Why has the fishing from the Cape beaches declined so much? - Page 2 - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

fishonnelsons · 03-07-2008, 07:17 AM

A combo of all of the above, I believe - schools of bass hang around an area because of food/bait. They used to hit the beach hard in the night and early morning, feed, retreat back to deeper water during the day/sun, and then head back for the bait the next night.

Sand dabs and skates gone - cause, seals.

Sand eels are another story - gone from the beach but not 1/2 mile from the beach, so LIFish has a point there. Why aren't the sand eels going in close - run-off messing with the sand quality? Density of the sand, has it changed in the past years and the sand eels are finding other spots to burrow? Has the bottom changed (probably) due to storms, currents etc and now the sand eels pass by their traditional burrowing spots - Pamet as well as Race Pt don't give up the #'s they used to have.

The fish are their, just offshore. The question is why aren't they been staying their for the season, but just pass through. We have maybe 2 to 3 big schools a year that bounce between Billingsgate/Long Point/Race Pt, and the rest are fish on a journey.

Alot of great thoughts, but really

HESH2 · 03-07-2008, 08:09 AM

fished it a few times last summer,youngest son fished it very hard with eels.he did the long walks and the all niters and got zip.seals are a big factor eating all bait close to shore.we used to fish the chatham inlet and the shifting sand there completly changed that fishery.guys in boats are getting the fish out in deeper off shore waters,surfcasters are having their problems.was up at the race fishing coast guard beach and was amazed by # of boats there on beach,years ago tin boats on beach ,now alot of big rigs on trailors waiting to go.

Back Beach · 03-07-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronko

Mike can you expand on that? Do you have any theories as to what else may be at work? Because I am reluctantly falling into the seal "pit of despair" with many others. Although I have gone over other ideas like bait migration patterns, water temp, structure change...

I miss the better days.

Can't add much more than what I've already said. I would continue to keep an eye on things. The fish will show back up at some point. The cape is "yesterday" for me though. The drives are too long to justify and with the fishing what it is there's no incentive for me to return. I went through a new learning curve and had a couple slow years after leaving the cape. I returned to some old haunts, also found some new ones and can tell you there's just as many fish on this side of the bridges as there were on the cape if its fish you're after.
I can guarantee its not water quality, genetics (takes many generations to change this), or jack the ripper. The fish simply aren't using the place right now. It’s happened before.

Saltheart · 03-07-2008, 09:34 AM

While fly fishing Monomoy , I saw several different incidents of seals coming up right in front of me with big bass in their mouths. These were not bass i had hooked , they were free swimming bass and some were very good size.

to the main question , i think the idea that something more attractive to them is happening further out is probably the best answere I have heard.

bassballer · 03-07-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrowingTimber

All that ky jelly in the water is attracting seals

LMAO

Joe · 03-07-2008, 09:49 AM

Think about the Hudson River and how far north breeding/wintering stripers go in its upper reaches.
There is speculation that at one time that other rivers further north were natal rivers for striped bass, but those fish got over-harvested of dammed off.
If a large segment of the fish with a predisposition to a certain location are harvested, and if there is anything to a fishes' instinct to migrate to a certain place, then Numbskull's theory sounds pretty good. One thing's for sure - the Cape was a huge inshore fishery for a long time and now it is not.

piemma · 03-07-2008, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltheart

While fly fishing Monomoy , I saw several different incidents of seals coming up right in front of me with big bass in their mouths. These were not bass i had hooked , they were free swimming bass and some were very good size.

to the main question , i think the idea that something more attractive to them is happening further out is probably the best answere I have heard.

This is disturbing. Saltheart is to be respected.

Slipknot · 03-07-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by numbskull

Unfortunately, there is another possibility to consider. The genetic trait for bass to feed inshore was punished severely by catch and kill fishing (be it recreational or commercial). The fish that feed offshore have been less pressured and lived to pass on their instincts. I have no proof that is what is happening, but would anyone be surprised if it is? Lu's point about there being enough bait for the seals to thrive on is a strong argument that the absence of bait is not the real issue.

Very possible
much as the seals have gone unchecked since there is no more bounty on them so now they have flourished since they have alot of food available(atleast it used to be till they ate all the flounder,sand dabs,skates,dogfish,bass, and so on) and there is no more bounty on them so they are free to shat all over our once pristine beaches.

Kinda ironic that Boston Harbor has fantastic fishing lately since they use the outflow pipe to take away the effluent and ruin the shoreline waters of the cape with all their polluted water

I think that has something to do with water quality close in at the beaches along with seal poop and one reason why sand eels are scarce from shoreline areas they once were abundant.

Seals
The outflow pipe
Mung
fishing pressure
lack of shoreline bait
fear of predation in close even at night
plenty of eats offshore so why would bass come in close

and the number one reason mentioned has been it's just a cycle
with seals being number 2.

I wish scientists would research this stuff
Don't the polititions know the economy is being effected out there by the overpopulation of seals?

Slipknot · 03-07-2008, 10:18 AM

I have also seen seals in the daytime eating bass that were not hooked by fishermen.
But most times at the rip it is a hooked bass that is easy prey for the fat seals. I usually got my blues in past them unless it was dark still.

Clogston29 · 03-07-2008, 10:19 AM

were the cape beaches good during other perionds, like some of the 70s, when the fishing around the bunker schools was great? just curious.

also, do you guys think that large sandeel popluations are down in general or have just not been coming inshore as frequently in recent years? It seams like they've been missing or down in other areas too, not just the cape.

bart · 03-07-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

Think about the Hudson River and how far north breeding/wintering stripers go in its upper reaches.
There is speculation that at one time that other rivers further north were natal rivers for striped bass, but those fish got over-harvested of dammed off.
If a large segment of the fish with a predisposition to a certain location are harvested, and if there is anything to a fishes' instinct to migrate to a certain place, then Numbskull's theory sounds pretty good. One thing's for sure - the Cape was a huge inshore fishery for a long time and now it is not.

thats kind of like Ken Abrahm's theory on different populations of bass. same fish migrate to the same places each year. once they're gone, they're gone....

WadingWill · 03-07-2008, 12:58 PM

I love how people blame this on seals and think they should be killed. The seals NEED to eat those fish to survive. We go fishing because it's fun and we enjoy it, not because we have to or we will starve to death. If we humans hadn't raped the ocean of all the fish that used to be in it, we wouldn't see these seals showing up in these areas. They're a part of the food chain and natural cycle of the ocean, we are not.

Slingah · 03-07-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WadingWill

I love how people blame this on seals and think they should be killed. The seals NEED to eat those fish to survive. We go fishing because it's fun and we enjoy it, not because we have to or we will starve to death. If we humans hadn't raped the ocean of all the fish that used to be in it, we wouldn't see these seals showing up in these areas. They're a part of the food chain and natural cycle of the ocean, we are not.

maybe so.....but don't forget who is at the top of the food chain of the entire planet....

Rappin Mikey · 03-07-2008, 01:28 PM

WW, this is "Striped-Bass.com" not "Seals.com". Obviously you don't fish out there, and I guarantee you would be singing a different tune if your fishing grounds were almost renedered useless by a species of animal that's population has exploded and started to spread like a disease. I guess people who complain about zebra muscles are morons too. After all, they need to live in the water.

WadingWill · 03-07-2008, 01:37 PM

I never called anybody a moron. I just think the train of thought is funny. We overfished the places the seals would normaly eat, forcing them to find other habitats. Now they come to your neck of the woods, and ruin your fishing(which is debatable) so they should all be killed so you can catch more fish and have more fun.

fishpoopoo · 03-07-2008, 01:39 PM

bruce,

funny, i was talking to dave m not too long ago about this. he thinks it's largely cyclical too.

-b

RickBomba · 03-07-2008, 01:48 PM

Go gettem Mikey!
Still gotta nother 3 weeks till fishing gets good!
Later,
Rick
Vice President Sealz.com

Rappin Mikey · 03-07-2008, 01:48 PM

What do you mean by "debatable" exactly? About the moron comment. I kind of picked up on some passive aggressive undertones in your first post and was just playing off of that. Honestly tell me you wouldn't get frustrated if a place you were fishing for years, all of a sudden became almost unfishable because of an animal that was never there before. If you can tell me that wouldn't bother you, I think you might be on the wrong site.

parker23 · 03-07-2008, 01:51 PM

ooops, did I say that out loud

WadingWill · 03-07-2008, 01:57 PM

I'm just saying you don't know for a fact the reason that you've seen a decline in stripers is directly linked to seals. I agree with numbskulls theory, but none of us know for a fact. That makes it up for debate.

I would be upset if one of the spots I fished was being taken over by seals, but I realize that they need to eat those fish alot more than I do and instead of killing the seals, I'd try to find out why it was happening.

And I guess since I'm not down with the extinction of the seal species, I can't be a real striper fisherman according to you.

saltfly · 03-07-2008, 02:10 PM

the fish are afraid of all the young plovers,terns,kites,oystercatchers,sanderlings lurking at the edge of the wash.

chris L · 03-07-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltfly

the fish are afraid of all the young plovers,terns,kites,oystercatchers,sanderlings lurking at the edge of the wash.

so am I .

Its a cycle ! notice there isnt much bait . was that scared off by the seals ? I doubt it . seals need to eat food that is going to be filling . and bait doesnt fit the bill even for my little frame .

Rappin Mikey · 03-07-2008, 02:17 PM

I never once said I was down with the extinction of seals. Personally, I would like some type of hunting season like we have for deer in order to keep the population at a controlled level. I'm sure you are a fine fisherman Will. I'm just saying when you make statements like "I think the train of thought is funny" or "I love when people say......" which are definitely trying to imply something insultive, somebody's going to say something back at you. I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm out.

chris L · 03-07-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rappin Mikey

I'm out.

your out ?
playing baseball ?
out on limb ?
out of your mind ?
outside ?
your out of ? milk ? bread ? money ? beer ?
out of town ?
outsider ?
outrider ?
get out and stay out ?
out sourced ?
outhouse ?"
out of the house ?
in the outhouse ?
inside out ? outside in ?
are you outside looking in ? a TOM peeper ?
out take ?
take out ?
out there ? where ?
peace out
YOUR OUT
IM OUT
WE ARE ALL OUT
a babies arm holding an apple

Swimmer · 03-07-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tattoobob

Sense Ricky and Mikey started fishing there the fishing has declined

MUNG

Thats because they use all the new up to date gear they win at the TFCTFN and catch all the fish before you get the chance.

The Dad Fisherman · 03-07-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slingah

maybe so.....but don't forget who is at the top of the food chain of the entire planet....

Mosquitos

Back Beach · 03-07-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bart

thats kind of like Ken Abrahm's theory on different populations of bass. same fish migrate to the same places each year. once they're gone, they're gone....

That's a good theory and I buy into it. I don't think that's the case on the cape right now, but with some of the older classes of fish we caught, I believe that's exactly what happened.They either died of old age or were caught. I would call that scenario depletion/attrition, not genetics though. If it were genetic wouldn't the offspring of the missing fish return to take their place? It would be just like salmon. Who the %$%$%$%$ knows.

This used to be a decent day on the water. Pic is from 1990. My old 12' tin boat and 4 fish in the 40# class.The small one was in the low 20's just for scale. I took the fish right in front of highland light.