Should "wetsuiting" be its own category of fishing

[schererw]

Copy and paste the below hyperlink. It takes you to Paul Melnyk's article on his first "winning" fish via skishing in Montauk that may have helped create the skishing category for some tournaments in Montauk:

http://www.surfrats.com/montauk/view...ghlight=locals

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Obviously these guys are very, very good fisherman, but I suspect their fish were taken on eels in the rocks. Other than bluefish, the only handicaps to fishing eels are distance and depth. A wetsuit makes both irrelevant. Hence its real advantage and likely a crucial factor in both guy's WELL DESERVED success.

I know at least one of the guys would tell you the wetsuit helps tremendously. In fact, he busted my chops for the better part of two seasons for not owning one while he was bailing fish. Keep in mind he's an outstanding fisherman without one, but an even more effective fisherman with one. I don't know the other guy real well, but I would sumrise the wetsuit helps his success rate too.

[Flaptail]

What is your opinion of wet suits for beach fishing?

[Joe]

With open beach wading in waders, the problem is getting through that first trough - it's often too deep to wade without flooding your waders.
After that, the beach comes up to a terrace and then slowly tapers to the second trough or the offshore trough. The inside of that second dropoff, that's a killer spot to fish - particularly near a cut, it's like an on/off ramp for fish patrolling the beach.
With waders, you can only open beach wade under low surf conditions after a period of favorable wind that has replenished the first trough, otherwise that decent down the first trough is too steep and deep. Open beach wading in a wetsuit greatly expands the opportunities and conditions for this type of fishing.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

What is your opinion of wet suits for beach fishing?

For me, I wish I had the intuition 15 years ago to employ a wet suit on the cape. Sometimes I would fish the bars in my shorts in order to buy some extra time on an outer bar as I wasn't taking the risk in waders. Wetsuit in that situation would be the same as it is on the rocks:
It buys you time and potentially puts you into places you might not get to otherwise. Sometimes its only a matter of a few feet that separates you from the fish.

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

For me, I wish I had the intuition 15 years ago to employ a wet suit on the cape. Sometimes I would fish the bars in my shorts in order to buy some extra time on an outer bar as I wasn't taking the risk in waders. Wetsuit in that situation would be the same as it is on the rocks:
It buys you time and potentially puts you into places you might not get to otherwise. Sometimes its only a matter of a few feet that separates you from the fish.

At 6'-6-1/2" I never had that problem especially since they made waders in tall sizes but I think a wetsuit would help a great deal problem is for me it would be a custom job and I cannot bear that kinda of expense at this time for fishing.

The last few years, when we did actually catch fish it has been in the inshore troughs rather than the outer bar so I have been spending more time in waders barely getting my feet wet, which seems kinda dumb because you could do the same thing in hip boots at a % of the cost.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

At 6'-6-1/2" I never had that problem especially since they made waders in tall sizes but I think a wetsuit would help a great deal problem is for me it would be a custom job and I cannot bear that kinda of expense at this time for fishing.

The last few years, when we did actually catch fish it has been in the inshore troughs rather than the outer bar so I have been spending more time in waders barely getting my feet wet, which seems kinda dumb because you could do the same thing in hip boots at a % of the cost.

Its definitely a "situational" piece of equipment. I'm in the same camp as you with regard to not having to go deep to catch fish. The deepest I typically go is about waist deep to reach one of my favorite rock formations.

I did try the wetsuit/swimming thing this year despite having resisted doing so for the better part of two years. The reason it took so long was......fear. I can tell you after doing it there is plenty to be afraid of. Despite the big fish stories you've heard, there's many skunks and close calls involved too. It certainly gets glorified in the magazines too and rightfully so from a catching standpoint.

I have a brand new 7MM hyperstretch in my basement that's been used once and honestly wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't get used again. I swam about 40-50 yards in the dark this fall to a small perch which I shared with a couple other guys and didn't feel comfortable the whole time. I can tell you one of the other guys was quite uncomfortable too after he had a bit of difficulty breathing while traveling to the rock. Fortunately we all made it back ok and were laughing once on shore, albeit nervously.

I routinely did risky stuff like this in my 20's and can see the appeal wetsuiting has to the younger guys in the sport. There is definitely a thrill factor involved which adds to the game. Lots of times in the past I though only about what could be gained. At 38 with wife, two kids, good job, etc. there's no fish worth the risk for me as I've accepted my level of status in the fishing game. There's plenty of fish to be caught in ankle deep water too....

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Its definitely a "situational" piece of equipment. I'm in the same camp as you with regard to not having to go deep to catch fish. The deepest I typically go is about waist deep to reach one of my favorite rock formations.

I did try the wetsuit/swimming thing this year despite having resisted doing so for the better part of two years. The reason it took so long was......fear. I can tell you after doing it there is plenty to be afraid of. Despite the big fish stories you've heard, there's many skunks and close calls involved too. It certainly gets glorified in the magazines too and rightfully so from a catching standpoint.

I have a brand new 7MM hyperstretch in my basement that's been used once and honestly wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't get used again. I swam about 40-50 yards in the dark this fall to a small perch which I shared with a couple other guys and didn't feel comfortable the whole time. I can tell you one of the other guys was quite uncomfortable too after he had a bit of difficulty breathing while traveling to the rock. Fortunately we all made it back ok and were laughing once on shore, albeit nervously.

I routinely did risky stuff like this in my 20's and can see the appeal wetsuiting has to the younger guys in the sport. There is definitely a thrill factor involved which adds to the game. Lots of times in the past I though only about what could be gained. At 38 with wife, two kids, good job, etc. there's no fish worth the risk for me as I've accepted my level of status in the fishing game. There's plenty of fish to be caught in ankle deep water too....

I used one this fall. Can't see swimming in it while wearing boots. I did, however, like it for wading. I'm often trying to get to rocks that are chest deep using a dry top....much more relaxing doing it in a wetsuit. It also lets you wade more confidently in a moderate swell/surf. The cushioning when you stumble is nice as well. Being wet is a downside unless the temp is perfect. It amuses me that when I fish by boat I'm always trying to get in as close as I can and land my plug in ankle deep water, and when I'm fishing the shore I'm always trying to get out as far as I can and cast as far out as I can manage. The biggest disadvantage I find is using it to get to a difficult rock, then catching a fish with a faceful of plug and trying to deal with it out there because getting back in is too much a chore. I also found myself fishing less because I'd think "if you go you should use the suit", but for a short trip it seems like too much work so I wouldn't go.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

there's no fish worth the risk for me as I've accepted my level of status in the fishing game.

Don't say THAT! It is never too late to start using plugs and rehabilitate yourself. We all make mistakes. Just say "no" to eels and move on. Wood will give you back your pride and let your children respect you again.

[tynan19]

Numbskull, try the dive booties with korkers laced onto them. I used 5mm in the fall and was comfortable and they weigh next to nothing.

[Pete F.]

I find that I am more comfortable wading in a wetsuit than waders. No fear of that one misstep and having to deal with being wet and cold. I don't have to swim to anyplace. Of course wearing a wetsuit I am already wet. I want a relief zipper though.

[Back Beach]

When I say be afraid, I'm obviously referring to the swimming aspect and pushing the envelope too far. Deep wading is quite different then swimming.

I will add though that everyone in my fishing circle who's donned a wetsuit has had a close call. These close calls involve falls,being smashed on rocks, drifting off course, hyperventilation,damaged gear, involuntary bowel movements, etc.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

The biggest disadvantage I find is using it to get to a difficult rock, then catching a fish with a faceful of plug and trying to deal with it out there because getting back in is too much a chore.

Real fishermen only need one hook. Six plus barbs is simply wasting steel in an attempt to bolster your percentages and thus your bragging rights. The people of Pittsburgh love you though as do the folks in Alaska.

[DJ Muller]

One thing I found to my liking is that the wetsuit has a much longer lifespan for the dollar than do a pair of waders. For example a fews years back I was fishing your typical Montauk rock with a brand new pair of Hodgman breathables that I just dropped a $125 on. As I slid off my rock I tore 3 slits in the inside of my leg and the water poured into my waders as the curses poured out of my mouth.
I have several wetsuits that I wear pretty much everywhere but in my home waters (NJ). When in places like Cutty, Mtk, Block or MV where boulder fields reign supreme, my waders never leave my dufflebag.
I could not wear a wetsuit out in a few years of wear, where waders, if I am lucky, last a year. I found a wetsuit last year that I really liked for the warmer months...a 3mm full body from O'Neil Reactor that I paid $100 for. That thing will last me for years.
A little off subject, like using the full suit its long sleeves and legs offer great protection against sharp edges...whatever they may be.

Add up all the ws variables safety, mobility, warmth, protection, and longevity and it becomes a clearer choice for the surfcaster that doesn't want to mess with the worries that waders offer.

[flyvice11787]

DJ, that's good info for those of us waffling on getting a wetsuit .

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by flyvice11787

DJ, that's good info for those of us waffling on getting a wetsuit .

I wouldn't count on being as warm in wet neoprene as in waders, fleece, and a dry top come Oct/Nov, particularly if there is any wind.

[DJ Muller]

Originally Posted by numbskull

I wouldn't count on being as warm in wet neoprene as in waders, fleece, and a dry top come Oct/Nov, particularly if there is any wind.

Come colder weather (late Oct/Nov.) bump up to a 5mm. At any time the wind blows in the dark hours, throwing on a drytop cuts the wind and keeps you warm until dawn early light. I've never had a "cold" problem with the 5mm, but the 3mm can get chilly at 3 am and not moving off your rock for two hours. The Reactor has the wind inhibitor which is why it caught my eye.

Here's my bud Jolliffe wearing the drytop w/ the ws to cut wind.

[flyvice11787]

DJ, are you wearing a 5mm one piece suit, or a farmer john, which may be slightly warmer?

[numbskull]

I used a 5mm full henderson suit, under armor cold gear beneath (top and bottom), a wool hat and a windproof top this fall (on the upper cape). Can't say I recall being warm or comfortable. Wetsuits are a useful tool, but you are still wet in them and when it gets cold and windy you will struggle to stay warm when wet....at least at my age.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by DJ Muller

Come colder weather (late Oct/Nov.) At any time the wind blows in the dark hours, throwing on a drytop cuts the wind and keeps you warm until dawn early light.

I like the dry top idea, but in my limited wetsuit experience a dry top can be a burden if you plan on swimming any distance with a top on. For deep wading its a great idea.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

I used a 5mm full henderson suit, under armor cold gear beneath (top and bottom), a wool hat and a windproof top this fall (on the upper cape). Can't say I recall being warm or comfortable. Wetsuits are a useful tool, but you are still wet in them and when it gets cold and windy you will struggle to stay warm when wet....at least at my age.

Don't feel bad, George. The young guys get cold too....that why I got a 7/5 suit. In the off season I suggest you do some acclimatization training with us. Next year you’ll be at the head of the pack...don't worry about the "cashew" jokes either, its all in good fun.

[shadow]

IMO wetsuit are great for certain fishing situations yet have not replaced my need for waders.To me they are a pain to get on and off,I feel fatigue much sooner when casting for long periods with a w/s verses when wearing waders
also when wearing a suit and not getting in the water much because of big surf or what ever I have gotten very itchy.Also like numbskull come a cold night in late oct I am cold even with my 5/7 and a dry top not to mention having to get undressed in the parking lot.If I need a wetsuit I will grab it,if I can get away w/ waders then thats what I will grab first.

[steve]

I've fished in a wet suit on and off(no pun) for about 20 years now and started using them way back then when no-one ,save for Montauker's, used them for surf fishing in RI. I originally bought my fisrt suit based on the recommendation of a RI surf fisherman friend who was a transplanted New Yorker who routinely fished Montauk. He talked me in to getting one which I did and found it to be invaluable for fishing(comfortably) some surf spots were I always ended up getting wet when I fished them with waders.I also used it to swim to so "off-shore" spots which were unaccessable to wader fishermen. I did OK in the wet suit but can"t say it was that much more productive than "regular" surf casting in waders or hip boots and splash pants. Although I didn't really "push the envolope" like some do. It was safer though and easy to pee. It was kind ofa pain to get on and off. All and all, I think every surfcaster should try it and really don't think there should be a separate division for such fishing.

[steve]

Oh, by the way, one of the best surfcasters that I've had the pleasure to know and to fish with never wore a wet suit , rarely wears waders and does all of his surf fishing wearing hip boots with golf spikes, Grundens splash pants and a waterproof surf top of varying weights depending on the season. He has 3, 50 pound bass and one 60 to his credit over the years. Like some one mentioned in this thread, a good fisherman is a good fisherman no matter what he wears. Also, wearing the hip boot/splash pant combo is very comfortable and not as restrictive or limiting as you may think. I probably do 85 % of my surfcasting in this outfit and don't believe I am "missing out" on any action.

[DZ]

Good thread Frank - I've used both methods over the years and here are my thoughts. It's a blurry line between "traditional" surfcasting (with waders) and those who fish with a wetsuit. IF you're "swimming" a considerable distance to a perch with a suit then you're pushing the definition of surfcasting - it might still be surfcasting but in my book I'd have to place an asterisk next to the term "surfcasting*". Conversely I'd still consider it traditional surfcasting if your wetsuit is primarily a way of giving you some more time on a rock or bar when you'd otherwise be filling your chest highs with green water. I had a conversation with a very good surf fisherman recently who was talking about how good the fishing has been the last few years - at the end I asked him the following question: How many of your large bass would you have taken this past season if you had to wear waders only? His answer - none. My point - many surfcasters think that fishing for big bass in the surf has been pretty good and some may even say that this year was the best year they've ever had - but many of them have really expanded their horizons by "swimming" to areas normally in the domain of boats (in some areas swimming up to 100 yards offshore in water depths over 15 feet) - I label these guys as "Wanna be a boat". In many cases when they tell me how good the fishing may have been I know I have to discount it because a traditional wader clad fishermen simply has no shot at the fish they are catching - "e.g." "Surfcasting*"

Use of wetsuits is here to stay and becoming more popular each season. What I see happening is that many of those new to surfcasting are going directly to a wetsuit. When they do this many tend to always want to get out to deeper water and while doing so swim right through the shallower areas where bass normally could be. I'm fine with this as long as these guys don't swim through this "skinny water" while I'm actively fishing.
But by not starting out with waders these new casters haven't learned the "when's, why's and where's" of a large part of the striped bass puzzle - fishing the shallow littoral zone(the region or zone between the limits of high and low tides).

DZ

[spence]

To date, the biggest thing keeping me from a wetsuit has been my weight. Being famous, I often have a lot of paparazzi hanging about ,and the thought of a candid with that belly bulging in a dark mass neoprene is simply not acceptable.

Now that I'm svelte, trim and otherwise incredibly handsome this issue doesn't present the same downside that it once did.

I doubt I'd take a serious swim, but a number of the places I like to fish are nearly impossible to access near high tide. I may look for a good deal online.

-spence

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by steve

Oh, by the way, one of the best surfcasters that I've had the pleasure to know and to fish with never wore a wet suit , rarely wears waders and does all of his surf fishing wearing hip boots with golf spikes, Grundens splash pants and a waterproof surf top of varying weights depending on the season. He has 3, 50 pound bass and one 60 to his credit over the years. Like some one mentioned in this thread, a good fisherman is a good fisherman no matter what he wears. Also, wearing the hip boot/splash pant combo is very comfortable and not as restrictive or limiting as you may think. I probably do 85 % of my surfcasting in this outfit and don't believe I am "missing out" on any action.

Good points. Prior to this year I was never convinced the wetsuit guys as a whole caught any more fish than the non, and I'm still not convinced.

I did finally get one due to the fact a guy I fish with regularly did real well with the suit this year. We were getting fewer opportunities to fish together as I wasn't too excited about wetsuiting and we always took roughly the same amount of fish using different strategies..he in wetsuit and me in waders.

This year was more lopsided between us for a couple months, so I got the suit and tried it out. My take is still the same, though, as its the angler and not the suit that makes the difference.
If you structure your fishing approach around the wetsuit, then it makes sense all of your fish will come via wetsuit fishing. Same goes for wader fishing.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by spence

To date, the biggest thing keeping me from a wetsuit has been my weight. Being famous, I often have a lot of paparazzi hanging about ,-spence

Just get one without a hood if you're worried about the size of your head...

[steve]

Dennis, You bring up some interesting , almost discouraging points. I guess that's not only a perception that the "bass are just out of casting range", that is for the wader clad surfcaster!

[spence]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Just get one without a hood if you're worried about the size of your head...

I'm serious, there's a photo of me in a wetsuit in Alaska some years back that's really terrible. I can't even bear to look at it.

To the point of the thread, a wetsuit isn't a boat. With a boat you're either in the boat or not in the boat. In a wetsuit you could be standing on shore, on a rock or swimming. It doesn't make a lot of sense to make a new catagory simply because you "might" be able to gain advantage by moving further offshore.

By this reason, we should also have a naked catagory for those who swim a la natural to their favorite perch.

-spence