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Old 12-20-2006, 05:23 PM   #1
likwid
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If you want to fish Cuttyhunk.... you better start exercising those legs.

The high dirt road around the back to pigs is closed.

Naushon Island Trust private property.
They will not be allowing anyone on that road without permission.

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Old 12-20-2006, 05:35 PM   #2
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Who Is going to stop People from going down it?

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Old 12-20-2006, 05:38 PM   #3
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People push, they will squeeze.

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Old 12-20-2006, 05:39 PM   #4
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Whatever! They gonna have a guard there 24/7? Or put up a fence? I think.....not!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:42 PM   #5
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Last fall they had a chain pulled across two poles and the chain was laying on the ground. I don't think it is the fishermen they want to keep out, I think it is the rich kids driving golf carts all over the Island all hours of the night drinking.

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Old 12-20-2006, 05:44 PM   #6
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Worst case you have to fish the beach all the way down and all the way back! Boo hoo!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:46 PM   #7
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Or the locals with the quads?

It doesn't make sense that they would want to keep hardcore surfcasters off the path. I don't see the reason for that.
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Old 12-20-2006, 06:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tattoobob View Post
Last fall they had a chain pulled across two poles and the chain was laying on the ground. I don't think it is the fishermen they want to keep out, I think it is the rich kids driving golf carts all over the Island all hours of the night drinking.
The few ruin it for everyone.

Its all private property of the Naushon Island Trust anyhow. They can put up a stockade fence with razorwire on top and trained pitbulls inside if they want.

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Old 12-20-2006, 07:48 PM   #9
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they were surveying that end last year just for that reason.

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Old 12-20-2006, 08:08 PM   #10
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Thumbs down the biggest bolt cutters

are not that expensive at Sears
i was lookin at them this afternoon...
i need a new pair
...mine are kinda worn out now...
from cutting locks
SO.....combined with a battery powered sawz- all
and my forty foot heavy chain, plus a four wheel drive
they will cancel out any gate in no time....
------------------------------------------------------------------
if silence is required instead........i'd just pour corrosive chemicals
on the fence combined with rope & potatoe sacks
filled with big rocks...or heavy garbage bags filled with sand

and totally melt it ....and make it all sag...over night
it's all play time.....

and thats only if my key collection didnt work
i hate all that private- world CRAP
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:00 PM   #11
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Ahhh internet tough guys.

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Old 12-20-2006, 09:40 PM   #12
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I am thinking Bonnie from the fishing club has a key, and unlocks it when need be.

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Old 12-21-2006, 07:53 AM   #13
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so how do you get permission knowitall?
I don't see the harm walking those roads to get south.

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!

It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:56 AM   #14
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If Only...

... they would see anglers as partners in conservation. You think anyone paying to fish Cutty is going to throw trash around and damage the ecosystem? I don't. Seems like a job for RISSA or a similar organization to work out with the Trust. I don't think tough guy talk paints a good picture of us. We need to be partners and allies, not adversaries. JMHO.
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:58 AM   #15
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by likwid View Post
They can put up a stockade fence with razorwire on top and trained pitbulls inside if they want.
hush puppy



problem solved.

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Old 12-21-2006, 08:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
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The high dirt road around the back to pigs is closed.

Naushon Island Trust private property.
They will not be allowing anyone on that road without permission.
That's what happens when the interblab and articles get written on how good it is there. Thre is a lesson here if you read between the lines. Cutty is thei and Cutty is that and now Cutty is going to war aginst the plundering hordes. (Used to be a nice place, oh well....)

Why even try.........
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:40 AM   #17
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Flap,
Never been there, was debating this fall, but I thought the same thing, especially with articles about it....

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:52 AM   #18
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I have always walked the beach anyway. Walked completely around the island several times that way.

Same thing happend to block Island in the late 70's and early 80's. I recall a magazine cover with title.."Bass Island" and the guy holding a 50. Soon a lot of out of state plates were there. CH will only recieve the hard core guys. Few want to walk on rocks day and night with no vehicle around.
I plan my trips when there is no contest or event going on. I try to do it the week after these events. This way I get good reports and no people around. I have never been a fan of "gang fishing" where 20 guys decend on the beach. I would rather go by myself or with friend. I think you loose the beautiful solitude the place has to offer when going with a crowd. Further, I think these large group outings bring over a lot of guys the would not go otherwise. TV shows and articles about CH don't bother me too much. It is not a place most fishermen would tackle alone for the first time. They want to go with a big group first. Block and the other islands are different, you have a vehicle and lots of choices with regard to fishing and non-fishing activities.

Last edited by Mr. Sandman; 12-21-2006 at 11:17 AM..
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Old 12-21-2006, 09:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipknot View Post
so how do you get permission knowitall?
You don't.

Here's an excerpt from an article about Cuttyhunk.
If you don't get it from this, then I can't help you.

A few years ago, a woman from Cuttyhunk and an off-islander friend were watching a bulldozer at work filling in a marsh. The friend asked her if the landowners had gotten clearance from the local conservation commission. "What conservation commission?" she asked. "The one that administers the Wetlands Protection Act," he said. "What Wetlands Protection Act?" she asked. "The state Wetlands Protection Act," he said, to which she replied, with a slight smile, "What state?"

Quote:
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That's what happens when the interblab and articles get written on how good it is there. Thre is a lesson here if you read between the lines. Cutty is thei and Cutty is that and now Cutty is going to war aginst the plundering hordes. (Used to be a nice place, oh well....)
Which brings it back up on the subject how would you feel about people wandering in your yard day and night acting like you own the place? Wouldn't like it would you? One group screws up, everyone pays for it.

The Elizabeth Islands have stayed pristine because of their owners. They're kept far prettier and cleaner than any park service could ever do.

Last edited by likwid; 12-21-2006 at 09:53 AM..

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Old 12-21-2006, 10:06 AM   #20
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what are you saying? that people are walking over peoples yards acting like they own the place? That doesn't sound like the fisherman that go over there to catch fish and might stay at one of the Inns over there. There are plenty of boaters that go there to explore the island and enjoy it also, do you live there? Have we as fishermen ruined things over there talking about it on the internet? I don't mind walking the shoreline, what's the big deal if private property is kept private? It won't bother me, the few times I've been and will go. So you say without permission you won't be allowed to walk the dirt road, and you can't get permission, what happens if you trespass anyway?
isn't the fishing better from sailboats anyway?

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!

It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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Old 12-21-2006, 10:57 AM   #21
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Its private property. They set the rules on the island however they want.
How hard is that to understand?
And considering how many people were on the island this past year compared to past years, I'm sure they're ready to make an example of someone.

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isn't the fishing better from sailboats anyway?
Certainly a lot cheaper than a stinkpot even with the gas price down.

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Old 12-21-2006, 11:35 AM   #22
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If its private property and they want to close it,,, o'well. They own it. wuttayagonnado?

Sooner or later you're going to realize just as I did that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. - Morpheus
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Old 12-21-2006, 01:01 PM   #23
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http://www.munsonboats.com/

if i had the $$ i would love to get somethingn like this and do surfcasting charters to places you cant get to anyother way..

Last edited by Nebe; 12-21-2006 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 12-21-2006, 01:06 PM   #24
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This thread is like beating a dead house, It is a waste of time and we can't do any thing about it. It will keep the lazy/fat/old people out

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Old 12-21-2006, 01:09 PM   #25
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It's nice to be able to blame the people you know - but it's just the general mean spirit of the rich and their wish to keep the "exclude" in exclusive.
I hope they get visited by three ghosts...

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Old 12-21-2006, 01:16 PM   #26
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I believe pretty much the entire western half of the island is private. You should not be on that road, ever. I think it belongs to the Spaldings (sports equip mogal). There is a modest house at the end, I thought that road was his.

Technically speaking, in MA, even walking along the beach is considered tresspassing. Property owners actually own (and pay taxes on) the land that goes out into the water aways. Don't ask me how it became that way. I am strongly oppossed to this but that is what I have been told by owners of waterfront land. It is not like BI where the public can walk along the entire shore anywhere without any problem.

There is a 1600 something (or really old) "law" in MA that says if you are fishing or fowling you can walk along the shore in the water below the low tide line TO GET BY but technically your feet have to be wet to do this. Some refer to this as the "wet feet" law. Also, I am not so sure this "law" of that age will hold up if really pressed. I don't have a copy anymore but think it says you may only pass-by to get to a spot, not actually fish or hunt there. I think many owners of waterfront land have been there for a long time and understand the desire for fishermen and locals to access to fish and hunt and generally allow it out of the goodness of their hearts. But I tell you if it were my property and I saw 20 guys coming over for a commando trip contributing nothing to anyone, I would press the issue...but that is me and I don't live on waterfront land. From experience, it is best to maintain a "low profile" anyplace you fish esp on or even NEAR private property and don't bother ANYONE. You might consider asking for permission instead of just doing it. If you just do it without asking, go in with no more then 2 fishermen, go in late and come out early and don't tresspass near any homes, don't PO anyone, act like a gentlemen, respect their property...after all it IS theirs, and don't act like a whacko if you ever want to go again.
But that is just my advice.
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Old 12-21-2006, 01:25 PM   #27
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I think many owners of waterfront land have been there for a long time and understand the desire for fishermen and locals to access to fish and hunt and generally allow it out of the goodness of their hearts. But I tell you if it were my property and I saw 20 guys coming over for a commando trip contributing nothing to anyone, I would press the issue...but that is me and I don't live on waterfront land. From experience, it is best to maintain a "low profile" anyplace you fish esp on or even NEAR private property and don't bother ANYONE. You might consider asking for permission instead of just doing it. If you just do it without asking, go in with no more then 2 fishermen, go in late and come out early and don't tresspass near any homes, don't PO anyone, act like a gentlemen, respect their property...after all it IS theirs, and don't act like a whacko if you ever want to go again.
But that is just my advice.
I agree, you cant begrudge the wealthy for having whats theirs.
Keep your head down, your lights off and dont be seen.

Sooner or later you're going to realize just as I did that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. - Morpheus
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Old 12-21-2006, 01:25 PM   #28
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big frieken deal


If you don't want to trespass, walk the water

if you want to trespass, climb over the damn chain like andre the giant getting into the ring

big deal

end it

ps: merry christmas
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Old 12-21-2006, 01:27 PM   #29
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MA laws

Public Rights/Private Property:
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions on Beach Access

Brought to you as a public service by:
One Ashburton Place
Boston, MA 02108
(617) 727-2200
www.ago.state.ma.us

Summertime. The living is easy. Fish are jumpin'. And right now somewhere along the Massachusetts coast, two people are arguing over whether one of them may walk along the other's beach.

Few issues in Massachusetts can be counted on as such a regular source of conflict. One reason for this is that in the face of the overwhelming desire for people to use our beaches, our laws are not very "friendly" toward beach access. This is because, some 350 years ago, our forefathers gave away much of the public's rights to use the coastline in an attempt to spur the development of wharfs and maritime commerce. On top of that, our laws in this area are complex, confusing, and- to an extent that is surprising in light of centuries of court battles- uncertain.

The result is conflict. Those who own property along the coast clash with those who want to walk along it, often without either really knowing what their rights and obligations are. Indeed, sometimes police officers and other public officials called in to deal with this conflict are themselves unclear about the respective rights and responsibilities.

The purpose of this pamphlet is to try to help people understand the law in this area, to the extent that it has been settled. We have tried to provide simple answers to commonly-asked questions about the ownership of the coast. Our hope is that by informing the public of the law, we can move beyond needless conflicts and toward more consensual solutions to the beach access issue. In particular, we have highlighted ways that coastal owners who want to let the public gain access through or along their property can do so while avoiding liability and at the same time preserving their own property rights.

Of necessity, we can state what the public's rights are only in general terms. There are many complications that may arise in individual circumstances.
Questions & Answers

Q: "Someone told me that beaches are privately owned in Massachusetts all the way down to the low tide line. How can that be?"

A: Each state has its own laws regarding who owns the beach. In most coastal states, the public owns the land seaward of the high tide line, and in some states public ownership extends even higher. Massachusetts is different, however. The Massachusetts courts have consistently ruled that in the 1640s, we gave away title to the land between the mean high tide line and the low tide line to the adjacent upland owners. Therefore, this area- known as the "intertidal zone" or "wet sand area" is- generally privately owned in Massachusetts.

Q: "So you're saying that if I own the adjacent upland land, I therefore own the adjacent wet sand area?"

A: Probably, but not necessarily. It is possible that the interest in the wet sand area was separately conveyed ("severed") from the uplands parcel at some time in the past. A final answer to this question may require a complete title search, and even then you might not have a definitive answer. If this issue cannot be resolved by the available evidence, the upland owner is presumed to own the adjacent wet sand area. The boundary issues can be resolved in Land Court.

Q: "You said that I can own down to the 'low tide line,' but the low tide line changes every day. What low tide line are you talking about?"

A: Because the precise tide lines change daily, the average or mean low tide line is used. There is an ongoing dispute, however, as to whether you should use the so-called "mean low tide" line or the "mean extreme low tide line." The former is the average of all low tides, while the latter is the average of extreme low tides "resulting from usual causes and conditions."

Q: "How do you deal with the fact that over time the coastline builds up in certain areas and washes away in others?"

A: The short answer to this question is that the property lines move with the low tide line. Therefore, as land is extended by the natural buildup of sand (known as "accretion"), the private property owners generally enjoy a windfall. But when the opposite happens ("reliction"), the private property owners generally lose ownership of that portion of the land taken by the sea. The fact that property lines change with the whims of the oceans is one of the things that makes private ownership of this area different from private ownership of inland property.

Q: "If I own the wet sand area, why are members of the public claiming they can use it?"

A: Private ownership of the wet sand area is subject to certain public rights that were reserved when the land became private in the first place. Because the public-at-large retains a property interest in the wet sand area, the private owners' property interest in this area is similar to that of people who own private property in other areas subject to public easements (for example, people who abut town roads typically own to the middle of the road, subject to the public's right of passage).

Q: "What are the rights that were reserved to the public?"

A: The original laws that granted private ownership reserved the rights of "fishing, fowling, and navigation." Court cases have also held that reserved public rights include the "natural derivatives" of these uses. There are hundreds of years of court cases that attempt to flesh out precisely what these various words mean.

Q: "Does 'fishing' include shellfishing?"

A: Yes. That means that members of the public may take shellfish from the wet sand area of privately owned property and they may walk along the wet sand area to gain access to the shellfish.

Q: "Does the public's right to use the wet sand area for fishing include the right to do aquaculture, such as quahog farming?"

A: The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court concluded that the public. s right to fish in the wet sand area does not include a right to occupy such areas with aquaculture pens. As a result, someone who wants to perform these aquaculture activities in wet sand areas must obtain the permission of the private owner in addition to applicable state and local licenses.

Q: "What is 'fowling'?"

A: "Fowling" certainly includes the hunting of birds. Our office takes the position that the term also includes other ways that birds can be "used," such as birdwatching. This issue has not yet been addressed by the courts.

Q: "Does 'navigation' include swimming?"

A: Yes, but. According to the courts, swimming in the intertidal zone is included within the reserved public right of navigation, but only so long as your feet don't touch the bottom! And you don't have a right to walk along the wet sand area solely for the purpose of gaining access for swimming.

Q: "What about walking below the low tide line?"

A: Private property owners cannot interfere with the public's right to walk along the submerged lands that lie seaward of the low tide line. With few exceptions, they don't own that land; the public does.

Q: "Since members of the public have the right to fish, fowl, and navigate in the wet sand area, then they can do whatever fishing, fowling, and navigation they want to do there, right?"

A: So far, we've just been talking about ownership issues. Just as a private property owner's rights are subject to reasonable regulation, the same is true of the public's reserved rights. Thus, for example, the government may require shellfishermen to obtain all applicable state and local permits and to comply with applicable shellfishing regulations. And, of course, members of the public who exercise their public rights to use the wet sand area must comply with other laws, such as the prohibition on littering and the creation of nuisances.

Q: "I've heard people say that all I really need to do to 'be legal' is to carry a fishing line in my pocket?"

A: Carrying a fishing line or a fishing pole would render your walking along the wet sands area legal only if you actually intended to fish.

Q: "Does the public have a right to use off-road vehicles over the wet sand areas to gain access for fishing?"

A: The Supreme Judicial Court has never ruled on whether driving an off-road vehicle across private wet sand areas for the purposes of gaining access to fishing areas is included within the public's right to fish. In any event, the use of off-road vehicles may be regulated by the government.

Q: "Like many of my fellow property owners, I don't mind the public walking along my wet sand area even if they are not 'fishing, fowling, or navigating,' so long as by allowing this, I don't lose any property rights in the process. Is there some way that I can be a 'good citizen' and still retain my property rights?"

A: Yes. What you appear to be worried about is the legal concept known as "prescription" or "adverse possession." This is the idea that if someone uses your property for a sufficiently long time, they may be able to claim a property interest in it. For someone to be able to make this claim, however, their use has to be without your permission. Therefore, openly allowing the public to walk across your land (e.g., by "posting" such permission) is perhaps the best way of defeating someone's ability to accrue such a right. Posting the land in this manner, of course, would not affect any access rights that anyone had already obtained before the posting.

Q: "O.K., that may solve one problem, but how about liability?"

A: Under existing state law, a property owner who allows the public to use his or her land for recreational purposes without charging for such use is shielded from liability for injuries sustained during that use so long as the property owner did not bury hidden boobytraps or otherwise act with such "fault" that his or her conduct constituted "wilful, wanton or reckless conduct." Here again, the best way for coastal property owners to protect themselves may be to allow the public to walk across their land.

Q: "Wasn't there a state law passed a few years ago that gave the public a right to walk along the wet sand area even if they weren't fishing, fowling, or navigating"?

A: Not exactly. You're referring to chapter 176, section 4 of the Acts of 1991. That law states that the public is to have a general right to walk along the wet sand area during dawn to dusk hours. Such a right is not effective, however, unless the state Department of Environmental Management (DEM) acquires it on behalf of the public through formal eminent domain proceedings involving the specific properties affected, where the private property owners from whom the right was acquired would be compensated.

Q: "How much compensation would a private landowner be due if the state "took" a general easement right pursuant to the 1991 law?"

A: The property owner would be owed the amount, if any, that the market value of his or her land was reduced by the fact that the public now had a general right to walk across the wet sand area, not just to do so for fishing, fowling, and navigation.

Q: "You've talked so far about access along the beach. How about access from inland areas to the beach?"

A: Generally speaking, the land inland of the mean high tide line is owned by private parties, just like other land. Members of the public therefore do not have a right to walk across this land unless they individually or collectively have obtained such a right, or if, in particular circumstances, such rights were reserved when the land was initially granted to a private party. Rights of access can be purchased or taken by eminent domain, or they may be acquired by long term use (e.g., by the doctrine of "prescription" mentioned above).

Q: "How can I resolve whether the public has a right to cross a particular parcel of private property to get to the sea?"

A: Unfortunately, resolving whether the public . or some subset of the public . has a right to use a given path can often be very difficult, requiring an intensive examination of the particular facts and evidence at issue. It can also be very expensive for both sides, especially if a full trial is needed to resolve the issues. As with the wet sand area discussed above, private property owners who want to protect their property rights, but who otherwise don't mind others walking across their land, can accomplish this by "posting" their permission. This would not, of course, affect any access rights that the public had already obtained before the posting.

Q: "What if I want to mediate a coastal access dispute?"

A: One resource to consider is the Massachusetts Office of Dispute Resolution (MODR), an institute of the University of Massachusetts Boston (formerly a state agency). MODR promotes and facilitates the use of dispute resolution by public agencies, municipalities, businesses, non-profit organizations and citizens of the Commonwealth. MODR works with these groups to resolve disputes collaboratively and to create effective programs to prevent and manage conflict. MODR services include mediation, facilitation, public participation, consensus building, systems design and skill-building training. Services are provided on a fee-for-service basis, through highly-experienced qualified conflict resolution practitioners who are staff or affiliates of MODR. To learn more about MODR, log on to MODR’s website: at www.umb.edu/modr or contact MODR at the University of Massachusetts Boston, 100 Morrissey Boulevard, M-1-627, Boston, MA 02125; phone: (617) 287-4040; fax: (617) 287-4049.

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Old 12-21-2006, 01:29 PM   #30
Back Beach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by likwid View Post
The high dirt road around the back to pigs is closed.

Naushon Island Trust private property.
They will not be allowing anyone on that road without permission.
And this was confimed by who and when? Just curious, never fished there.
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