Van Staal [SIZE="1"]made in china[/SIZE]

[JFigliuolo]

It is ALL about shareholder profit... nothing else.

[shadow]

I was told that when zebco first took over that they were making the parts overseas and assembling them here.don't know how true it was but this could have been happening for awhile.and it seems that nothing ever goes down in price wishfull thinking however.

[lurch]

Those Chinese pirates will make a knock off for 1/10th the price so everyone will be able to buy one.

In my industry (IP network devices) Huawei has copied Cisco's products so it is only a matter of time until we will see a Chinese knockoff of a VS.

[JoeP]

Mike:

I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I've had several conversations with Pete about all the high end reels and he's objective & as informed as he can be. He sells at least 3 of the 4 top end spinning reels so he really has no reason to be biased towards VS - and in my experience he is not.

If he says he's put the "chinese" version of the VS through the ringer I take his word for it. Not saying I'm happy they're now made in China but I believe Pete's analysis of the "chinese" reel.

Only time will tell if they're worse or better - but just remember that every model of reel has had it troubles time to time.

Originally Posted by Mike P

Pete, I know you're a pro staffer but you are way too much of an apologist for these guys. I can't accept that you can be objective on the subject of VS

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by lurch

Those Chinese pirates will make a knock off for 1/10th the price so everyone will be able to buy one.

In my industry (IP network devices) Huawei has copied Cisco's products so it is only a matter of time until we will see a Chinese knockoff of a VS.

Hey Joe P, I think that Mike was more referrring to the outside of the VStaal plant, knock-off mfging of The, yet to be released, Von Stelisahn.

Made the same way, made with the same parts, made by the same people who'll be making yer '08 Van Staals, just their rip-off version at 1/2 the price. Ain't corporate Amercia/China grand?

[Adam_777]

I think I saw a Chinese knock off on ebay already.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Adam_777

I think I saw a Chinese knock off on ebay already.

Link?

[Diamond Tackle]

Originally Posted by lurch

Those Chinese pirates will make a knock off for 1/10th the price so everyone will be able to buy one.

In my industry (IP network devices) Huawei has copied Cisco's products so it is only a matter of time until we will see a Chinese knockoff of a VS.

You know, you might be onto something here. Maybe thats why they have so many security cameras in the factory. Not so much for the quality team to observe and make corrections, but rather to prevent a spy or even employee from stealing some tooling or blueprints. Not like it has never happened before.
Interesting.

[HESH2]

super interesting,how many of our wifes,girlfreinds,daughters have all the high end handbags.it seems they all have them.i know my wife has more than 1(its a woman thing) and at least are a couple of knock offs.so just a matter of time.day shift will make the vs's,night shift will copy and make knock offs out the back door.the more i think about all these woman with high end pocketbooks,go out and spend $$$$ on some high end fish gear.

[saltwater]

I have a link for you Mr. JohnR regarding Van Stall reels. I find this pretty interesting. I am a long time "lurker",first time poster, so not to sure of the rules on links. Or can I send you an e-mail instead?

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by saltwater

I have a link for you Mr. JohnR regarding Van Stall reels. I find this pretty interesting. I am a long time "lurker",first time poster, so not to sure of the rules on links. Or can I send you an e-mail instead?

I'm pretty sure that John allows links--unless they're to a porno site .

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by Pete_G

It's the same exact reel as far as I know. Just made there. We tried for a long time to identify what was different about the one we got and there's just nothing obvious.

I highly doubt you'd see a price drop and I haven't heard anything at all about price change.

If the Saltiga and Stellas having some parts made out of cast metal still sell for $600 to $700 made overseas there's just no way I can see a price drop on similarly priced but instead all machined reel made overseas.

On SOL there has been posts by regular canal jiggers having busted handles among other issues. Someone mentioned that the metal might be inferior but do not know if that is just surmised.

[tattoobob]

I'm switching to conventional

[Brother Brian]

I've been chewing on this for a couple of days and I guess it comes down to intent. I think by intention it was never 'announced' that this was happening. I don't give a monkeys red rump about the reels origin. I got a 200 a couple of months ago and fished it hard enough to know that it works as advertised. What bugs me is that the intention was there to deceive. It's that kind of action that makes you 'feel' that something isn't what it is proported to be.

[Adam_777]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Link?

Was not a knock off was another reel made in china with VS in the description.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

On SOL there has been posts by regular canal jiggers having busted handles among other issues. Someone mentioned that the metal might be inferior but do not know if that is just surmised.

It's old news, from early this year or last. That's not to say there isn't a reel or two out there that could still have that flaw. A batch of the bolts that hold the handle together had been machined too agressively and were snapping. Usually it revealed itself pretty quickly and it wasn't just happening in severe Canal service, I saw a 150 or two that it happened too as well.

If you actually see one it's immediately obvious that it was WAY too thin.

Once again Mike_P, this is just what it is, not an apology, nor is it a subjective viewpoint. No need for some snide comment.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Mike:

I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I've had several conversations with Pete about all the high end reels and he's objective & as informed as he can be. He sells at least 3 of the 4 top end spinning reels so he really has no reason to be biased towards VS - and in my experience he is not.

If he says he's put the "chinese" version of the VS through the ringer I take his word for it. Not saying I'm happy they're now made in China but I believe Pete's analysis of the "chinese" reel.

Only time will tell if they're worse or better - but just remember that every model of reel has had it troubles time to time.

I agree.

[saltwater]

Heres a link ---Are these real Van Staals??? or Fakes??? Check the price on these, and where they are located


http://www.diytrade.com/directory/gl...ning_Reel.html

[Zeno]

I got to meet a lot of wonderful people thru the net over the years,particularly on this website.
Not one has left a bigger impression on me that PeteG.
Why?
How many other tackle store "pros" call you and try to find out if the hype that goes on the net is real or its subsidized by the manufacturer before they stock their product?Most stores are happy enough to cash in on the hot item, regardless of the actual product qualities.
Pete don't shill or cover for no one.He just tell you like it is,objective to a fault
Something we could all use more in this industry............

Merry Christmas

[Sea Dangles]

Lots of foolish, uninformed comments here. We like what we like,regardless of where it is made. Stella, Saltiga, Abu. Where are they made? Are they cast or machined? What do you think costs more Einstein?Seems some folks have an axe to grind for whatever reason.A$700 reel better be good but there is NOTHING that does not break down with salt,sand or sun.I have seen the accurate spinners.... I have seen the saltiga loyalists upset too.Alberto broke a reel....wow.How could that happen?Swim with a reel,do nothing to maintain it,we'll see who can fish longest. Sure I wish it was still made in the USA I'm proud of my country. Is there something wrong with this? I also would like to see WET (white entetainment television).This does not mean I am a racist,just proud of my race.Lots of stuff slipping away we can't seem to control,add this to the list. Hold your breath because I hear we will be getting some interesting news regarding the ZeeBaas. You heard it here first.
MERRY CHRISTMAS

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Pete_G

Once again Mike_P, this is just what it is, not an apology, nor is it a subjective viewpoint. No need for some snide comment.

I'm done with this thread, Pete, and in fact I'm done with the very subject. I expressed an opinion. Which I'm not the only one here who shares. So we each have people who privately support our opinions. I've never met you, and I've never been in your shop. I only know you from these forums, and in my opinion--and even a moderator of these forums is entitled to have an opinion--you have in the past and even now shown a bias in favor of VS. It's just an opinion I have, nothing more. I don't consider it to be anything more than a bias. It isn't a reflection on your character or an accusation of an ulterior motive---any human being is entitled to a bias in favor of a product. I would have replied to you privately, but since you chose to continue this in public, I'll respond publicly.

And just for the record--I own two older Van Staal reels which have never given me a lick of trouble, and I don't have any deal with any reel company. Any product I happen to mention doesn't have me on its payroll, or doesn't sell me a product at a substantial discount over what the public pays. I don't have any ulterior motives in expressing my opinions.

Anyway, like I said, I'm done with the subject on this website.

Merry Christmas--sincerely.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by Mike P

I'm done with this thread, Pete, and in fact I'm done with the very subject. I expressed an opinion. Which I'm not the only one here who shares. So we each have people who privately support our opinions. I've never met you, and I've never been in your shop. I only know you from these forums, and in my opinion--and even a moderator of these forums is entitled to have an opinion--you have in the past and even now shown a bias in favor of VS. It's just an opinion I have, nothing more. I don't consider it to be anything more than a bias. It isn't a reflection on your character or an accusation of an ulterior motive---any human being is entitled to a bias in favor of a product. I would have replied to you privately, but since you chose to continue this in public, I'll respond publicly.

And just for the record--I own two older Van Staal reels which have never given me a lick of trouble, and I don't have any deal with any reel company. Any product I happen to mention doesn't have me on its payroll, or doesn't sell me a product at a substantial discount over what the public pays. I don't have any ulterior motives in expressing my opinions.

Anyway, like I said, I'm done with the subject on this website.

Merry Christmas--sincerely.

Come on now Mike. You’re acting as though you’re revealing something or making a formal accusation. If you’re only of the opinion I support Van Staal you’re not paying attention. As Sea Dangles would say, “Is a 5 pound robin fat?” And of course you are entitled to your opinion.

VS has been good for the Saltwater Edge, and I don’t really mean in respect to reel sales. People who buy them usually like them and continue to shop at the SWE. In a world where small tackle and fly shops are disappearing there’s nothing more important to me that people come back. So that relationship is pretty simple. If I felt VS was nothing but a disappointment they’d be out. And since some people don’t like them, or are fishing in ways that other reels are better suited for, or maybe they just don’t want to buy a Van Staal made in China we carry Accurate, Stellas, Saltigas, and all manner of reels at all price ranges. We’ll probably carry ZeeBaas soon too once this whole made overseas question is put to bed one way or the other.

Now to what this is really about.

Originally Posted by Mike P

Pete, I know you're a pro staffer but you are way too much of an apologist for these guys. I can't accept that you can be objective on the subject of VS

It’s the Internet so everyone reads things differently. I’m sure some read it and didn’t think a thing of it. Maybe it was the smiley shaking his head, or maybe it was the way you worded it. What I took notice of was the tone. To quote Clem from Joe Dirt: “You're talking to me all wrong... It's the wrong tone.” Now initially I dismissed it assuming I was reading it wrong or overreacting, but when people call, email, and walk into the shop and ask wtf that was all about it’s pretty clear I wasn’t wrong in being not too pleased with the way you decided to word it.

Regardless, you’ve said your piece and I’ve said mine.

Now let’s get back to the wild speculation. Someone show me proof VS quality will slip. And especially since the SWE will probably soon pick up Zee Baas, prove that it has foreign parts in it. I've heard the ZeeBaas rumors for a while now but no proof at all. While it would be nice to have an entirely US built spinning reel option, the soap opera that would unfold if it isn't would possibly be the highlight of the winter...

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.

[spence]

There's no way you can see proof until it happens. To manufacture a quality reel in China will cost way more than 10 bucks Likwid, but the real question is if they continue to invest what it will take and protect their IP in the process.

Regarding the ZeeBass. There's nothing that says a reel should be 100% made in the USA to be good. It's all down to the sourcing and quality they are paying for.

The reference to leather bags is a great one. Due to environmental restrictions there's very little quality leather still tanned in the USA. Buy a quality pair of USA shoes like Allen Edmonds or Alden and they are made from imported components. Just get used to it as it may not be a bad thing.

But also, nearly 100% of the top end leather bags are also faked by the Chinese. They simply don't give a whip and if someone can make money from a fake VS they will.

-spence

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by saltwater

I have a link for you Mr. JohnR regarding Van Stall reels. I find this pretty interesting. I am a long time "lurker",first time poster, so not to sure of the rules on links. Or can I send you an e-mail instead?

Rules on links are basically no Spam, no .Self Promotion, no prono . The system automatically filters out the first X amount of posts that have links so people can't take advantage of the site.

Originally Posted by saltwater

Heres a link ---Are these real Van Staals??? or Fakes??? Check the price on these, and where they are located


http://www.diytrade.com/directory/gl...ning_Reel.html

Interesting first link - I would be bleeped if I were VS

[animal]

%$%$%$%$E!The 70s,Penn Intl knockoff?Indonesia!I'm done buying online.If I ever got an International reel in the mail,that said Made in Indonesia,I would flip the eff out.

[ridler72]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Why are all of you so surprised?
van stall is now owned by friggen ZEBCO... Of course this was going to happen.

Great point. It was inevitable. I guess it's safe to say Van Staal Reel line will all be down hill from here. Buy your parts now and stock up!
Who will be next?

[lurch]

I do not care where they are made as long as the quality stays the same but what gets me is that the profit margin for VS increases by X% without a decrease in price.

If you had a mechanic who charged a premium because he had enough experience to fix every problem he ran into...the same mechanic decides to retire and hands the business over to his son who was only getting coffee for him during the day...would you still pay that same premium?? I know I would be going to a different mechanic if the high rates remained.

I am not saying that the components will change but the experience of the worker assembling the reel will decrease which could lead to field failures. In the time it takes the workers to get up to speed folks will switch over to a ZB.

In my industry we are going through the same problem of QA engineers in India (sent all QA testing for a specific product to India) not finding basic bugs even though the tests are the same. IMO there will be a blip in reliability of the reels with the reels being assembled in China.

[maddog2020]

If you need your VS service it will still be done in Tulsa, OK. Assembling the VS is a cake walk. It is a dumb fishing reel not a part for the aerospace industry. This isn't rocket science .... LOL.

Regardless of where it is made and as long as they use the correct material to make the parts it should be easy. Setting up the tooling is critical. Stealing the design is a joke - any one with a pair of calipers can copy the thing IMHO. There isn't anything special about it.

So many goods are made abroad now. Look at all the nice fishing rods coming out of China now for CHEAP $. Top quality Fuji parts: hardloy guides, reel seat, neoprene shrink wrap and so forth for under $100. Tsunami and other brands have adjust THEIR prices, but why NOT some of these other companies?! You can make the $ thru volume OR make it as lower cost and pocket the $. WC Bradley is pocketing the $$ they save for the Van Staal reels made in China. Isn't this the American way?! Sorry to be sarcastic. I'm not buying into the newer style VS reels period. If I decide to keep them, I'll stick with the US made ones.

I don't doubt that VS reels made abroad will be the same or better quality of the US made ones. I've seen plenty of US made black VS with mis-matched anodizing out there where it was more of a deep purple than it was black.

Zeebaas aren't flawless. First batch had issues of the spool gasket bottoming out on the rotor underneath. They were made aware of it and fixed it, BUT the stack up tolerances bit them on that one. They were lacking on QC there for sure. You would think that those first hundred would have been "perfect" before they released them out to the dealers! ZB knew what they were up against with anal anglers...... LOL. There must be other glitches with it I am sure. JohhR - your ZB perfect or ya got some issues with yours?! I bet those who did get one are embarassed to admit they are some problems. I know the guy who designed the reel is always interested in getting feedback on the ZB. Retail prices on a longer power handle with a different knob is PAINFUL! OUCH ..... some good $ for one.

Look at the country of origin on consumer goods - 90% of the stuff out there is from Asia. Most of it is fine. They just need to understand we don't USE lead paint any more! It would be extremely hard to buy ALL US made products for everything now a days.

Man, it IS going to be a longer winter.

[lurch]

Originally Posted by maddog2020

It is a dumb fishing reel not a part for the aerospace industry. This isn't rocket science .... LOL.

All the QA folks do in my office is run a script that was created years ago but software bugs are not caught with the folks in India because they are not as familiar with the product.

I understand that assembling a reel is not rocket science but it would super suck if the reel fails because of a newbie forgot to add the sphincter pin caused by a lack of assembly experience.

[maddog2020]

The folks in Tulsa have made plenty of mistakes with the reels as well as the other service centers for VS in the past! Their track record for repairs has been much better and continues to improve. The guy who retired, Dan, knew the product and stayed on to help train them correctly.

For the cost of the Van Staal reels each one should be check more than once in the assembly process. If it isn't then they really need a better QC department. I've seen plenty of VS from few yrs back that were made out of CT that had plenty of issues so what was their excuse then?! LOL. Self-tightening drag nuts were always fun to see! Spool just locked up once a fish started to take out line. Two brand new VS200 B were that way: both had to get sent back to the factory. You must have opened up your VS reel before - there aren't a lot of parts in there.

I am more concerned my brakes on my car can fail and create a bigger problem for me than a fishing reel, lurch. I always have a spare or two with me. If I know I am going to be hoofing it in a ways, I just take the spare reel in my bag.

When we have software issues at work we are told to call our service people over in India for support. Now a days when I get tech support I always ask them WHERE they are physically located just for my own curiosity.