Are our soldiers in Iraq going insane? - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

stormfish · 08-08-2006, 09:43 AM

Interesting Article from the LA Times. It appears that 3 soldiers are charge with the rape of a 14 year old Iraqi girl and the murder of her and family. Statement from one of the soldiers "I want to kill and hurt a lot of Iraqis."

It appears that the war is taking toll on our soldiers and it's not a war against Muslim radicals anymore. It's a war against the people of Iraq. Another thing is, will these men who under went traumatic experiences be able to adjust back into America's Society when they return home.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...=la-home-world

Bottomline, the war needs to end! There's no purpose of the war, so why continue to fight? The US needs to help its own people before helping other countries.

PaulS · 08-08-2006, 01:22 PM

Didn't read the article but it prob. has something to do with the mil. lowering standards to help meet their goals. It happens in all wars and if found guilty they should be punished to the full extent for dishonoring the country and the others soldiers who daily go about their duty in an honourable way.

Katie · 08-08-2006, 01:40 PM

I heard about this on the news and i just shook my head.. I think it is taking a toll on the soldiers.. To the point where if you send them back home, 10 months or a year later, then its gonna be really hard to adjust again. Is it true that they started the draft again??

BigFish · 08-08-2006, 01:54 PM

Happens in War folks (unfortunately). Vietnam ring a bell?

Skip N · 08-08-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katie

I heard about this on the news and i just shook my head.. I think it is taking a toll on the soldiers.. To the point where if you send them back home, 10 months or a year later, then its gonna be really hard to adjust again. Is it true that they started the draft again??

No draft, who's spreading that rumor around??

denport · 08-08-2006, 04:53 PM

Just a liitle off topic on this one but...

Remember last week how we were [U]all[U] complaining about how freakin hot is is? A former military man asked me to consider the following statement: Full fatigues, full armor {if they have it}, 100 pound pack, plus weapon and ammo in 100 plus degree heat every day. Not to mention the forced extention of service. This is no excuse for any kind of behavior, but it would be enough to make me more than a little resentful. Like I said, THIS IS NO EXCUSE FOR BEHAVING LIKE AN IDIOT!!!!! It did make me fly off the handle just a bit quicker.

Katie · 08-08-2006, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip N

No draft, who's spreading that rumor around??

my mom...

kevin d · 08-08-2006, 09:14 PM

No excuse for this to happen. Having said that you just have to remember that these things have happened in every war. You want to make sure it doesn't happen again? If they are found guilty, hang them. Set the tone. But there will always be that small percentage in any group that just doesn't get the picture.

basswipe · 08-08-2006, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormfish

Interesting Article from the LA Times. It appears that 3 soldiers are charge with the rape of a 14 year old Iraqi girl and the murder of her and family. Statement from one of the soldiers "I want to kill and hurt a lot of Iraqis."

It appears that the war is taking toll on our soldiers and it's not a war against Muslim radicals anymore. It's a war against the people of Iraq. Another thing is, will these men who under went traumatic experiences be able to adjust back into America's Society when they return home.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...=la-home-world

Bottomline, the war needs to end! There's no purpose of the war, so why continue to fight? The US needs to help its own people before helping other countries.

First of all,not you again.Children like you need to be quiet until you've stepped into the shoes of an actual soldier.

Ever heard of propaganda Stormchild?Its your type who were calling Viet Vets "Baby Killers".Its real easy criticizing the guys fighting YOUR battle while you languish at home.

I can truly say that I HATE people like you.Try stating the obvious,of course the Iraq War needs to end.The guys fighting don't need some little sh!t like you reminding them of THAT!Your attitude isn't much better than that of Bin Laden's but I'll take back the Hate comment.I'm an American......I hate none.

Skitterpop · 08-09-2006, 05:43 AM

No excuses but reasons:

The horrors of war have lead to this behaviour throughout the ages.

They are in a different world. Veritable children many young soldiers are. Going from their small worlds here in the States through blink of the eye training then plugged into the viscious and unforgiving maelstrom of war.

Your best friends who you live with, rely on , fight with, struggle to stay sane and alive with, are often killed before your eyes in the most horrific fashion.

PaulS · 08-09-2006, 07:34 AM

Basswipe - why is it propaganda? Are you saying it didn't happen? No need to show classlessness with the name calling. It sures seems like you have a lot of hate.

JohnR · 08-09-2006, 08:14 AM

I don't think 90% of us here are qualified to judge these guys - myself included.

These guys bust their asses in ways utterly unimaginable to us, living in horific conditions, under unbelievable stress, with the very real thought and possibility that they are not going to go home on their feet but on a medevac to Ramstein or Walter Reed if they are lucky, and even money on a plane to Dover - while we discuss this like experts living back in the Big PX.

This happens in wars, and it is not condonable under any circumstance. It does need to be handled by experts and we must have faith in the system that the proper result comes out.

WE simply cannot judge these guys.

spence · 08-09-2006, 08:33 AM

I'd add the observations of Representative Jack Murtha who has probably spent more time than anyone in Congress with injured Iraq veterans.

It's not enough to say that "stuff happens" in war. The civilian policy mistakes and judgments have put an incredible amount of pressure on our troops...the lessons learned from Vietnam (most notably the Weinberger Doctrine) have been intentionally cast aside...which as voters we need to recognize.

This is the basis for his anger, it's not resentment...but compassion.

-spence

Skip N · 08-09-2006, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basswipe

First of all,not you again.Children like you need to be quiet until you've stepped into the shoes of an actual soldier.

Ever heard of propaganda Stormchild?Its your type who were calling Viet Vets "Baby Killers".Its real easy criticizing the guys fighting YOUR battle while you languish at home.

I can truly say that I HATE people like you.Try stating the obvious,of course the Iraq War needs to end.The guys fighting don't need some little sh!t like you reminding them of THAT!Your attitude isn't much better than that of Bin Laden's but I'll take back the Hate comment.I'm an American......I hate none.

Good post , we all know where Stormfish stands. Once he started spewing his 9/11 conspiracy crap how can anyone take him seriosly?

spence · 08-09-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basswipe

First of all,not you again.Children like you need to be quiet until you've stepped into the shoes of an actual soldier.

A less dangerous approach would be to pick up a copy of Nathianel Fick's most excellent book "The Making of a Marine Officer"...

Excellent objective perspective from the front line.

-spence

fishsmith · 08-09-2006, 09:48 AM

officers don't the fight wars the enlisted do.

spence · 08-09-2006, 09:49 AM

"The Making of a Marine Officer"

-spence

fishsmith · 08-09-2006, 09:54 AM

Thank you spence, your attention to detail is unparalleled.

spence · 08-09-2006, 10:03 AM

You deserve the very best...it's a great book by the way.

-spence

stripersnipr · 08-09-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulS

Basswipe - why is it propaganda? Are you saying it didn't happen? No need to show classlessness with the name calling. It sures seems like you have a lot of hate.

I would never quote anything from the LA Times, NY Times or Boston Globe as fact.

Swimmer · 08-09-2006, 11:07 AM

Stormfish, accused and guilty all in the same post.

If anyone is extended the curtesy of inocent until proven guilty it should be these troops.

If the charges are proven unfounded does anyone realize it would not be the first time since this war has begun that would be so.

If the charges are true then most veterans will tell you that these five individuals involved either were or had the potential to be the type of persons they are accused of being before they entered the armed forces. Some d*%kh#*ds slip through the cracks at entry.

Then again you can't send people to another land to with orders while there to kill people, and expect them always to make the right choices.

stormfish · 08-09-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

I would never quote anything from the LA Times, NY Times or Boston Globe as fact.

Well the article was summerized in the Providence Journal. So I guess Projo isn't classified as Fact either.

You're real classy with your name calling B-asswipe~

And Skippy you've contridicted yourself in this thread. First agreeing with me then being my antagonist...

stripersnipr · 08-09-2006, 01:21 PM

[QUOTE=stormfish]Well the article was summerized in the Providence Journal. So I guess Projo isn't classified as Fact either.

You're real classy with your name calling B-asswipe~

And Skippy you've contridicted yourself in this thread. First agreeing with me then being my antagonist...[/QUOTE

You stand alone

Skitterpop · 08-09-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

I would never quote anything from the LA Times, NY Times or Boston Globe as fact.

just curious....what would you quote?

spence · 08-09-2006, 01:47 PM

Newpapers make mistakes, just because it's printed doesn't make it a "fact".

Now the more respectable media outlets have very strict editorial business processes in place to ensure information is represented correctly and sources are credible.

It's because of this for instance, that you can pretty much be sure if Seymour Hersh writes something damning it's probably true. It's not just his word, but the reputation of the New Yorker standing behind what's written.

It's also why the NY Times took so much flack for the Jason Blair scandal a few years back...although all things considered they are still the standard.

It's also why so many have so little respect for FOX News. Nearly their entire format is opinion, and opinions don't have the same obligation to correct the record.

-spence

stripersnipr · 08-09-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

just curious....what would you quote?

I prefer to conclude my own facts based on an even sided analysis of available sources.

Skitterpop · 08-09-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

I prefer to conclude my own facts based on an even sided analysis of available sources.

me to....but quotes are fun to stir the pot. I often will post quotes knowing they are very one sided just to start a discussion.

and..... Hey Spence!

kevin d · 08-09-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Happens in War folks (unfortunately). Vietnam ring a bell?

It happened in WW I and II, Korea and probably every war that lasted more than a few months. Raping, killing and plundering were considered the "spoils of war" until modern times. We are supposed to be above that now.

spence · 08-09-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin d

We are supposed to be above that now.

I don't think anyone expects it not to happen on a limited basis.

But the big difference here is how early in the conflict the Administration repeatedly denied abuses while it was clear they were going on.

All their "chits" have been squandered on covering up bad policy, and none are left to protect the troops who unfortunately need them at times.

-spence

Skitterpop · 08-10-2006, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin d

It happened in WW I and II, Korea and probably every war that lasted more than a few months. Raping, killing and plundering were considered the "spoils of war" until modern times. We are supposed to be above that now.

In war the word civilized loses all meaning. Except maybe more advanced weapons.