Gamefish Status???

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

I think CCA is hoping ASMFC will open up the EEZ for recreational fishing. They have been in favor of opening the EEZ for some time.

That would be bad

Yeah, I guess this is what I was thinking about... and gamefish status could make this more likely to happen.

[Sweetwater]

I agree with the sentiments that the problem is certainly not the biomass of striped bass but the biomass of forage species such as menhaden and herring (especially river herring). Protect that forage and keep reasonable limits (like the ones we have now) on the take of striped-bass. Also, they need to open the EEZ to the recreational take of striped bass.

[riverrat55]

This is a ploy by Bush to show that he cares about the environment!!!
EEZ zones are already non-fishing zones for striped bass, so by making striped bass a gamefish(no Comm allows) changes nothing in the Zones, because there is no fishing allowed there now anyways!!!
The Federal Govt can mandate laws outside the 3 mile zone!!! Inside that area,States and only States can mandate the laws they want!!! That is why every State has different rules about fishing!!!
You can bet if there were huge oir reserves in the EEZ Zones, that Bush and his oil buddies would be pushing Congress to open it for drilling!!!
Don't Be Fooled!!!

[Finaddict]

Politcal actions aside ... I agree with Patrick's assesment and I agree that fishing was better with one fish at 36 inches ...

[piemma]

1 fish a day, 36" minimum. You that are old enough remember the Bass Moritorium. We had 1 fish 36" then 1 fish 34" and the stocks came back strong.

There are those of us that don't keep fish under 36" anyway, but I see guys even in the boats keeping 28" fish all the time. I think it's a waste.

Like Nebe and some others said, protect the forage fish so the Bass grow big and strong and up the size and drop the daily bag limit. If we can figure this out why the hell do the bureaucrats have such a hard time with it?

[Mr. Sandman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

this would be great!! take the friggin price of the fish's head please.

BINGO! We have a winner!!!

This, along with sensible rec, forage fish and indiscriminate comm fishing management

There is a huge black market, this is ignored.

Recs are not doing near the damage that we are led to believe.

Bycatch kill will be a continued nightmare, this should put a spotlight on the issue and might have an impact on dragging.

The EEZ is NOT patrolled anyway. Most anglers don't even know what the EEZ is or where it is. Making it a game fish is a smart idea and will ease the enforcement issue.

[EricM]

Agreed with the proposition to return to 1 fish a day, 36" minimum, all up and down the coast.

As a practical question, what is the best means to advance this proposal? Are there any organizations that are supporting this that, in turn, deserve our support? Let me know.

[piemma]

I think CCA and Stripers Forever both support increased size limits.

[zimmy]

[QUOTE=piemma;533397]1 fish a day, 36" minimum. You that are old enough remember the Bass Moritorium. We had 1 fish 36" then 1 fish 34" and the stocks came back strong.

There are those of us that don't keep fish under 36" anyway, but I see guys even in the boats keeping 28" fish all the time. I think it's a waste.

QUOTE]

I sincerely would like to know why is better to take over 36"? My instinct is that it is better to keep the breeders in the stock.

Is it because less people catch em that size so the overall take would be reduced? Is it that they have at least had a chance to spawn? Actually, i'll move this to a new thread...

[RIROCKHOUND]

QUOTE]
Is it because less people catch em that size so the overall take would be reduced?

Is it that they have at least had a chance to spawn? Actually, i'll move this to a new thread...[/QUOTE]

Yes and Yes IMHO

[piemma]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

QUOTE]
Is it because less people catch em that size so the overall take would be reduced?

Is it that they have at least had a chance to spawn? Actually, i'll move this to a new thread...

Yes and Yes IMHO[/QUOTE]

Point on Bryan. The proof that the increased size limit and reduced bag limit are evidenced by the robust rebound of the Striper stocks.
Probably one of the few things the fisheries management guys did correctly.
Of course the jury is out as to whether it would work again. I know in the mid to late 80s the Bass fishing was awful. Once the moritorium was instituted, the stocks rebounded. Whether this is cyclical or a direct result of the conservation measures is a moot point. The fact is, it worked.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

There is a huge black market, this is ignored.

The only way to stop this is to shut down all comm fishery for striped bass period.

Nobody able to sell = easy to catch the black market sales.

[deputydog]

Originally Posted by piemma

I think CCA and Stripers Forever both support increased size limits.

I can't speak for the CCA but Stripers Forever has no position on bag limits and never has. Many members favor a slot limit in the 20-26" range or a trophy fish, but the organization's only official goal is game fish status (no commercial harvest)


As for the assertion that CCA has supported the opening of the EEZ, that's also incorrect. CCA pushed hard to keep it closed for all fishermen, recs and comms. So did Stripers Forever.

The notion that this move is a sneaky way of getting the EEZ open for recs after shutting it permanently for commercial fishing is just that, a notion. The comments received by NMFS regarding the reopening of the EEZ were overwhelmingly in favor of keeping it closed, and I mean 90% territory

[macojoe]

I think Bush should stay with something he knows about!! Wait he doesn't no anything!!

Leave the fish alone and figure out the war that he has asked 190 something Billion dollars for in the last 3 weeks!!

You no when my ck book is empty I have to wait for the next pay day!!

Bushes ck book ran out 100 trillion dollars ago, and he is still spending!!

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by deputydog

I can't speak for the CCA but Stripers Forever has no position on bag limits and never has. Many members favor a slot limit in the 20-26" range or a trophy fish, but the organization's only official goal is game fish status (no commercial harvest)
As for the assertion that CCA has supported the opening of the EEZ, that's also incorrect. CCA pushed hard to keep it closed for all fishermen, recs and comms. So did Stripers Forever.
The notion that this move is a sneaky way of getting the EEZ open for recs after shutting it permanently for commercial fishing is just that, a notion. The comments received by NMFS regarding the reopening of the EEZ were overwhelmingly in favor of keeping it closed, and I mean 90% territory

Right there is my BIGGEST problem with these org's.
No reduction in bag for stripers (for recs) but a complete clousre for commercials
.
Why do commercials take the only hit?
If changes need to be made, do it on both sides of the ball. Bycatch and others are issues, but like flap mentioned, let's get it back to full-time commercial guys. Their catch is still remarkably lower than rec take. We need to tighten up the commercial regs (I sat in a meeting last year next to DZ and we were both amazed that a CT guys can still hold a RI commercial striper license... something aint right there.) AND drop the bag and up the size to1 fish @ 36". Unless the biology shows me otherwise (and I'm not smart enough to understand detailed fish biology) a slot limit is tougher to enforce, encourages more small fish poaching and is probably only supported by the light-tackle schoolie crowd who couldnt catch a 36" fish...
rant over

[deputydog]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Right there is my BIGGEST problem with these org's.
No reduction in bag for stripers (for recs) but a complete clousre for commercials
.
Why do commercials take the only hit?
If changes need to be made, do it on both sides of the ball. Bycatch and others are issues, but like flap mentioned, let's get it back to full-time commercial guys. Their catch is still remarkably lower than rec take. We need to tighten up the commercial regs (I sat in a meeting last year next to DZ and we were both amazed that a CT guys can still hold a RI commercial striper license... something aint right there.) AND drop the bag and up the size to1 fish @ 36". Unless the biology shows me otherwise (and I'm not smart enough to understand detailed fish biology) a slot limit is tougher to enforce, encourages more small fish poaching and is probably only supported by the light-tackle schoolie crowd who couldnt catch a 36" fish...
rant over

Bryan,
You bring up the main reason that Stripers Forever doesn't advocate for a specific bag limit for stripers. You could get a dozen ardent anglers in a discussion and get no consensus among them on what the appropriate limits should be. If the fish were managed exclusively for recreational fishing the fisheries managers could stop worrying about killing every fish up to their target levels designed to reach "maximum sustainable yield", and worry about achieving a healthy population throughout the fish's age range. It would be easy to set bag limits coast-wide and recreational anglers would accept them. They may grouse and whine, but they'll accept them.

If you limited the commercial bass season in Massachusetts to "full- time commercial guys" (residents only), you could fit them all in a small room. I would assume the RI group would take an even smaller room.

Personally, I like the slot limits. The Maine reg of 1 fish between 20-26" OR one over 40" works just fine.Sure there are knuckleheads who don't adhere to the regs but that happens everywhere.
I've caught plenty of big fish. I release them because they are all female and the prime spawners in the population. Smaller fish taste better anyway. You kill those big fish why exactly?

Market gunning for ducks and geese ended seventy years ago. That was a few commercial guys squandering a public resource for personal gain. Stripers are a lot more popular as a public resource today than waterfowl were then. How about leaving a single fish species for the public?

[RIROCKHOUND]

If I kill a fish it is usually a larger one.
I can release smaller fish quickly, with less stress, and in a lot of the places I fish larger fish can come in pretty beat to hell.

As far as smaller fish tasting better; I believe that as far as I can throw a 30lb bass. I've never had a problem with bigger fish tasting bad, IF they are cared for properly.

To me it remains a fish grab for stripers with those groups, whether they push for bag limit or not. WE (recs; I'm not commercial) HAVE NO MORE right to the fish than the commercials do.

As far as fitting them into one room for each state, is exactly one of the problems... maybe too many full-timers have been pushed out already.

The easiest way to manage is not the always the best, especially in this case!

[riverrat2]

Bryan is right on. Commercial fisherman are always made out to be the bad guys but in the end it is the rec group that does way more damage. Longer season, WAY more fisherman, poaching, no set quota whatsoever=a lot more damage done on the fish. I also agree that only people whos main source of income has to do with commercial fishing should be able to fish the season. To many people use the season as an excuse to fill the boat with bass, take pictures and pay for half the fuel for the year. In return if they eliminated this crowd from the season it would last longer and benefit the people that actually depend on that chunk of cash as part of there total income.

And oh ya I don't want to hear it about conn people fishing the very limited RI season when at one point two seasons ago the majority of the fleet fishing the MA season were from RI. Especially considering we dont have the option to fish yours.

[deputydog]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

To me it remains a fish grab for stripers with those groups, whether they push for bag limit or not. WE (recs; I'm not commercial) HAVE NO MORE right to the fish than the commercials do.

That's where we part company. How can you justify that statement? If recreational striper fishermen outnumber commercial fishermen 600 to 1, and they do) than the resource should be divided that way: 99%+ to the recs and the balance to the commercials. Anyone would then say, "let's round it up to 100%."

Why shouldn't I be allowed to kill and sell black ducks and geese with, say, a daily limit of 10 each? How about brook trout? I know a place where I can easliy catch a couple dozen a day. Why can't I do that and sell them to the local restaurants?. Well there's a couple of reasons. First, I could kill or catch that game and fish because there is no commercial season which has allowed the populations to expand to current levels; and second, because those critters belong to all of us, not just to em and a few buddies.

We're not talking about monkfish or hake, we're talking about the single most sought after fish on the East coast. You want to call it a grab? OK, it's a grab and it couldn't be fairer. Of course the recs kill more fish; there are millions of them.

[Team Rock On]

Unfortunately DD, your math is a little fuzzy. A quick census check puts the US population at about 300 million. So with the 3 million rec striper fisherman accounting for 60% of the kill (mostly for fun), that's 1% of the population that accounts for the majority. Com. fisherman are providing the resource to that other 99%, but fringe groups like PETA, Stripers Forever, etc. seem to forget that fact. The tiny commercial harvest is insignificant, and in fact doesn't even add up to the release mortality of the recs. How's Bradley doing, tell him people are still laughing...

[deputydog]

Originally Posted by Team Rock On

Unfortunately DD, your math is a little fuzzy. A quick census check puts the US population at about 300 million. So with the 3 million rec striper fisherman accounting for 60% of the kill (mostly for fun), that's 1% of the population that accounts for the majority. Com. fisherman are providing the resource to that other 99%, but fringe groups like PETA, Stripers Forever, etc. seem to forget that fact. The tiny commercial harvest is insignificant, and in fact doesn't even add up to the release mortality of the recs. How's Bradley doing, tell him people are still laughing...

How many of that other 99% could pick a striped bass out of a lineup consisting of fluke, tilapia, catfish, creek chub and roadkill? Aquaculture already produces 60% more striped bass than the entire commercial catch and , before you say that they taste terrible, be aware that the average price received at the Fulton Fish Market is the same, so the public doen't agree. The majority of the striped bass meals served in restaurants come from fish raised by aquaculture.
I'll relay your message to Brad, who stood behind the President Saturday when he signed the executive order. Which people,exactly, were laughing?