Here it comes........

[MAC]

Originally Posted by Skip N

These folks dont have a very good track record making peace.....

The religious zealots over there have been fighting for over 1000 years. They will never agree to live peacefully with each other. Saddam kept semi control of the country by ruling with an iron fist. Not that I condone the things he did because I don't. But they seemed to work in keeping the warring factions at bay.

I personally don't believe a democratic government will ever work over there. Which ever group is elected be it sunni, shiite or whoever the loser will believe they were wronged and bloodshed will ensue. They won't settle for " ok our party lost this election. Maybe next election we will win". That will never happen. Their religious beliefs are something that most of us (myself included) will never be able to comprehend.

What should we do? I don't know. Should we pull our people out of there? We can't, we are in way too deep now. Until the people of Iraq start to turn in the "bad apples" the country will have problems. This will never happen though because what one side sees as terrorists the other side sees as martyrs. I believe a lot of the people over there live in fear of reprisal, and rightfully so.

[Backbeach Jake]

Originally Posted by Skip N

Wait till they did us harm huh? So you want to wait for more 9/11's before we act? Wow, thats some scary thinking Like i said...Pre 9/11 thinking so many on the left have. And its down right scary.

Again, we shoulda kept our focus in Afghanistan. We didn't get after 9/11. That failure only emboldened the Iraqi resistance in our present mess. I feel that "W" attacked Iraq as some weird family vendetta. His Dad,41, quit for a reason. I'm just saying that we shouldn't attack any country unless there is proof that they have done us harm, or are about to. Proof with actual facts. All these opinions here are valid BTW, these are confusing and dangerous times. Folks are only trying to sort it all out. Some look outwardly, some look inwardly. If we look inwardly and discover that we should bear some of the blame, then maybe we should be more careful in the future.

[Nebe]

Kill them with kindness.

[striperman36]

Any ethnic or religious group that has been oppressed does not have a good track record for maintaining peace after the yoke of oppression has been lifted.


Germany
Korea
Vietnam
Cambodia
Iran
Serbia
Iraq
Afghanistan

We could list back thru the centuries what the areas that have not been able to keep the peace. Why should we expect Iraq to be different.

Bill

[Backbeach Jake]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Kill them with kindness.

No, not what I had in mind at all.
1. Be prepared, militarily and intelligently and show it.
2. Treat other nations fairly.
3. If and when attacked, make an example of them so that even our allies cringe. But attack the offender and only the offender. No phantom WMDs. No they might. Just they did and now they're gone.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Kill them with kindness.

Yes, Osama is really a softie deep down.

[kevin d]

Let them kill each other off and hope they do a great job of it.

[Raven]

but in my view....Iraq was like a felon let out of Jail on probation
and afterwards violated that probation so an arrest was neccessary.

The problem with this war....in essense was that the terrain makes things real difficult...mostly in Afganistan... those mountain ranges are
as dangerous as is Mt Everest.

But Iraq is a flat desert primarilly and in starting the war there, we now have a huge military base thats completely outsourced btw right smack in the middle of it....which gives us complete control over Syria Iran and any other trouble spot ....by having the materials close by.

[Swimmer]

We have yet to devise a scenario for dealing with a people whose only possesion is thier religon. Or maybe just one other thing, and AK-47.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

We have yet to devise a scenario for dealing with a people whose only possesion is thier religon. Or maybe just one other thing, and AK-47.

Yup, and some want us to reason with those people

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

No, not what I had in mind at all.
1. Be prepared, militarily and intelligently and show it.
2. Treat other nations fairly.
3. If and when attacked, make an example of them so that even our allies cringe. But attack the offender and only the offender. No phantom WMDs. No they might. Just they did and now they're gone.

You keep saying "when" we're attacked. Why do you want to sit back and wait to get wacked yet again? This is the fundamental differance between the left and the right. The left has your mentality that we should only attack when hit. While the right feels we should hit the enemy hard on thier turf to prevent our citizens from seeing more 9/11's or worse. You just havent learned anything after 9/11 have you?

[spence]

Skippy, nobody is saying we should sit back and wait. But there's a middle ground between that and a liberal application of pre-emptive violence.

You do realize that the reckless and arrogant fools you defend are putting in place a militaristic and political structure for perpetual war don't you?

It's transformation through violence, and in their minds it just might work...

The ironic thing is that many like Cheney, Wolfowitz etc... are serious students of history...yet the historic precident for their actions isn't just absent, it's nearly a reversal of their expected outcome!

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Skippy, nobody is saying we should sit back and wait. But there's a middle ground between that and a liberal application of pre-emptive violence.

You do realize that the reckless and arrogant fools you defend are putting in place a militaristic and political structure for perpetual war don't you?

It's transformation through violence, and in their minds it just might work...

The ironic thing is that many like Cheney, Wolfowitz etc... are serious students of history...yet the historic precident for their actions isn't just absent, it's nearly a reversal of their expected outcome!

-spence

The blueprint for perpetual war is laid out as a directive very clearly in the Koran (look for yourself). Failure to prepare for that perpetual war will only lead us to become victims.

[spence]

Yep, and the Bible says to stone all the gays to death

All the more reason to pragmatically measure our actions. We can't win a militarized war against radical Islam.

There are hundreds of millions of Muslims who don't subscribe to Jihad.

-spence

[Raven]

let yee who is without sin cast the first stone....or was it misinterpreted and it should read: roll the first bone.

the tree of life was a psychadelic mushroom...

the funniest star trek joke was.... when the Saudi Prince
visiting America said to the captain of the enterprise ACTOR...

i very much like the television show star trek....
but i must ask you one question...

why is it that i never see any Arabic people in space?

the Captain hesitates ...then sadly replies
....because in the future there are none.

[Backbeach Jake]

What I've learned from 9/11, Skip is: If we hit them before they hit us, then that makes us them. I don't want to be them.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

What I've learned from 9/11, Skip is: If we hit them before they hit us, then that makes us them. I don't want to be them.

So i'm right....you'd rather have them set off a nuke in Chicago and then strike them. Rather than go on the offensive and protect the people of the US and save our citizens. Wow, thats some scary thinking. I;m sorry but that kinda thinking scares the %$%$%$%$ outta me. And no, you haven't learned a damn thing after 9/11. Your method will get us wiped off the planet by radical Islam. Thank god you will never be president

[bart]

you guys should save your energy, what has bitching on the internet ever accomplished?

[Backbeach Jake]

Originally Posted by Skip N

So i'm right....you'd rather have them set off a nuke in Chicago and then strike them. Rather than go on the offensive and protect the people of the US and save our citizens. Wow, thats some scary thinking. I;m sorry but that kinda thinking scares the %$%$%$%$ outta me. And no, you haven't learned a damn thing after 9/11. Your method will get us wiped off the planet by radical Islam. Thank god you will never be president

Don't want the job.. My point is that we didn't take care of business after we were hit in NY. I think we went after BinLaden half assed. We had him cornered and let a bunch of tribal dolts and crooks go in for the kill in Tora Bora. Well, who woulda guessed that plan would fail? That mountain should be a lake now. I'll stand by my ideals: don't strike first, but when struck lower the boom from hell. if you don't do it that way, if you're always striking first, you only gain enemies, and they are always trying to destroy you. If they are destroyed AFTER they hit first, whoever is still standing might see the benefit in being an ally. Just my thoughts, do you realize that if we were both from the Middle East we'd be looking for blood simply because we disagree? The whole situation is schrod-up. Chicago?

[Raven]

Originally Posted by bart

you guys should save your energy, what has bitching on the internet ever accomplished?

it's our way to vent ,releive stress and communicate...and its our fun.

[Backbeach Jake]

Originally Posted by Raven

it's our way to vent ,releive stress and communicate...and its our fun.

Bingo! we have a winner.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

So i'm right....you'd rather have them set off a nuke in Chicago and then strike them. Rather than go on the offensive and protect the people of the US and save our citizens. Wow, thats some scary thinking. I;m sorry but that kinda thinking scares the %$%$%$%$ outta me. And no, you haven't learned a damn thing after 9/11. Your method will get us wiped off the planet by radical Islam. Thank god you will never be president

Skip, what planet are you posting this nonsense from?

-spence

[Swimmer]

Good idea SkipN, Spence for president. At least he dresses better on the jetty than "W" would.

[Swimmer]

We could suggest SkipN as a rnning mate.

[spence]

I would gladly take Skippy as my running mate. I'm sure a little wardrobe rehab would be necessary, but compared to the challenges facing our great Nation it wouldn't be more than a warm up.

Skip, your duties are to preside over the Senate, carry my plug bag and in case anything happens that impeeds my ability to be president...resign!

-spence

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

Don't want the job.. My point is that we didn't take care of business after we were hit in NY. I think we went after BinLaden half assed. We had him cornered and let a bunch of tribal dolts and crooks go in for the kill in Tora Bora. Well, who woulda guessed that plan would fail? That mountain should be a lake now. I'll stand by my ideals: don't strike first, but when struck lower the boom from hell. if you don't do it that way, if you're always striking first, you only gain enemies, and they are always trying to destroy you. If they are destroyed AFTER they hit first, whoever is still standing might see the benefit in being an ally. Just my thoughts, do you realize that if we were both from the Middle East we'd be looking for blood simply because we disagree? The whole situation is schrod-up. Chicago?

Just used Chicago as an example....

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Raven

it's our way to vent ,releive stress and communicate...and its our fun.

Yup, we may seldom agree but its a way of letting off some steam. And maybe drop an f bomb when needed And the people here who always join the debates may disagree on almost everything but we have one thing in common.....We care about the issues. Unlike most of the country who i really dont think knows whats going on While i disagree with Spence and Nebe on almost everything at least they have opinions, unlike so many who have no clue about anything.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by spence

I would gladly take Skippy as my running mate. I'm sure a little wardrobe rehab would be necessary, but compared to the challenges facing our great Nation it wouldn't be more than a warm up.

Skip, your duties are to preside over the Senate, carry my plug bag and in case anything happens that impeeds my ability to be president...resign!

-spence

Can i hold your black suitcase with the buttons to the nukes please

[Backbeach Jake]

I'll buy that. Most of this country is vapor-locked.

[Skitterpop]

For being able to go to the post office, supermarket, work, Scusset Beach, Plugathon,etc. etc. ....pretty much everywhere...without fear of being blown up. Though I do wonder.
I`m very thankful for these aspects of my life which nowadays I do not take for granted.... I think about it all the time.

Who can say the same?

Its a very tough world out there... here.... always has been.

I`m Thankful,
SkitterPop