1) $600/lb was written about in a past SWS. They looked at the cost of boat, fuel fishing, hotel, gear ect vs the amout of fish reported to be taken by recs. I think it is close. Yes the commerical guys are doing the same boats but there are few fewer of them and they are also taking somthing out for person gain. It is this personal gain that I find distasteful.

2) Quotas. Yes they went up last year. We all agree. There is not a commerical fisherman alive that is not looking for more. They are. As I mentioned before RECs are quotaed, they have limits and if we take too much those limits change. 20 years ago we had no limits and a 16" size. Today while the comms are back to their heyday limits we are doing the right thing and conserving the resourse, not exploiting it for personal gain.

3) Right..follow the money and you will see that those with comm interests are steering this effort to suck up every last bass they can for personal gain. mine mine mine mine..remindsme of the gulls in Wheres Nemo.

4) see 2.

5) If you want to sell bass comm'ly go grow them in a prive pond. leave the wild bass alone, they are not yours to sell and personally profit form

6)"...Well the striper is nothing special" <--HEREIN LIES YOUR PROBLEM. It is special. Incredably special. Not just to me but to millions. More so then any fish in our waters (atlantic salmon aside). Comm fisherman see $$ and nothing more. End of story. I can' belive you don't think this is a special and unique species that deserves our protection against exploitation from those who only seek personal profits. You are right about one thing follow the moeny any you will find the problem...its at the wholesale dock! I think I am going to vomit now...

deputydog · 12-12-2003, 04:36 PM

Mike
Does this mean you don't want that Stripers Forever decal?
When I'm ready to set up a gillnet fishery for brook trout I'll be getting in touch with you. After all, why shouldn't you guys have an equal shot at them?
And I'm sick and tired of not being able to get a good canvasback duck in a restaurant too. Maybe you can help me mount my cannon on the bow of my CC.
Wake up my friend, the game is just about over. Lots of people do think the striper is something special, and that guys like you who don't are the enemy.

Team Rock On · 12-12-2003, 07:33 PM

Deputy dog is nothing more than a Brad Burns groupie! Another moron pumping the fraudulent Gripers Forever website. Of course Brad the baby striper killer won't show in public, he's an embarrasment to the fishery. Funny thing is most rec's see right through his blatent propaganda. Boycott Orvis!!

Slipknot · 12-12-2003, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by deputydog
The last few posters sound as though they just might have commercial permits tucked into their waders. I haven't heard anyone who doesn't have a dog in the fight;ie is, was, is married to, related to, lives next to, or is being held hostage by a commercial fisherman, who thinks that stripers shouldn't be exclusively reserved for personal use anglers. Now of course that excludes the fine folks at the ASMFC, the NMFS and the various Departments of Marine Resources all of whom have been in lock step with the commercial interests for other reasons.

I think I fit that catagory.
But I guess you would just think I am eating the cheese or am a lemming

I haven't heard a good arguement from anyone as to why bass should be exclusive to rec. fishing only.

deputydog · 12-13-2003, 02:27 AM

Slipknot
I refuse to argue with someone who can't spell argument.

Team Rocks Off
The word is spelled blatant. Write that on the blackboard 100 times.

Either of you guys want to buy a couple of decals?

Team Rock On · 12-13-2003, 08:21 AM

Beware of the "false facts" propagated by fringe groups such as StripersForever....

posted on 27-Aug-2003 1:34:25 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I spoke at length to Anne Lange and Tom Meyer of NMFS on Mon. at the ASMFC meeting. They will be reopening the public comment on whether to reopen the EEZ to striper fishing.

I expressed some of my concerns to them.

I don't think that they are very impressed by form letters they have received on behalf of several advocacy groups like STRIPERS FOREVER and the other usual advocacy groups. This is because they concentrate too much on certain contrived issues which are based on false "facts" and assumptions.

An original letter to go with the other 20 or 30 they have received will have far more impact. If you really care enough about the issue to write something original, base it on facts that you get from balanced sources instead of advocacy groups who portray the issue in accordance with their own agenda.

May I suggest the ASMFC Striped Bass Management Board Proceedings (minutes) from the 2/24/03 meeting in Arlington. It will give you all sides and opinions that came forth in the debate on whether to open the EEZ, including Anne Lange's, who is receiving the public comment. If you want to be effective, may I suggest you read her's and other's comments and concerns expressed at the meeting. Politely and factually rebutt them as you see fit.

Wherever you get your "facts" upon which to base your opinion expressed in your letter to NMFS....keep one thing in mind. If you base your letter on the "facts" presented in one or two organizations' websites or email alerts, especially if they are an agenda driven org, your letter will be far less effective than if you conciously try to get all the facts from objective sources.

Agenda driven groups do not provide objective sources of facts, even if the ostensible agenda is one you think you share.

Go to objective sources, get your facts straight and base your letter on those facts if you really want to keep the EEZ closed. If your letter is completely anti-commercial on this one, you will already be factually incorrect.

The commercial bogeyman under the bed that you've been told about does not exist.

Kelly

Team Rock On · 12-13-2003, 08:32 AM

Information or propaganda?

"Last weekend we sent members at that time copies of e-mails from unnamed
fishery officials from Chesapeake Bay who told us loud and clear that
things are bad down there, and another ASMFC fishery scientist from CT who
has calculated that natural striped bass mortality is much greater than
assumed."

There is more info on Stripers Forever Website
information on our website regarding the reasons SF opposes the reopeningLast weekend we sent members at that time copies of e-mails from unnamed
fishery officials from Chesapeake Bay who told us loud and clear that
things are bad down there, and another ASMFC fishery scientist from CT who
has calculated that natural striped bass mortality is much greater than
assumed.
of the EEZ. Simply put, though, we feel there is no good reason to
reopen the EEZ. It will just create more pressure on a fish that already
has too much pressure on it. And while we have no sympathy with any
aspect of the commercial fishery, they certainly don't need more territory
either. The Mass. commercial quota is pursued by 4,500 people and was
achieved in a month. We heard that the catch came in so quickly to some
dealers that they couldn't find a market and had to refuse to buy any
more. The price was ridiculously low. Stripers are a schooling fish, and
in the middle of the summer a lot of fish are located in finite locations,
and are easily caught in volume. The commercial fishermen don't need more
area, some of them just feel like doing their fishing in the EEZ, and it
is only their personal fishing pleasure that they have any concern about.
As soon as a commercial fishery is open in the EEZ netters will be
catching stripers that they claim were taken with a rod and reel and
demanding markets and quotas for what they call bycatch fisheries,
attempts will be made to get around state gamefish laws, and the already
bloated and totally ignored illegal commercial fishery will become even
larger.
There is plenty of reason for concern about the future of
striped bass fishing, and we do not need to open new ground, especially on
the back of the disgusting 42% increase in the coastal commercial quota
this last year. Make no mistake about it, it is only a couple of the most
zealous commercial fishing state fishery directors that are behind this
move. We hope that you will get out to the meetings and let them know
that we need no new areas to kill striped bass.

Brad Burns

Slipknot · 12-13-2003, 11:17 AM

OK Barney Fife

didn't know I was typing a term paper, ya I'll take a couple stickers, where do I send my nickle?

Comm. fishing needs enforcement of the regs. just as much as rec. fishing, I say give higher fines and stick to them and force the bad guys out of business. Make the risk of getting caught not worth the loss of profit that would pay the fines and then we might get somewhere. Too many crooks out there.

I would like to see striped bass last forever also and I also think the Comms. and recs. have to work together not against each other.

flatts1 · 12-14-2003, 12:33 AM

DeputyDog wrote:
Don't hold your breath waiting for a SF type to show up at any Mass meetings. We're not interested in debates with guys like you who live for nothing else. We're not interested in taking our case to the DMR or to the ASMFC or NMFS.

Actually Stripers Forever did make their case to NMFS at the Portland Maine hearing. Pitty though that they didn't have the stones to show up at the Mass hearing. Really, it was a missed opportunity for SF considering that Paul Diodati and other Mass DMF staff were present. SF is so quick to bash the DMF (from behind their keyboard of course) yet they choose not to face them in a public forum for fear of being exposed for what they are - which a farce.

Deputy Dog wrote:
When you have only one goal, who needs an E Board meeting?

What is that one goal again. Is it to ban commercial fishing, or is it to keep the EEZ closed to everyone including recreational anglers? Or is it something else? I guess we won't know because the only answers one can get from this group are from emails that they may or may not chose to reply to.

You only will support a cause when you are out front leading the charge.

I'm not sure what you are referring to hear but I have a hunch. Let me be very clear. Unless I specify that I am writing on behalf of an organized cause or a specific group, my personal comments on the various fishing websites are just that - my personal comments. That said, there are a number of issues that I discuss with great passion that I do not "lead the charge" on but that I like to think I offer some insight to (saltwater fishing licenses, opening the EEZ, etc...)

Deputy Dog wrote:
You may not have a commercial license, but you know a whole lot of guys that do! I think that most recreational fishermen should treat you as what a lawyer would call a "hostile witness".

I can take the lies from SF because I expect them.

I can take being charactarized as "hostile" especially when it is coming from a group that is trying to force folks out of work by all hostile means available.

But one thing I can't stand is when someone who has never met me somehow thinks he knows me.

For the record...

- I do not posess a commercial license for any species of fish

- I never have posessed a commercial license species of fish

- I have never sold any species of fish and I do not plan to

- To my knowledge, the number folks that I know personally who do hold a commercial license for strped bass numbers exactly 1 and I couldn't even tell you if he sold any fish this past year.

- Even if I did know several commercial folks, I would consider it an asset (great source of annectdotal data) and not a liability.

So why do I write so much against SF's efforts? Because I see them as just another unAmerican group trying to push a touchy/feely agenda - freedom be damned! In my opinion, Stripers Forever is not only motivated by a visceral contempt for commercial fishermen, but also by a contempt for those who simply do not fish like them.

Take the following quote from Mr. Burns regarding the EEZ for example...

"Additionally, I would add, it is the shore-based, or near shore fishermen that have historically targeted school sized stripers that have been left out of the striper’s recovery. And these anglers make up the vast majority of the fishing public. They, not the fat cats who can afford offshore boats, should be accommodated first."

This is nothing more than class-envy at its worst. I'm not a "fat cat" but I do go out on a couple of charters each year. Who is Stripers Forever or anyone else to tell me how I should fish based on my means? This is a very socialist argument and as an American I found this rhetoric to be completely nauseating.

DeputyDog, I am all about learning and getting things right. I try to look at all issues with an open mind and I take in information from many, many sources. If you wish to discuss the substance of Stripers Forever's positions (if any exists) then by all means please do. However, if all you can manage as a response to those who disagree with you is to point out that they made some typos, then I think you need to do a little more homework in order to represent your group a little better.

Friends don't let friends join Stripers Forever

Later,
Mike Flaherty
Quincy, MA

P.S.
If anyone is wondering why all of a sudden the Stripers Forever folks are now coming out of the wood work, it is because Brad Burns has instructed them to. The following is an excerpt from a recent message from Stripers Forever. Rather than defend his own positions, Mr. Burns is instructing his lemmings to do it for them.

SF wrote:
We need some help from our members this winter in spreading the word about SF and its single goal of gaining game fish stature for striped bass. Specifically, we need some volunteers to post our information to the various chat rooms and to defend our mission against the inevitable attacks that will be made.

...

If you like the forum environment and you want the opportunity to make a valuable contribution to our cause, please email our website to the attention of George and we can discuss how we can begin.

goosefish · 12-17-2003, 06:26 PM

Heavy rhetoric here. Fisheries science is hard for one reason: because it has people as its base, and anytime people are concerned there are issues. I live in Rhode Island where the bass are managed differently. Three or four fish per day per license holder. Most the fish are caught rod and reel. The fish traps have a seperate quota with a slot limit: I thinks its 24"-28"
From reading some of these comments it sounds like Mass. is a real mess. I think 40 fish is too many and I think that it puts way too much pressure on the 'numbers spots' like Buzzards Bay and Vineyard Sound, Devils Bridge and Squibby. Rhode Island makes more sense. AS for Stripers Unlt. I don't know a thing about it. But I do know that i started to get tired of Salt Water Sportsman's editorials constant bashing of commercial harvesters. I worked on trawler's for twelve years, which doesn't really mean anything, except I'm sensitive to bashing of commercial fishing. But still i feel that the way Mass. is going about it is wrong, almost nonsensical. I have no solution, and besides, i don't follow the issues closely enough to have an opinion. But i love to fish and I love the striped bass and this is, I suppose, all I need for a voice in the matter.

cheferson · 02-18-2004, 01:23 AM

Should definetly make stripers a game fish. Working in kitchens for a few years i can attest to the amount of anglers illegally selling bass to restaraunts, many times under 28 inches, makes me sick. Ive also been in the back of fish markets , where there were more then a few short striper racks in the scrap bin. Man in general is a very greedy animal, take away the profit and there numbers , im sure will skyrocket!!

Flaptail · 02-19-2004, 08:32 PM

Okay, reality check time here. The making of the Striped Bass into gamefish status is a bad move but before you go hopping around the room and cursing at your computer hear me out. I have been catching Striped Bass since I was 6 years old, I caught my first one at the end of the Scusset Jetty fishing with my Dad and brothers, I am 48 years old now. Most of you know me from the articles, column in On The Water and talks I do now and then on my favorite subject, the Striped Bass.

I put myself through school by commercially fishing for Striped Bass when it was seen as an honorable profession. I along with just about everyone else who fished in the late seventies and early eighties sold most of what we caught. It was a case of economics, ie; being on the verge of financial ruin most of the time, paying for school then being engaged and then newly married with a new home etc., it was a lot to pay for.

I sold my last fish in the fall of 86'. I stopped because I didn't need the extra money anymore and most of all because I had and have friends that are true commercial fishermen, meaning they do it all year 'round. Now these guys over the last ten years have taken a beating. They fish day boats. Twenty footers that go out when conditions permit and what with limits on cod and the like they can barely eak out a living. The one thing they have in common is that they do it because they love the work. They are not office types or warehouse types and any kind of onshore work just doesn't suit thier personalities. They didn't rape the oceans like the bigger draggers and such. They were lucky to do a thousand pounds in several days let alone in one half way decent haul.

My point is this. The letting out of licenses to people that have jobs onshore already and make $38.00 an hour fitting pipes or selling cars etc.is wrong. If your going to sell Bass then you should make your entire living from commercial fishing, year round.
I have said this a thousand times but how would you like it if somone showed up at your job, pulled up alongside and said to you that from now on for the next 8 weeks or so he is going to get a share of your salary? That's what is going on with anyone getting a license for selling bass as of this moment. Not fair.

I fish the beach and from my skiff 4 or 5 times a week. The number of recreational anglers seeking Bass has tripled in the last five years or so. The amount of fish they take home is enormous compared to the commercial catch. Sure we know how much the commercials take. They have to report it to the state and the state publish's those figures. Recs don't but if they did it would open alot of eyes.

Right now making it a gamefish and the efforts of SBF is a blatant attempt to skewer the view of the general public to thier one sided view. It is the cause of many without the benefit of the experience of the many years it takes to truly know the bass and the history of the fishery. I have seen bad times. In '82 I fished the canal religiously all season, night tides and day tides with some of the best bass fishermen the canal has ever seen and I caught two (2) all season form beginning to end. The cause of the decline to that level wasn't overfishing, it was the careless plundering of the eco system that supports the larval striped bass. DDT use in tobacco fields along the shores of the Chesapeake, pollution in the Hudson and acid rain. Not overfishing.

The striper is a fish with tremendous fecundity. Given the right conditions it spawns millions of fry. That should be the aim of SBF. To protect the environment that nutures the healthy re-production of the Striped Bass. To see that restrictions on the netting of forage fish that the Bass need to have when they reach the larger sizes is made into law. To restore the once abundant stocks of fish like Menhaden, Mullet and Herring.

Protect those resources and the bass will take care of themselves. Add to this a 36" limit for commercial and recreational fishermen alike at that size limit the law for the entire range of the Striped Bass. The Bass is an interstate traveller and belongs not to one state only and should be regulated as such. Not 18' here, 28' there, that's stupid management. And, lastly, again, make it legal for only the true commercial fisherman to harvest the Striped Bass, not weekend warriors and vacationing plumbers and office workers.

Just my two cents, thanks for listening.

"uffah!!" · 02-19-2004, 09:33 PM

All I want to know is when is JohnR going to teach me how to catch some Striped Bass this year???

Ed B · 02-20-2004, 03:57 PM

Flap, from your post is why I think the status quo should remain as is and the resource be shared equitably by all.

Flaptail said:
"My point is this. The letting out of licenses to people that have jobs onshore already and make $38.00 an hour fitting pipes or selling cars etc.is wrong. If your going to sell Bass then you should make your entire living from commercial fishing, year round.
I have said this a thousand times but how would you like it if somone showed up at your job, pulled up alongside and said to you that from now on for the next 8 weeks or so he is going to get a share of your salary? That's what is going on with anyone getting a license for selling bass as of this moment. Not fair."

You would first have to decide who is the "real commercial fisherman". Do you pull 1040 Tax Forms? Does the guy have an inheritance? How about if his wife brings home a salary? Do you disqualify him if he has a side job? Lots of things to think about.
Is a lobster fisherman or a dragger captain more entitled to sell a bass than a guy working in a Seven Eleven who doesn't make much more than minimum? And really anyboby in industry can grab your whole salary at any time. They just call it outsourcing, or competition. Businesses fold all the time and people get laid off. Thats the competitive market place at work.

My main point is that every select group has lobbied to give themselves the maximum share of the resource that they can reasonably aqcuire. We've heard all the arguments over the years.

Along comes a new group of fly fishing guides and tackle manufacturers, starts a website and comes up with a bunch of reasons why they want the resource for themselves. And on and on it goes.

There are sooooo many more fish around now than in the old days when we fished together, that an equitable distribution can be found if we all try. With the more groups in it, the more voices will be heard to keep the process as democratic as possible. I say maintain the status quo.

Flaptail · 02-20-2004, 06:17 PM

Ed, I bow to the eloquence of your statement. The only thing is that when considering all the "other considerations " we may get caught up in the old "what if a dinosaur eats my house" theory when we opt to think of class status, inheritance, side jobs and the like.

Proof in a 1040a or other likewise printed history of income would tell the talein my theory. We could discuss it one night over the rythym of the surf as we cruise in my truck along a outer cape beach. What do you say?

I agree with your statement on the true interest of SBF. Pity they where the Emperors new clothes forall to see.

Crazy though it be true at our middle age we are "old timers" at this contest. Let's get together and talk of old times and glory days soon. OK my friend?

Ed B · 02-20-2004, 06:50 PM

It is never easy trying to decide who should be entitled to what resources and still retain the democratic principles. As the years go by I have more respect for those who make the rules regardless of what the critics say. It is not an easy process.

I agree we have to fish again this season. The "rhythm of the surf" I like that. We will tell good stories and maybe catch a few too.

Ed

Fly Rod · 02-21-2004, 01:01 PM

Flaptail says

Quote:

Letting out licences to people that have jobs on shore is wrong

Hello !!! Flaptail

wake up this is "America" land of opportunity.
Your saying that car salesmen; pipe fitters; store clerks; computer gurus,etc. should be denied a commercial license if they are not full time commercial fishermen.So they can't supplement there income by commercial fishing or lobstering part time.

So you must also mean that commercial fishermen can't work on shore to supplement there income.

I know full time commercial fishermen that do work on shore when they are not out fishing . Some do construction work. I know one gill netter that when prices are low or weather like a month ago sets him back does carpentry work to supplement his income.
I've hired fishermen in the past when some have come on hard times. Maybe I won't do that anymore.

And it is interesting that you made that statement because a couple weeks ago we were talking about that at coffee. A few gill netters are going to try to get a state fishing law to deny part timers from fishing commercial. Maybe if they do that maybe I could apply for your job to supplement my income.

Flaptail · 02-23-2004, 05:53 PM

If you understood, then you wouldn't have replied, why do you think these guys need a second job? Cause they want to? Don't you think that if they could make enough from fishing instead of competing with other knuckleheads they would work ashore?

Fly Rod · 02-25-2004, 05:57 PM

Commercial fishermen up here that want to fish make damn good money.
New cars; new houses they aren't hurting.
Maybe after this Amendment 13 goes into effect they might as more fishing days may be taken away. Then they will target other fish.

Crafty Angler · 02-27-2004, 10:20 AM

Hey, I'm in agreement with Flap, John and Ed. Status quo, with a 36" limit coastwide in the migratory range.

If you're really worried about the long-term health of the fishery start making noise to save the pogies, the main forage (or what should be) for bass. Get the purse seiners outta business and you're gonna take an enormous step in the right direction.

SAVE THE POGIES!!!!!

Screw the whales, dammit, they already got plenty of help now.

Fly Rod · 02-27-2004, 10:22 PM

Where ya been man!!! There are no pogies. Yes a true die hard striper fisherman will go out to the river at one o ' clock in the morning, set his bait net that he paid 30 bucks for the permit ,bust his a$$ till day light for a dozen pogies and then go fishing. " AWH!!! I'm tired".
Did you say "perse seiners" or "perse snatches?" Name for us three perse seiners that you know that are fishing for pogies.
The pogie bussiness is dead! dead!! dead!!! Yes it may come alive once again. There are only a 1/2 dozen commercial boat permits out there and a couple of my friends have one. they keep dreaming of it being worth there time to catch them.

You must be kidding about a 36" size limit. Don't you remember we had a 36" limit that you the recreational fisherman wanted lowered. 36" was standed when they opened up the fishery.

Crafty Angler · 02-27-2004, 11:52 PM

"Where ya been man!!! There are no pogies....Name for us three perse (sic) seiners that you know that are fishing for pogies."

"Omega Protein is the world's largest manufacturer of heart-healthy fish oils containing Omega-3 fatty acids for human consumption, as well as specialty fish meals and fish oil used as value-added ingredients in aquaculture, swine and other livestock feeds. Omega Protein makes its products from menhaden, an Omega-3 rich fish that is not utilized for seafood, but which is abundantly available along the U.S. Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic Coasts."

"The Company utilizes a fleet of fishing vessels supported by spotter aircraft to supply menhaden to its four processing facilities in Louisiana, Mississippi and Virginia. We provide more than 1,000 jobs in the states where we operate. "

Well, it appears that somebody's seining pogies down South - so there's one, lemme come up with a coupla more...

Wait, Ark Bait up this way...there's two. Whaddya think, there might be at least a couple more between Virginia and Maine? Possible, huh?

"You must be kidding about a 36" size limit. Don't you remember we had a 36" limit that you the recreational fisherman wanted lowered."

Yeah, I'm a rec but I assume you're using the editorial "you", Fly Rod, since I don't recall personally supporting anything to lower the size limit. I have a lot of friends who are comms and I don't - and never would - support making striped bass a game fish coastwide.

Like Ed said, it's a shared resource and it should be shared equitably.

So if you want to ensure a healthy fishery for ALL of us, screw the whales, SAVE THE POGIES!!!!!

Fly Rod · 02-28-2004, 09:17 AM

The biggest part of commercial pogie fishing is down off New Jersey, south for around these parts and they are just as abundent as herring are up here. As for up this way there are only about 6 commercial licenses. They use to fish Boston Harbor,and allot of areas here. For the small amount of pogies up here does not make it fesible to fish commercially. Lot of them pogies From Jersey get shipped up this way for lobsta bait,mainly Maine. Maine lobsta men seem to prefer pogies
Stripe bassers basically do not benifit from pogies from the gulf of Mexico or from the southern states.

Also when I said name 6 that do fish commercially I didn't mean in the whole world. Go from Rhode Island, North.

And when I say "YOU" I mean plural.

I agree that it should be a shared resouce.
It was the recreational guys that wanted the 36" limit lowered.
I would rather see it at 36" up & down the coast. I wish that they never changed it
We are all recs until that 3-4 week season!!!!

Crafty Angler · 02-28-2004, 01:33 PM

Amen, brother, amen.

Flaptail · 04-27-2004, 12:58 PM

When the limit was 36 inches the fishing was the best I had ever seen and like you guys I wish it would go back to that. One fish a day at 36" and the commercial limit at 36" also.

David Manzi · 04-27-2004, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flaptail
When the limit was 36 inches the fishing was the best I had ever seen and like you guys I wish it would go back to that. One fish a day at 36" and the commercial limit at 36" also.

Amen, I was at that hearing and was dead aginst lowering the size limet down.

Steve call me ,I left mssg. need to know for plans

BasicPatrick · 05-02-2004, 12:58 AM

Wow,

I am a regular on this site and frequent no other site. I missed this one thread, this was probably divine intervention.

I think a lot of what has been said is very healthy debate. Many of those posting have had good valid points. Also, there have been some gross mis-statements of fact made.

Before throwing my 2 cents in, I hope all of you show up this coming Monday & Tuesday nights for the MA DMF hearings that will adress amongst other things...reducing the MA commercial take to 20 fish per day and 10 on opening Day & Sundays. If you can not make it (very few ever show up), send in a letter with your comments. Check out the MA DMF web site for details. Also say hello, it will not be hard to notice me.

My 2 Cents

1...I will not adress, and fisheries managers also find it hard to adress anyone that breaks the regs. A criminal is a criminal. There will always be criminals. That is whether it is the enormous amount of short fish taken by the rec criminal or the illegally sold fish by commercials. Yes, management plans allow for some accounting of these illegally removed fish but how coulld we count them. Bottom line is more enforcement is needed and that will only come with MONEY & Political Will.

Political Will will not come until people show up and scream for more enforcement. I have been at 95% of the SB related hearings over the last 5 years and I can assure you that more independent persons have posted on this thread than have shown up at any one hearing. This does not constitute political will. Money is even harder to get and schools, 9-11 security, etc are rightfully in front of this issue on the State's budget list. A shame, no doubt, but a fact.

2...Protecting forage fish should be by far #1 when it comes to SB issues. Many have used good examples to back this up here. Currently there are two small cast net/Gill net guys harvesting Menhaden for sale at Bait in MA. Not one Pogey boat is left. thank god. numbers are slowly on the increase but are minimal

3...The MA Commercial SB system is set up and intended to be a part time, non-professional commercial fishery. Current DMF leadership & the majority of the members of the MA SB Advisory Panel want it that way.

As soon as displaced Professional commercial fishers enter this fishery looking for the next species to fish for, most will continue unsucessful practices (long term) and blow out their own new buisness. theeir pattern is next to be looking for government funded buyouts, larger quotas, and all the same issues as the last 7 species these professional commercials have overfished and screwed up. Not to mention that this commercial fishery can not support full time commercial efforts from any realistic financial perspective. Giving the professional commercial fishers the exclusive SB Commercial fishery is akin to introducing the drug addict to Methodone Maitenance instead of their Heroin Habit. (Very Very few ever adress their asddication and most go back to Heroin). This group needs to learn to change their Industry, aka Detox.

Another reason to keep the MA SB Commercial fishery non-professional is that it is an entryway for recs into the fishing industry in general. Many like Flap were MA Commercial SB fishers and moved on to other areas of the industry. Many, Many used this fishery while getting their charter Businesses up and running.

4...Stripers forever is a radical organization. Ok, this is America and they have the right to express their opinion. Their participation in the debate has and will shine light on needed issues. However, democracy works better that dictatorships and they will not gain Gamefish status because they do not have enough support. I choose to ignore them most of the time as I have the right to disagree. SF is small and do not represent even 1% of the 700,000 recs that fish MA salt water each year. As soon as you tell a rec that "Gamefish" means no dinner, no support.

5...Though many of us here on these boards would like to think that we represent the average rec, we do not. Most recs are bait dunkin meat fishin casual fishers that want a keeper to take home. Studies are showing that the average rec lands less than 1 keeper per year, not per trip, per year. I used to argue that this was rediculous, but I started to ask everyone that I know who fishes and now, even though I think the data could be better, I agree that not many do land keepers. My point is that many of us can land SB over 36", but many can not.

fishdog13 · 05-03-2004, 05:57 PM

LIMIT ALL NON COMMERCIAL ROD &REEL 1 TAKEHOME PER WEEK .YA A SLOT LIMIT IS IN ORDER TO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!