And, Gibbs plugs S**k!!

[Mike P]

Gotta vent on this one, sorry. But last night I had about the 6th or 7th case of a Gibbs plug cracking down the middle in the last year. This one was a white 1-5/8 oz darter, I've had some swimmers pull the same act, too (I no longer use their pencil poppers, Polarises or long needlefish). They can talk all they want about the 11 coats of sealer and paint, and how painstakingly crafted they are, but if the wood stinks, it's a lousy plug. And their wood sucks big-time.

It's bad enough you pay $11 for a darter with screw eye constuctions, and half the time the hook eyes fail right out of the package when you put minimal pressure on the eye with a pliers. But an $11 screw eye plug that cracks on the first fish is an outrage. I haven't hit a rock or anything hard--I couldn't believe the crack when saw it, I thought my light was causing the leader to throw a shadow across the plug.

Someone--anyone--want to make a nice wooden darter with good wood and thru-wire construction? There's a market for one, believe me. Lots of the LI guys use darters as their go-to plug, and all I hear from the boys are how fed up they are with Gibbs.

I just delivered an order of $100 worth of Hawgs to a guy out here and I'll bet he won't be buying any Gibbs pencils for awhile.

[JohnR]

It's a shame. And Gibbs USED to make them thru-wire... Cost of doing business, lessen quality but raise the prices. Twenty seven coats of paint still look like crap when the rocks and blues are done with them anyway...

[Patrick]

I've never had a problem with them cracking but you are dead on about the poor quality of the hooks. I had a one oz casting swimmer. It wasn't one of those really teeny ones, it was a medium sized one. Anyways, on a cast off my ummm fake jetty, I by accident dropped the plug down in the rocks. Trying to reel it up, I finally got it free but the rear treble hook was missing! I think they are good plugs still but in their attempt to cost the manufacturing costs have resorted to using cheap hooks.

The worst part is, There are no split rings so I can't change the hooks. I have a nice box of Mustad treble hooks that would go nicely on larger plugs but they are closed eye hooks. I don't even like the open eye hooks to begin with. All that bending can't be good...

[Jaiem]

Mike,

Ever try the darters from Kevin's Lures in Jackson NJ? Not sure off the top of my head if they are screw eye or not (have to take a look at home) but they do swim well, stand up to abuse and take fish! Inexpensive too!

Send me your email addr and I'll send you the info.

[JohnR]

Jaiem, Welcome aboard - sorry about the wait....

You know, you can, uh, e-mail me that too ;D

[Patrick]

I think Superstrike's darters are through wired. I don't know if Tony at Lexlures makes a darter but if he does, they might be too.

[Mike P]

I have a bunch of Superstrike dartes. Well constructed, but they are plastic and have a slightly different action than Gibbs. They swim a little deeper, too.

The hooks are Mustad 3x strong. It's not the hooks, it's they way they're attached. I've used open eye trebles for years, and when you put them on right, they don't fail unless they get too corroded. But if you bend them back and forth to get the eye flush, which I think is what they do to get it looking nice and pretty in the package for the guys who don't know any better, you weaken the metal. I now replace them with stronger 4x trebles from Eagle Claw and VMC. You can buy 100 loose HD splits from the Surfcaster or Tim for about $7 or so, and attach a ring to the screw eye or the swivel on a thru-wired plug. With the 4x trebles, you can also use one size smaller without losing any strength.

Jaiem, my e-mail is in my profile. First icon on the left under my name and Group.

[Fishpart]

Mike,
If I'm not mistaken the Gibbs plugs are made with nice soft easy to work Sugar Pine or White Pine or so they appeared to be when I saw them at the show. The pines common to the northeast aren't very tough, a bad combination when you use a screw eye. I didn't realize Gibbs had switched to eyes . Most of the people that Gibbs competes with now seem to be using cedar and through wiring definitely a better combination and what a surprise the finish lasts longer...

Do the plugs still perform the same with eyes? I noticed that Gibbs weights thier plugs with round tail weight that slips over the wire inside the plug, no wire means no weight as I see it.

BTW thanks for the good information on the Superstrikes.

[Don M]

Mike P:
There was a pretty good thread on 3/31/01 "Plug Questions". Some good responses on darters and some pictures of superstrike darters.

BTW guys I hear tell that John Habs is tinkering with the idea of a darter if and when he catches up with his orders.

[Patrick]

http://65.2.162.230/cgi-bin/StriperTalk/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=1&TID=5481&SID=6119

That is the link to the post that Don referred to.

I was thinking about buying one of Gibbs pencil poppers. One of the very light ones. You know, the ones that look like pencils but I don't really have a rod that can work one right.

Habs darter? I'm gonna have to think about getting one of those. I got one of his needlefish and I don't know if I should put it my tackle bag or mount it on the wall. Nice paint job, very streamlined, through wired, and heavy. The best thing about needlefish, even though I haven't caught anything with it, you can fish them any way you want because they don't have a built in action. Like, if I was to cast out say, a casting swimmer, if you reel too fast, it wiggles too much and goes too deep. With needlefish, you can fish it however you want. Just the one thing I have noticed.

[JohnR]

Just to get on the same page Patrick, what rods do you own and fish with for stripers???

Thanks

[Jaiem]

Related to the thread referenced above, a lot of casters say this or that plug is good when squid are around. But most plugs have a side-to-side movement and squid definately don't move that way. The only plug I'm aware of that was for immitating squid was the old amber Gibbs bottle neck (not sure the official name) plug.

Any thoughts on this?

[Patrick]

I have a St. Croix 10 foot spinner. It just doesn't work a pencil popper right. I can work one but it takes a lot of effort.

I have a 7 foot Medium action uglystik. The one I made.

I have a 7'6" Empire rod. It's a light rod, one problem, no guides on it. The company that makes it, uses a great blank that I love but for some reason put pretty poor guides and all of them showed signs of rust and two of them actually broke. I figure before all of those become like the other two, I'd replace them.

I have an 8 foot K-Mart special but this is a pretty stiff rod and the reel needs work. It's a Penn 103 C and the roller actually got a groove in it.

That's about it.

I have another 6'6" rod that the reel seat broke on and I gotta drill some holes and put epoxy in.

For the most part, I just bring the 10 footer because 2 rods is just not applicable when you fish 100 yards on the reef and you are in waist deep water.

[MikeF]

I've been using Gibbs Darters for 35 or 40 years. As far as I know they were never thru wired. I have a bunch of them in different sizes and they all use screw eyes.

I'll second Mike's recommendation of the Hawg Hunter poppers. Way better than Gibbs in my opinion.

Sounds like we need a Hawg Darter. The outer beach guys would sure be interested in that!!

[JohnR]

MikeP, any other way to get Brad's plugs than at the "Mobile Showroom"??

[Patrick]

Guys, did any of you get this "threatening email"?
I open my email to find this threatening suprise...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Patrick
- it's to bad that you haven't a clue of what your talking about in regards
to Gibbs Lures. I hope you know more about fishing than you think you know
about Gibbs product and construction .
We would love to see the supposed split lures that you and your supposed
buddies speak of. Just a little info so that you won't appear so ignorant
in the future.
1) any of the screw eye style plugs are made of birch (read this BIRCH) not
pine as you speak of.
2) most of the line of plugs are made from sugar pine for your info and
happens to grow in the northwest not the northeast. also sugar pine is
perhaps the most expensive type of wood used in plug construction but is
used mainly for its bouncy properties.
3) all of the screw eye style plugs have been tested to a minimum of 80
lbs. pull on the smallest style to over a 100 lbs. load on the larger.
4) weighting of the plugs hasn't changed since final designs
5) not all plugs have tail weights (and never have)

I am not sure what you and your friends have to gain by lying about a
tried and proven product other than to listen to each others bull.
PERHAPS YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS HAVE HEARD OF A THING CALLED " SLANDER" ? On
second thought that is perhaps a dumb question having read some of your
commentary.
I would also offer to you or your friends as we do all of our customers
that we stand behind our product and will replace any items found to be
defective due to manufacture not normal wear and tear free of charge.
Perhaps your friend w/ " 6" defective darters would like to send them back
???????

GIBBS lures
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~End of Email

Now I'm no lawyer, but this seems to be a threatening letter. Unjustifiably sending this when I have done nothing wrong but state what happened to my lure. As I recall, all I said was the tail hook of a casting swimmer cracked off on me. I didn't even say this was a common occurence. All my other Gibbs plugs have worked just fine from a wear and tear viewpoint. I would prefer through wired but I have no problems with screw eyes.

This puts the final nail in the coffin I guess. I will never, EVER buy a Gibbs product again. Superstrike, Habs, and these other companies will get my business from now on. If this is how the company treats its customers, I'd hate to see how it treats their competitors.

Hey Ditch, according to my informative email, we are friends now! When do ya wanna get married? This weekend sound good to you?

[Mike P]

Ah, the heck with it--it ain't worth it. I pulled the post out of consideration for John.

Patrick, nothing you said was slanderous---their e-mail was more slanderous than anything you or I said, but since it was meant to be private, you were the one that publicized it, not them.

Believe me, it's an empty threat.

John--the mobile showroom is the only source.

[Patrick]

Hey, Patrick does have a clue. He's just a little tweaked in the head. I'll show you all one day and then you'll see!

Way to shoot them down Ditch! No wonder so many people keep their email addresses hidden. So what hurt more, the implication that we are friends or that they said you don't know what you are talking about?

Gibbs guys, if you really care about fishing, then fix your darn plugs and adjust your attitudes. You have brought shame to the Gibbs name now. I know I'll never buy one again. And when I tell my fishing buddies, I'm going to point out the defects of your plugs and how you treat your customers. Next picture you see of me, I'll have a Habs or a LexLure coming out her mouth. Shame on you!

So, you gonna sue me for slander now? Actually, I think this is more libel than slander since it's printed text. You could at least learn the law before you start throwing terms around that you don't understand, crackerjack. Gotta love the judge that would even hear this case.

If you want, I can recommend a lawyer. Try Joe Shyster, Yale Law Class of '82

[ragfly]

I wouldn't really call it threatening but you did piss someone off. I would suggest sending the "faulty" plugs back to Gibbs and see if they do stand behind their products. If they don't then go ahead a bitch. If they do then you get new plugs.

[JohnR]

Patrick,

First of all, I didn't receive it but I wouldn't be supirsed if that was a troll e-mail. You seem to receive a higher than normal amount of those for one reason or another. I would also hesitate on "legal advice" from you. Nothing personal you understand...

For the rest:

As far as the plugs go, I thought they were thru wired but I don't break plugs down and pull them apart (or inspect them all that close all the time) , I put them on my line and fish with them. I usually use the Stubby most often and I'm going to go home and look myself to see if it is Thru-wire or not. My experiences with these plugs is generally OK (I actually like the Gibbs and Habs Stubbies as they each have strenghts and weaknesses) but I have had plugs where the factory hooks have broken under low load before and that I HAVE experienced >( . Shame on me for not having returned them but after my initial displeasure, they were fished with different hooks...

Pulled from http://www.gibbslures.com today

HANDCRAFTED WOODEN PLUGS
For over 50 years we have been hand crafting saltwater fishing lures out of natural wood stock from the Pacific Northwest. We use stainless through wire and grommets strong enough to handle record setting catches (see the photos on the newsletter page), Mustand 3X strong hooks with supporting swivels to sustain the battle and then layer upon layer of of sealants, primers and body colors topped by protective finishes to assure the lures remarkable appearance.
All of this being crafted completely in the U.S.A., right here in our Cape Cod facilities. And as Stan used to say so proudly, “First we test ‘em...then we prove ‘em...then and only then do we make ‘em and offer ‘em to you.”. "

That's right from the "products page" on their website http://www.gibbslures.com/Product/product.html .

If this e-mail was not a troll, the information on the website would indicate that all Gibbs wooden plugs are thru wired. I would also hate to think there is some misleading information on the manufacturer's own website.

This is a "public" forum and people are encouraged to express their opinions as long as they are not offensive in nature. People who fish hard and often come here and express those opinions and I am not going to edit a fisherman's or fisherwoman's opinion on a product unless the content is offensive. Now if that e-mail was legit, and not a gut hook, I invite anyone from Gibbs Lures to login to this site and say what you have to say in Public. The only thing I have against a product manufacturer or sales people is spamming of a product on the forums. That is not allowed.

[Patrick]

I would call it threatening. I took the line in all caps as though they were going to take some legal action against me. Ragfly, before this e-mail, I just said I was unhappy with one incident with their plugs, which I'm entitled to do. I'm not saying everyone of them breaks but that plug had been out of the package for less than 72 hours and it had a hook failure. By the way, once I replaced the hook, one of my other casts I had a bail closure and snap! For all I know, it could have been the hook manufacturer's fault. I really don't know.

Ditch, yeah I know that I made it public so nothing can be done but hopefully enough people will see how Gibbs treats it's customers and they will rethink their purchase. I think that letter was a "scare tactic" though. Fortunately, I've been threatened with a similar lawsuit so I brushed up on my Slander/Libel laws and even I could see this was frivelous although I am still pretty p.o.ed.

John, I just saw your post and maybe it was some joker yanking my chain. If that is the case, I guess I gotta apologize to Gibbs. here is the header to the email address:
~~~~~~~
Subj: misinformed or uniformed
Date: 4/24/2001 9:25:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: dsmalley@plasticsplusinc.com (Dan Smalley)
~~~~~~~

Allright John, I took out the part about the "T" word. But I better not hear any words about, "Why don't you have a job?" because that is why I don't have a job.

[JohnR]

If the e-mail is legit, I'd rather he post it on the board and not you. I'm also not crazy about you publicizing your "therapy" on the board. That's not really necessary, is it?

[SeaWolf]

Ya, know, it's unfortunate that Gibbs Lures doesn't look into their product line more and listen to what people are saying. We've all vented recently about their prices. They really are driving themselves out of the market today and other manufacturers are making the same type of lures with better quality, better results, and most importantly, good feedback. I've heard many shops are no longer going to carry the Gibbs Line.

I've used Gibbs Lures many years and have seen a couple new owners come along and leave. I must say that I am displeased with their newest designs of existing lures. Their Pencil Poppers and Darters have changed, and as a result changed their performance.

As long as I can remember, Gibbs Darters have always been screw eyed and not through wired. I have original 3-hook Darters that are screw eyed. I'm just mad that they do not swim the same anymore. Lesser quality.

If companies like Habs, Lex, and others continue making a quality plug at a reasonable price, I can't see Gibbs surviving unless they change from relying on their name to producing a quality product that makes anglers happy.

[Mike P]

John--I guess me and your brother-in-law are a lot alike in a few ways. I stand by my criticism. I'm looking right now at two darters, one 1-5/8 oz, one 2-1/4 or whatever the larger size weighs. The smaller one---which by the way doesn't even have a hook gouge on it yet---is cracked from the tail past the belly screw eye. Not just cracked, split. The larger one has two hairline cracks spreading from the tail, one on each side. They're both white, and I can tell you that these are both "new" Gibbs. Know how to tell really easy? I do. The white plugs made by the Gibbs family and Griecci have blue eyes--the new ones have red eyes.

I have no idea who Sea Wolf is, if Dennis, Dan or one of the other Gibbsies is reading this. The guys who walk up to your booth at the shows and stroke your egos aren't the guys who are more and more walking away from your plugs, guys. I know you guys read the net every day. I've been in the room when you've called another webmaster whining about what guys are saying about your product. Instead of whining, fix what's ailing your product, my two cents.

BTW--it's no one's fault but your own that you overpaid Griecci for a name that he had done a pretty good job of running into the ground. Starting off your reign by jacking up prices 40% in the first two years was bad business.

BTW---while I have your ears--whose bright idea was it to broaden and flatten the lower lip on the bottle swimmers? Someone recently gave me a gift of a couple, and I noticed something odd about the lip right away.

[Patrick]

Maybe some day I'll make lures. Just for me and my close personal friends. Of course I would have to charge them for materials but the satisfaction I get out of woodworking and then to see someone catch a fish on your work. Well it's just fun. You get the drift. Of course I am projecting into the future again...

Costs wouldn't be too much for me anyways. They would be the lures I want and I wouldn't go into customizing with colors and heavy weights. I have no use for lures over 2 oz.

Basically all it would be are through wired
Dani types and pencil poppers in 1/2 oz, 1 1/4 and 2 oz.
Pencil poppers in 1 and 2 oz.
Darters and Needlefish in 1/2 and 1.5 oz.
Little neck/Polaris/Solaris type in 1 and 2. oz
And possibly lures with grooves just for rigging eelskins. I've never used an eelskin rig but I've heard only good things about them. I would probably make them with multiple grooves so if you wanted to, you could make the eelplug a variable size. Also, what if the eelskin plug had dual holes in it? One where the through wire went, but the bottom one was just left empty so water could pass through and give the skin a better dimension. If you look in the Surfcaster catalog, they have a jighead made like that for eelskins.

Now I know John, you've said to me "Don't re-invent the wheel", but if someone hadn't reinvented the wheel, we wouldn't have the tire and you fellas couldn't drive around on the beach.

I like casting swimmers but I don't think I could make them because I would have to buy a bandsaw. The rest of the lures can be made with just a lathe with the exception of to the darter which would need a coping saw and a beltsander, two tools I own already.

As for colors of my plugs. Well that's simple. Black over white of course. All black, all yellow, and all white. The Yellow ones and the white ones would probably have red mouths. Probably an undercoat of white, then two coats of paint unless it's going to be white anyways. Then a spray lacquer, a coat of epoxy (west marine probably. That stuff is tough as nails) and through wire assembly.

Then of course the Needlefish will have to have an eel type finish.

I keep hearing good things about the Parrot color as a searching lure but that color would be hard to produce out of a can unless I could be proved otherwise.

Then of course eyes that last. Not those painted ones. Either oversized doll eyes or oversized prizm eyes before the epoxy coat. Honestly, I don't see how people over look the eyes. The lures that I have that produce for me, from bucktails all the way up to Windcheaters have that in common. Eyes.

Of course I don't have the means to go into full scale production but I could create enough lures during the winter to keep me in stock for years. Then of course I need some testers.

On a side note, all those chips that come off the while you're spinning the lathe, you can recycle those. All you have to do is melt some parrafin in the oven with a few other ingredients plus the chips and you have some great firestarters for campfires or fireplaces. Good for emergencies. The chips are also good for the compost pile.

Anyways, that's in the future.

[JCXX]

Hi All,

Long time no post for me hear. Have any of you canal experts used good old gibbs/superstrike darters at the ditch?

[JohnR]

Patrick, you are killing me via a slow death. Convert the energy and brain waves you display into a job. You may just impress
yourself... I would sure as heck be impressed. What the heck happened anyway? I thought you had something lined up?

[Patrick]

John,

<sigh> what am I going to do with you? If you look up at my edited post on the second page, you'll see why. I still have some hard work in front of me.

[Slipknot]

Well then spend your time doing that "Work" and get on with it already. I realize we can choose not to read your posts but come on, you're just thinking outloud to us. You seem to have WAY too much free time on your hands, maybe it would cure you to just get a job. Can you follow direction? Everyone has to start at the bottom and work his/her way up ( unless ofcourse your Dad is a Kennedy or something like that). Now wake up and get on with your life will ya. Good luck, Bruce

[Patrick]

Thread Hijack. Man the life boats. me first, then woman and children.

Hey, Mike P was just wondering if anyone out here will make high quality plugs. Yeah, I was laying out some thoughts because believe it or not, the opinions of the people on this board matters to me. I was looking for some input actually.

I know I have to start at the bottom man. But what good am I going to do when I can't really meet people without getting sick to my stomach. Would you hire a person that couldn't deal with customers? Right now, I have to focus on getting better, then work will follow. That's the final say I'm having on the whole Me working issue and I'm not going any further into it. If you have any questions, email me.