Getting "schooled".

[tlapinski]

How often do you get schooled by a fishing partner? How does this make you feel? It used to be that I would get pissed if a buddy of mine out fished me on a given night. I would get all bent out of shape knowing I wasn't the top dog of the night. As the night would wear on, I would get more and more worked up which probably led me to do even worse.

This season the roles have been reversed and one of my fishing partners has pretty much put me in my place night after night. One night, I stood along side him as he landed several nice fish to the low 30#'s while I landed nothing over 20. On the trip to Cutty last week, I only managed fish into the low 20's while this guy tonged bass to the 30's again. Saturday morning, along side the same guy, I again took fish to about 20#'s while he landed twice as many bass to 28#'s. This was a spot I grew up fishing and he had never made a cast into before this trip. Am I just becoming a better guide this season, or am I slipping?

[eelman]

Seems to me Tlap, that you know what your doing so, I would just say that whats happeneing right now is just a matter of the "other" guy having a horseshoe in his pocket, you getting 20s and him 30s is nothing more that a matter of luck.....your catching, thats all you can ask for, size is something no one can pick and that happens to everyone now and then.

[likwid]

Its fishing with a buddy, not competition.

[BigFish]

I am usually on the short end in my group of fishing buddies......just the luck of the draw I think....occasionally I will come out on top (but not often) however I am always happy for their success as that is what we are there to do....catch fish!

[eelman]

The more guys you fish with the more your chances go down and like bigfish said Its luck of the draw.........I dont like fishing with more than one guy tops

[Flaptail]

INTERESTING THREAD! I beleive in an old golf saying (though I thouroughly detest the "sport") 'You are only as good as the people you play with". If you "play"with mediocre cronies your skill levels will only attain that same level. If you seek out those with, as my friend Alan Cordts says, "the passion" to learn more, find better ways and put in the time, you by your association with these same folks should become better yourself.

Being stubborn in accepting new ways to take fish or accepting new advances in gear technology can hinder you. Look at what is happening these days on the surf fishing scene. Rigged Sluggos, inland black bass techniques of a bullet weight and a large rubber worm taking cows from the surf. Tech lines and braids, fluorocarbon leaders and lines and the latest in reel designs and rod manufacturing with ever lighter components.

If you have that "passionate" drive to be the best you can be and also the desire to asociate yourself with the best at your chosen methodology it would only stand to reason that your success vs. failure rate should begin to tip the scale in your favor.

To be successfull you must make the conscious choice of who to fish with and that should be one of if not the primary task in becoming a better fisherman. As for having nights when the guy next to you is tonging them and your not, that happens more than most people will admit. I can remember a night pitching live eels in the canal where on both sides of me, guys who I was fishing with were on constantly, and I, using the same exact tackle and bait, could not draw a take. I left. Two years ago on Longnook in July Stifftip took 13 beautiful bass on the same exact plug and tackle as I and I was 30 away and got one. Some nights your chi is just not good enough I guess, no matter what you think you know.

Lastly, in another old saying that holds true as we percieve ourselves to be head and shoulders above the "average" casual surfcaster is that "the more you know the less you can be sure of". What that means is sometimes we tend to overthink a situation and in doind so confuse what is usually a very basic situation. I do that all the time and it always kicks me in the head.

[eelman]

"Lastly, in another old saying that holds true as we percieve ourselves to be head and shoulders above the "average" casual surfcaster is that "the more you know the less you can be sure of". What that means is sometimes we tend to overthink a situation and in doind so confuse what is usually a very basic situation. I do that all the time and it always kicks me in the head."


I say this over and over and over and over, the constant over thinking and over analysis makes people fish worse not better.....relax!

[BigFish]

But Flap....you are "head and shoulders" above everyone....even me!

[maddog2020]

It is all about respect. Listen and listen some more - HEAR what is being said and not told.

I get schooled each time I go out and I learn from every time I get skunked. Fishing certain times in a tide cycle is important - some spots are better at low than at high. Im my experiece, you don't know until you try the other end. Currently I haven't made the time to learn any one area THAT well (my family obligations will always come first over any of my hobbies).

I have never cared if I was top dog at anything I ever did in my life. I am not a failure if I don't come out on top. Does that make me a lesser man - NO. I am not going to get into a pissing contest with some one over anything unless I get they are dead wrong. I did graduate validictorian in my 8th grade class - does that count>!? LOL ( I felt 2-3 others were more worthy than myself, but I was a better all around student supposely).

Getting schooled each time out is a good thing - that means you are keeping good company IMHO. Eventually the student becomes better than the masters. That is what I can hope to think that some day I could help some one learn about something I love. If you aren't getting schooled you should find better fishing buddies.
How can you get better if you don't get humbled - that is how I look at it.

I could never be a guide. If I didn't like some one for whatever reason I couldn't take then out and be nice to them. People expect a service and fishing isn't about catching. Some folks can't keep their mouths shut and will post the GPS co-ordinates online. If some one wants to fill their freezer of meat they can go buy the fillets from a market.... LOL. Ok - I rarely have fish in my freezer anyway - it gets eaten shortly when it is available.

Toby - I sent you some pm's last week.

[capesams]

There two of us that alway's fished together, sometimes three..we'd take turn's pissing each other off..then there'd be nite's when we were all matched up.fish for fish......tis life...fish for fun.

[tlapinski]

Originally Posted by likwid

Its fishing with a buddy, not competition.

I never said I was competing, just sort of making an observation out loud. I know a couple reasons why I am not doing as well as I have in past seasons, with less time on the water being the main factor this year. I would be willing to say that most of us are competing with something when we are out, whether it be competing with ourselves for a new personal best or with each other for the fish of the night. Even if you are not willing to say this out loud, I think it is there in some form or another. I think to say you never have an urge to "be the best" at something means you are probably lieing to yourself. A little competition can be a huge driving force to keep me going and make me get out of bed in the middle of the night to go stand in the dark and hurl offerings towards the horizon. The surfcaster I was referring to in the earlier post has paid me some huge compliments over the past couple seasons. I stil say I have learned 10x as much from him and my other fishing partners though! . At times, this has even put some pressure on me mentally when we are out. To see the guys I fish with do well actually makes me feel good about myself these days. I no longer get bothered by this fact. Now, I make notes as to why I did not do as well as I could have. Maybe with age has come humility.

[piemma]

You guys know I fish with RI Rockhound in the surf. He's been my partner for 3 years. Bryan and I never consider it to be a competition. If he beats me on any given night I am happy for him. Same if I beat him. We have never had this "you beat me you
bas*%^$$ted" thing.
I fished with Gil Guilletone for the better part of 20 years till he passed on. Gil and I never had the competion thing. It was as it is with Bryan and I. We are a team. If I need help landing a fish, he's there for me. If he needs a hand, I reel in put my rod down and lend a hand. That's they way it should be. We don't necessarily fish next to each other all the time. But when we do, that's the way it is.

[tlapinski]

I think the idea of competition referred to is being perceived wrong. I was not saying I or anyone I fish with makes a point to do harm to the results of others. I'll be the first one to stop fishing and help land a fish for a friend or to pass along what I am learning to them.

Here is a question that is at the root of the direction this thread is going, how would you define your inner drive to do better?

[tattoobob]

I think if you are catching fish in the 20 pound class consistently you are doing good believe me, you should not be getting pissed off at all you are out in nature, and you have people to fish with. I have to fish alone most of the times because most of the people I know don't fish like I do. the safty factor goes way up when you are alone.

I know it stinks getting the smaller fish but it happens to everybody, funny thing is is that people never post when they get skunked it is only when they have a good night with good fish.

If you are getting mad while fishing maybe you should find something to do that makes you happy.

[Clammer]

Great thread /gotta reread it /but I,m late //gotta get out //

I,mm sure there will be alot more to read later >>>>>

[BigFish]

I know what you are saying T-Lap about the "competition" thing....yeah, I agree with you I think many of us do have that mini "compitition" going on...always wanting that new personal best or at least some fish that make the night memorable!

[Swimmer]

My brother smokes me every time we fish together, but hey, what the hec!

[Rappin Mikey]

I swear to God, and I'm pretty religious, Catholic school and everything. Every time I go fishing with an itchy butt, I out fish everybody on the beach! Actually, sometimes I make sure I have an itchy butt before I go fishing these days.

I know this is gonna be kind of crude, but it has become one of those strange supersticions I have, so please let me explain in detail. First off, lets face it, Everybody tries to take a dump before they embark on an all night fishing excursion. It's easier at home then on the beach/rocks, what ever.

Well, this all began for me when I went fishing on the Cape for a weekend a few years back. I had a slight touch of the stomach flu this particular weekend, and the runs had become an obvious problem. After fighting the traffic for 5 hours, if I remember correctly, it was the weekend of the P-town Gay Parade, out of frustration I decided I would have a few beers. Bad Idea. After number four, my stomach sounded like a perkalator, and I decided to call it quits. I went to bed for a few hours to wait out the tide, got up, and was still feeling quite lousy. Anyway, a little ague isn't stopping this guy. I jumped on the pot took care of buisness and hit the road. However, because of the bug, the preliminary dumpage was not enough to suffice. Let me explain.

I got to the beach, aired down, drove to my spot, tied on, threw the waders on, then it hit me. I felt the rumble in the jungle, thats what I like to call it anyway. There was no way I was driving back off the beach at this point, and I had a few wet wipes. So I decided to go dig a little hole and........ I don't feel I really need to elaborate much further. On second thought, maybe I will anyway.

I don't care who you are, the old emergency situation has happened to evreybody. You all know, you can't get the same wipe on squatting over a hole in the sand as you do at the throne at home. Because of this, after an "emergency situation", one naturally is going to walk away with an itchy butt.

It was one of those mornings when there was a slight sw west out there. Where I was fishing, that wind is at your back, and usually tends to lay things down as far as surf goes. To say the least, I wasn't expecting to have much action. There was a thin fog though, and I like the fog.

When I finally made my first it cast it was still very dark and I was one of the only people on the beach. I believe I was tossing a needle to start. Nothing! I started to cycle through the plug bag to no avail. Everytime I would change up, I would think to myself, "Wow, my butt sure is itchy". Anyway, it got to be false dawn, and I decided I would throw on a yellow canal special. At this point, the beach was crowded. Not to crowded, but you could definitely see a good number of fisherpeople in either direction, none of whom were seeing much action. Well, once I tied on that popper, me and my itchy butt started to slay the fish! The cool thing was everything was on top, and we all know, there is no feeling more exillerating then seeing a good size striper explode on your offering when the rest of the water around is relatively still.

To make a long story shorter, nobody but me landed a striper that morning. I lost two to the seals, and beached 6 between 15 and twenty pounds. I know those aren't huge fish, but they seem big when everyone around you is catching rat blues.

The next morning was a repeat performance, itchy butt and all. I walked away with fish, while everyone else on the beach looked perplexed, I'm sure wondering what my secret was. Little did anyone know, it was just my itchy butt. So, Toby, next time you go fishing with this guy, I don't mind if you utilize this technique. And remember what Confusious said "He who goes fishing with an itchy butt, comes home with a smelly fish finger". I hope this helped.

[jim sylvester]

Originally Posted by piemma

You guys know I fish with RI Rockhound in the surf. He's been my partner for 3 years. Bryan and I never consider it to be a competition. If he beats me on any given night I am happy for him. Same if I beat him. We have never had this "you beat me you
bas*%^$$ted" thing.
I fished with Gil Guilletone for the better part of 20 years till he passed on. Gil and I never had the competion thing. It was as it is with Bryan and I. We are a team. If I need help landing a fish, he's there for me. If he needs a hand, I reel in put my rod down and lend a hand. That's they way it should be. We don't necessarily fish next to each other all the time. But when we do, that's the way it is.

Paul,
same way i am with my fishing partners

If the guy next to me hooks up and says its large, I immediately put my rod down and billy goat over to him to land the fish
it or vice versa

a good laugh is had when the fish is only 15 # and kicks the *(#@ out of you......theres usually some good old fashion busting involved

to put it plain and simple....you fish with your friends, not for competition but for the commradery, memories that I will take to the grave with me

[Raider Ronnie]

I get schooled every time fishing live pogies with Capt. Mike B.
But I would bet most anyone here would also !!!

[Rappin Mikey]

I'm reely not joking about the itchy thing ya know.

[Krispy]

Originally Posted by tlapinski

Am I just becoming a better guide this season, or am I slipping?

Maybe he's bringing you down, I say ditch him!

[Nebe]

T, you know who i used to fish with alot and you know how good he is-
when I was really gettig whooped, he would take the time to watch exacctly what I was doing differently than him and give advice. He would also happily let me stand behind him and study what he was doing so i could learn his techniques.

I never got mad, but i did get a little frustrated. The important thing is to turn that frustration into cureosity and learn from it.

I also learned alot from the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& last year- agian, i never got mad, and asked alot of questions..

Always be open to learn new things, even if you think your way is right.

[Striperhound]

Toby,

You mentioned that your partner fished virgin water to him with you. Since this was new water to him, did you point out and put him in the better spot? I found that I was becoming a better guide putting my brother in the best spots, the rocks I would normally stand on. Little did I know, he got a few extra feet on the cast, had easier access to deep water and caught the better fish. As Bill said, luck is part of the equation but as we all know fishing can be a game of inches.

[piemma]

Clammer is right. This is a great thread. Good idea Toby

[maddog2020]

Great to have a fishing buddy for sure, Piemma! RIRH and you two must have a blast.

My best fishing buddy is gone. Died when I was 19 yrs old - both of us sophmores in college (1983). Had a dream of having a charter business down in FL (both of us were anti-social so I doubt we would have done that.....LOL). He fishes with me when I go out. He kind of makes me get up when I don't want to and drag my butt out there.

Being out on the water - listening to the water and feeling the air blow .... smell of the ocean. Not a worry in the world - life is grand where I catch something or not.

I stopped fishing for a decaded after I lost my best friend.... gave up a lot of things. Started back up .... as if I never stopped. Two idiots standing in the water cracking the ice off our guides when we couldn't feel our hands.... LOL.

Sorry - getting a little sentimental.

Luck does help over skill sometimes. I had some newbies out before & they caught way more and larger fish than myself ! Made me feel good that I was able to get another "HOOKED" on to fishing.

Ran into a young boy - may be 10'ish fishing up near Gloucester/Rockport area last Wednesday just before sunset. He was using some white Storms on an outfit that was his grandfathers = he said his GF loved to fish and had the gear in the garage so he decided to use it. 6.5' Conventional boat rod w/ Baitrunner 4500A on it w/ some 20 lb mono - he didn't care ... he caught a couple of schoolies. I was having good luck w/ a Yozuri Hydro Popper and fish were exploding under it sending in couple of feet in the air.... lol. After catching a lot of schoolies I decided to call it quits and have dinner w/ my elderly friend who was staying at the Inn next to the beach. I unhook my lure and walked over to the boy and said "here, take this - it's working pretty well for me". Kids now a days could be learning to do a lot worse things than to fish. More the merrier IMHO - can't have enough kids fishing! My elderly friend saw me give the lure away and asked me what I was using and I told him it was the lure I had given to him earlier that afternoon to use.

I enjoy people discovering a new hobby. Nothing brings more cheer to me than a kid catching a fish and running back to their folks screaming ..... look .... look .... I caught a big one!

[RickBomba]

I can't believe nobody said anything about the itchy butt story.
Mikey was so proud of himself that he called me at work at three pm on a rainy Sunday with a 4pm Pats game on.
Words can't describe how busy it was.
He was so giddy that he really couldn't talk.
Maybe we should all pm him and tell him how great his story was.
I don't know what it had to do with getting schooled.
Is he trying to tell us all that only the "itchy butts" will catch the "worm?"
I usually only get schooled by Mikey...I've schooled him before, many times, though.
I have a real problem with competitive fishing, I really only care about how much fun I'm having when I'm out, large, schoolies, or nada.
Had a ball with one of my best friends the other day, and between the both of us, I caught one six pound fish.
If you're catching and I'm not, I'll watch and learn...I wont try to mucle in on your spot, just stand very non-chalantly and look at what you're doing.
Still amazes me that one of my best friends will fish right next to me with 30 year old line and a 10 dollar rod, with a bright green bucktail at RP and still be the only guy on the beach that managed a fish in the middle of the day, and never has seals in front of him.
He'll tell you he's the worst fisherman in the world, but he catches.
Y'all know the Beatitudes with the meek thing...he's straight up meek!
OK gotta be back to work in 8 hours.
Later,
Rick

[tattoobob]

The itchy butt story was great, all you need is a hemoroid and your all set it will never stop itching

[RickBomba]

In the eight minutes it took me to post, Mikey has been monitoring the site too see if I replied, then just called me to ask how funny I thought it was.
He really is proud of his itchy butt.
Itchy butt brother, clothing optional father (hope he doesn't read this, he hates that stuff."
Good thing my girl's normal.
Later,
Rickman

[Goose]

I been there and yeah its very frustrating. At times I know why it happened and other times I can only guess.
If one guy has knowledge of that area he's gonna know where most of the fish are taken. Sometimes its a flip of the coin(you take that rock I take this one) or hole ect. and there ain't chit you can do to control that.
I've been over big schools of fish and can't put fish in the boat while the guy next to me is bailing'um, wtf . Alot can be said about haveing the natural feel in what ever style of fishing your doing and with that comes confidence. It isn't easy being a good jigger but when your taught by a good jigger and fish side by side you know what feeling expect....same can be said for eels, plugs ect.