Mass. weighs tougher protections for striped bass

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

If the SF Legislation is so good why are they always shopping it from State to State and have not passed it anywhere.

I don't agree with it, but I'm suggesting if your sentiments represent MSBA's stance (opposing it due to fear of the legislature being involved) then it doesn't make sense to me...its simply political posturing.

Opposing the bill due to the fact its not a solution to a perceived problem makes a little more sense to me. With either case you're opposing it (good), but there's got to be more meat on the bone, so to speak.

As an add on to the above, I would imagine the legislature doesn't want to be involved anyways.

[CowHunter]

Intherapy, gonna be drifting and dreamin' the sat and sun... We passed on today, no point with this front...need a 60!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Goose]

sup K

[maddmatt]

"Seriously though. As I have said from the beginning...a multi faceted approach that has slot limits and restrictions on quantities from both rec and commercial. And also the complete elimination of dragging for menhaden

As far as the rec goes perhaps there needs to be different classifications to distinguish between charters, personal boats not chartering, and non-boaters"

we can't enforce the rules we have now and your gonna enforce this??

[Mr. Sandman]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

"(30 fish is just not right)"
What is hard to understand here...we're dealing with a quota ...a million pounds is a million pounds...one at a time or 30 at a time. The main purpose of the weekly 30/30/30/5 open days & quota was to spread the catch out for a longer period during the season to avoid flooding the market, depressing the price and to allow the market/buyers to plan for a consistent supply over a longer period. If we went to 10 a day it's just more time on the water and $$ in gas.....same million pounds.

***lighting match, stand back BEGIN FLAME ***

You comm guys with "the quota is the quota no matter how fast we take them" mentality make me laugh. Why not take them all in one day then? Unlimited? 3/d is not enough, 10/d is not enough, you guys said 30/d is really not enough, 50 is a minimum you would like per day...But no, you need to get yours as fast and as many as possible befor the next guy can catch his...jezz... to me this spells personal greed. (Not to mention 14" comm fluke is a HOAX as well )

If you dropped it to something like 3 fish/day the $/lb would be even higher, the season would be more than just a few weeks and the fish would be taken over a much larger area, more people would be involved over a longer period . What we have now is 60+ boats working an area the size of a football field hard for 10+ hours a day putting a big dent in a local fish population leving next to nothing after the season is over. Also I think it would reduce the pressure on the bunker that get up this way. If you just need to get 3 fish, you don't need to go net a 1000 to put a 300 dead bunker in the water every other day to do it. Heck if you are any good, you can catch 3 fish with no bait. If you need 30+ fish, you need a lot of bait on board. (BTW what is RI's daily limit? )

Heck, forget this bogus R&R bass fishery all together, if the "quota" is the be all and end all, then if they just made the draggers sell the bycatch (instead of dumping it overboard dead unreported) they could meet the easily meet the quota ALONE without ANY R&R comm fishing. The money the state would SAVE from not having to give the juicy (and mostly bogus)tax write-offs to the comm R&R's (who we all know fish recreational with the gear they are writing off with, also I would suspect there is a little fibbing going one with regard to write offs as we all know fishermen tend to lie a bit) would more than make up for any loss due to loss of no SB lic fees. Moreover the charter guys should be counted under commercial, they are a commercial operation, they are getting paid to catch bass, that is commercial bass fishing.




Most comm R&Rer's just don't see the the beauty of the SB and don't think of it as a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch, not to remove at some bogus maximum yield theory for the benefit of a few. It is just something to catch and sell to them. Most comm guys are doing to this to write off their equipment (boat fuel slip gear, etc) and put a few bucks in their pocket. Why should the public be forced to subsidize your hobby? End this farce once and for all. shut it down.

GAMEFISH IS COMING
***burn baby burn, END FLAME***

[Doublerunner]

Originally Posted by maddmatt

"Seriously though. As I have said from the beginning...a multi faceted approach that has slot limits and restrictions on quantities from both rec and commercial. And also the complete elimination of dragging for menhaden

As far as the rec goes perhaps there needs to be different classifications to distinguish between charters, personal boats not chartering, and non-boaters"

we can't enforce the rules we have now and your gonna enforce this??

Well if rules can not be followed by responsible adults then maybe it needs to be shut down.

Someone said it earlier...money is at the root of all the problems. Get rid of the greed. There are those that care about the stock and those that care about how much they can make off it

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Makomike, sorry bud but you are wrong... Not all states require guides / charter boats need to report. Not a single captain I know reports in nj and I have an endorsement in mass that does not require a striped bass catch report. New York for instance does...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Go back and read what I wrote. I was not talking about any state requirement, but rather the federal requirement for all federal permit holders. I'd guess that about 95% of all charter/party boats hold a federal license and they are all required to file federal trip reports for every trip. Frankly, I don't understand how any charter boat could make a living without having a federal license.

[maddmatt]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

This thread reminds me of a good barroom brawl and after 25 years in the business I've seen more than one New Bedford squaredance break out...

Now that the combatants have pretty much finished beating the Jehovah out of each other after Mike stepped in as bouncer, there are some obvious conclusions

To a man, there seems to be little disagreement that the inshore striped bass fishery is in trouble and I hear that opinion from a pretty broad range of veteran surfmen that I respect. These are men with 30, 40 and in some cases more than 50 years in the fishery, both recreationally and commercially, and there are few, if any, substitutes for that kind of historical perspective.

Ultimately, whether you like it or not, striped bass are a shared resource and Stripers Forever is attempting an exclusive resource grab for the recreational sector. Period.

If - and this is really the fly in the ointment - if the data gathered from recreational licensing goes as expected, I think the recreational side - of which I am a member - is going to be in denial for some time to come over the facts

No one is blameless. The regulations have to be tightened and both sides have to take a hit and take the pain - the alternative is going to be a moritorium which will serve no one user group's best interests

And since I don't have a dog in the fight financially on either side, I don't have to "be careful" - I don't run a charter operation, don't manufacture or sell striped bass plugs, tackle, waders, bags, titanium pliers, books, flip-flops or any of the other accoutrements that mark your standing as a seasoned and knowledgeable sharpie

Nor do I have a commercial license, although I have many friends who do and that is their right regarding a shared resource

Money, as we all know, is at the root of all evil - although at this point in my life I've come to realize that ego and a deep-seated need for external validation is a pretty frigging close second

THAT was really good!

[maddmatt]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

What I think would help is to make it mandatory to show your sales slip from the year before in order to get a license again the next year. I bet a big percent of the licenses in MA go to people who just pay the fee so they can skirt the bag limits. They take all the fish a com license allows but sell zero. This is just paying a fee to get around the bag limit laws. People do it for taug and fluke as well as stripers. It should be a regulation something like if you had a license last year , you cannot get a renewal ubnless you can prove you sold more than x amount of fish the year before.

also good

[intrepid24]

just 2 cents here, i know how lousy the inshore fishing has been these last couple years. I honestly do not believe that it is because of the amount of fish com's or recs are taking, or that it is because their #'s are getting low. I believe that these fish have adapted to their surroundings, meaning because of a general lack of enough forage inshore to hold large bodies of fish, they have been surviving on sand eels, ocean herring, whiting, macks etc. in the vast areas of cold water offshore, where we would never expect them to be.

[trapperpierre]

...and......the well respected Marine Explorer.....Jacques Cousteau was not a big fan of recreational sport fishing....his views on food fish(i.e. striped bass) is a necessary supplier of needed protein......with a sucessful and sustainable fish management program-which is in place under the auspices of ASMFC......and..what is on the horizon is not good news for all involved in the multiple use striped bass resource........MPAs and other fishing restricted zones for the Atlantic coast...possible closures of major onshore, near shore. and offshore areas that are currently being utilized by both recreational and commercial fishing interests....not to mention enviro/animal rights groups waiting in the wings to pull the plug on all uses...............

[sokinwet]

Hey Sandman do you ever read anyones posts and attempt to understand what the other guy's opinion is, like most of the other posters in this debate, or do you just like to hear yourself repeat your same old tired mantra. Since I did read your post let me respond to your latest diatribe:
1st - a simple look at the economics of your 3 a day limit proposal would convince most of the obvious flaw in that logic. More costs, more fuel, more man hrs....same quota.

2nd - Well my "math challenged" friend do you really think the entire commercial fleet consists of the 60 boats fishing in "your" spot. Now let's see..a million pounds/20 lb. avg. = 50,000 fish/60 boats=833 fish ea. boat/30 = 27.7 for each boat for virtually every day of the season....roughly 16,000lb. a boat. A quick look at the permit/catch data previously posted shows this is BS. If I'm wrong be assured there will be 61 boats there nxt. year.

3rd - We're also killing all the bunker....never mind..this is just to far from reality to even comprehend.

4th - So instead of a regulated R&R fishery you would rather see the draggers sell their bycatch...of course then the bycatch just might turn into the target species. We wouldn't want to address the bycatch issue on it's own...just give these "few" guys the quota to catch....while they're dragging in the sacred EEZ and shut out the other couple of thousand guys who just may also rely on that income.

5 - Juicy, bogus tax write offs? I guess you never filled out a small business return...what was that about some type of log books you sell?

6. Charter fish = commercial catch. So I guess that means...Sandman can't catch a fish in his new boat (only because the new rig isn't ready for sea of course) so he charters w/CowHunter to catch his 2 and those are now commercial fish? Tell that to the restaurant who wants to sell that fish, the tourists who want to eat it or the guy who works in the fish market.

7. Most comm this.... most comm. that...Well Karnac...I would say that mostly you don't have a clue about most anything we're about.

[dannyplug1]

I can understand commercials if fishing is the main source of income for the family. If you fish commercially to reduce the costs of boating or just do it to make money its not right. All I know that I fish like a bandit for a keeper and then let it go. You commercials if you had your way would destroy a beatuful wild creature to line your pockets. And dont give me the argument that you are entitled to your fair share as you have in the past. When our ancesors came to this country they fournd it to be a virgin wilderness with wild game for all. You cant just go into a national park and take as many as you want. We have reached a point where commercial fishing and hunting should not be legal. Market hunting for ducks has been banned for a great many years. It is not legal to sell trout and other game fish in any state that I know of. Bottom line if people want to eat striped bass they should be raised through aqua-culture not through the destruction of a wild symbol of our nation that brings pleasure to millions of Americans rather than making a bunch of people with other jobs rich. Yes I want you guys put of of bussiness before you destroy the resource.

[sokinwet]

"or just do it to make money its not right"

HUH??

Personally I fish commercially so I can argue with guys who sound like they took a wrong turn @ the PETA web page.

[inTHERAPY]

Originally Posted by dannyplug1

I can understand commercials if fishing is the main source of income for the family. If you fish commercially to reduce the costs of boating or just do it to make money its not right. All I know that I fish like a bandit for a keeper and then let it go. You commercials if you had your way would destroy a beatuful wild creature to line your pockets. And dont give me the argument that you are entitled to your fair share as you have in the past. When our ancesors came to this country they fournd it to be a virgin wilderness with wild game for all. You cant just go into a national park and take as many as you want. We have reached a point where commercial fishing and hunting should not be legal. Market hunting for ducks has been banned for a great many years. It is not legal to sell trout and other game fish in any state that I know of. Bottom line if people want to eat striped bass they should be raised through aqua-culture not through the destruction of a wild symbol of our nation that brings pleasure to millions of Americans rather than making a bunch of people with other jobs rich. Yes I want you guys put of of bussiness before you destroy the resource.

So let me get this straight. (please insert any name for "I" ) I bust my hump all work week long to make my living for myself, family, community, etc. I have the good fortune to own a boat, maybe, and have the skill to catch a legally marketable fish. So, in the course of a season I can put, say 5K, 10K, 15K worth of fish on the market. Because I bust my hump for 50k at "work" I should not be "able" to get a license and sell fish. Who are you kiddin?

Since when did a bass become some almost holy symbol? It's a fish.

[big jay]

Farm raised fish taste like chit....

[jmac]

<<Most comm R&Rer's just don't see the the beauty of the SB and don't think of it as a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch, not to remove at some bogus maximum yield theory for the benefit of a few. It is just something to catch and sell to them>>

I resent that statement....I have been fishing for striped bass for close to 40 years, (commercially);I have fished recreationally during that time for bass (when commercial seasons are closed), because I love to fish, i.e., on the water at sunrise, fresh air, exercise, etc. I LOVE everything about bass fishing....and if I can make a legal, supplemental income off of that, to give a person who does not have access to that resource the right to walk into a seafood market or restaurant, have a bass fillet to eat, just adds to the whole experience. After all, it is "a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch". Suffice it to say, you said it in your own words.....Its a shared resource for all.

I, and others like me, abided by the moratorium of the early 80's; we knew that it was needed for the health of the fishery. We also knew the plan would work, and the bass would recover, and that quota's would be devised based on historical catch records for individual states. That has come to fruition. The bass are a recoverd species...with up and down cycles that have been recorded since records have been kept.

As an aside, I attend various marine fisheries mtgs, public hearings, advisory panels, and I am so appreciative of the scientists and biologists of our state agencies to work to solve all the various problems that are involved with marine fisheries. These people for the most part are smart, dedicated people. They do care.... the tools of their science (data modeling, sampling, computer-aided tools, on the water analysis/dragging) are constantly being utilized....It's a shame that they sometimes get a bad rap by people who don't take the time to get to know them...

[SAUERKRAUT]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

***lighting match, stand back BEGIN FLAME ***

You comm guys with "the quota is the quota no matter how fast we take them" mentality make me laugh. Why not take them all in one day then? Unlimited? 3/d is not enough, 10/d is not enough, you guys said 30/d is really not enough, 50 is a minimum you would like per day...But no, you need to get yours as fast and as many as possible befor the next guy can catch his...jezz... to me this spells personal greed. (Not to mention 14" comm fluke is a HOAX as well )

If you dropped it to something like 3 fish/day the $/lb would be even higher, the season would be more than just a few weeks and the fish would be taken over a much larger area, more people would be involved over a longer period . What we have now is 60+ boats working an area the size of a football field hard for 10+ hours a day putting a big dent in a local fish population leving next to nothing after the season is over. Also I think it would reduce the pressure on the bunker that get up this way. If you just need to get 3 fish, you don't need to go net a 1000 to put a 300 dead bunker in the water every other day to do it. Heck if you are any good, you can catch 3 fish with no bait. If you need 30+ fish, you need a lot of bait on board. (BTW what is RI's daily limit? )

Heck, forget this bogus R&R bass fishery all together, if the "quota" is the be all and end all, then if they just made the draggers sell the bycatch (instead of dumping it overboard dead unreported) they could meet the easily meet the quota ALONE without ANY R&R comm fishing. The money the state would SAVE from not having to give the juicy (and mostly bogus)tax write-offs to the comm R&R's (who we all know fish recreational with the gear they are writing off with, also I would suspect there is a little fibbing going one with regard to write offs as we all know fishermen tend to lie a bit) would more than make up for any loss due to loss of no SB lic fees. Moreover the charter guys should be counted under commercial, they are a commercial operation, they are getting paid to catch bass, that is commercial bass fishing.




Most comm R&Rer's just don't see the the beauty of the SB and don't think of it as a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch, not to remove at some bogus maximum yield theory for the benefit of a few. It is just something to catch and sell to them. Most comm guys are doing to this to write off their equipment (boat fuel slip gear, etc) and put a few bucks in their pocket. Why should the public be forced to subsidize your hobby? End this farce once and for all. shut it down.

GAMEFISH IS COMING
***burn baby burn, END FLAME***

The striped bass commercial fishery is a disgrace...it is a disgrace of the democratic principle of will and benefit of the majority, and the idea of a public resource protected for the greatest good of the greatest number. The commercial fishery is a disgrace of management, enforcement, and the reluctant compliance of its participants... to which I refer to the Buyers, the Counters, the Middlemen of all levels, as well as the R&R suppliers. Kill this commercial fishery.

[Saltheart]

Originally Posted by Doublerunner

Get rid of the greed.

Yep , if we could do that we could solve about 90% of all the worlds problems. The tough part is how?

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

Yep , if we could do that we could solve about 90% of all the worlds problems. The tough part is how?

Crafty is on to the answer. Reread what he said, it is, I think, the most intelligent thing that has come out of this thread.

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

Money, as we all know, is at the root of all evil - although at this point in my life I've come to realize that ego and a deep-seated need for external validation is a pretty frigging close second

So let's have a group hug, , somebody lock this thread, and all get back to bashing people from Franklin.

[Sea Dangles]

WOW!!! one filibuster from Sauerkraut and it all gets brokeback mountain.

It boils down to the law;whether you fish comm or rec or a little of both.If you are observing the established laws then you are treating the fishery with respect.This thread is a classic example of why opinions are like a holes,everyone has one and they all stink.Me,I guess I fall into that category of angler which Crafty described.I too will be in VA beach in a few weeks to try and vacuum every slob out of the sea in order to win some dough.Along the way I hope to get some laughs,meet some new people and most of all...fish again.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

5 - Juicy, bogus tax write offs? I guess you never filled out a small business return...what was that about some type of log books you sell?

Howabout all the guys selling to the back of restaurants right off the boat? Or crossing state lines with fish?

I'm sure plenty of people on here know names.

[sokinwet]

Well if you ever ate bass on the South Shore @ Bobby Hackett's or the old Red Coach grills in the 60's & 70's there's a good chance it was delivered out of the back of an old Ford station wagon, but today you would have to be a fool to risk boat, truck, fines, etc. to sell to other than a legit. buyer or to sell fish without a permit....and my wife doesn't let me cross state lines so that's not an issue.
Frankly if you're so concerned about the resource and "know names" and aren't calling someone out then you shouldn't be pointing fingers. And if you ever see me breaking the "laws" well my name is *******...my number and the EPO's are in the book. And if I meet you on the water remind me that you're the guy that insinuated that I'm a crook.

[Doublerunner]

I recently spoke to a friend of mine about this issue. This is a life long fisherman who used to be in the commercial business. There is no doubt in my mind that if he was still a commercial fisherman that he would have been able to retire from what he could have made but he considers some things more important than the almighty $$$.

Here are his thoughts in his own words;

The typical tactic of defending all comm's as being honest and above board is still being beaten to death by an individual that either never fishes or talks to another comm, or is completely ignorant to the facts.
The number of fish sold without reporting, AKA black market, in my opinion and estimation, is fully equal to the reported catch.
***** is towing the line, defending his "right" to kill as many fish as he can without any sense of responsibilty for his actions. Brings me back to the quote "People will eat Squid".
Disregarding the clause submitted in the bill where Mass reserves to comm quota as conservation stock is somehow missed in the argument. Using Jerseys mistake of allowing recs to keep an extra fish, is also their excuse to fight this as just another way to allow the high end $'s the recs spend compared to comm's as a money grab by the government.
There are way too many recs out there that have no clue as to what is happening right now. I recently talked with a boat owner about the status of Stripers, and he showed exactly what I've been saying for quite some time. He only started fishing for Bass 8 to 10 years ago. He justifies stuffing the seat cushions with fish to offset the cost of fuel. If he doesn't come in with at least 8 fish, the number he designated, then it wasn't worth leaving the ramp. I suspect he also has outlets to sell his fish as well. There are way too many fishermen out there that bought boats during the real estate bubble on false income, and fished stocks on the rebound. Everything looked rosey, and life was good. 24 foot boats fully outfitted with electronics, and networks with cell phones, allowed less than average knowledge possesing fishermen to achieve great success hammering Bass at the Block and Montauk. To those that never fished the crash years, the great majority of them out there, they have no understanding that what they were seeing was as false as the Freddy Mac/ Fanny Mae mortgage programs that people were using to buy houses they couldn't afford with money they didn't have.
It is amazing to me that Stripers Forever is slammed by people who do understand the repurcussions of the current status quo. I would bet that ******embellishes his number of years on the water, as he would understand that the fish are not showing up in the places or numbers we used to get them at during the pre-crash years.
Tunnel vision reigns supreme with him and his brethren, all they see are the numbers in the bank account. Bass are nothing but money and as I have said in the past, that is all that matters to him and his type.
If I had not lived the crash or maintained the Bass are dollars attitude, I could easily have been making 10 grand or more a year in un-reported sales. There were times when I had the boats in the water that temptation was real, and the number of times I was approached would astound you. My reputation, pre internet, was well known on the Island, the armada would follow me and watch through bino's to see what I was doing. Playing with them would have me laughing for days as people started pissing on their tubes, copying what they thought I was doing to catch fish.
Continue the fight guy's, they care not about us or our children, or grand children. It's all about the numbers in the bank.

[Doublerunner]

Convinces me more than ever it needs to be given permanent game fish status

[Jenn]

This thread should be aboutStriped Bass regulation. Not slinging mud at each other and calling each other out. Fact is we are ALL here because we fish and at some point we have all killed at least some fish. So lets keep it civilized please. If you want to call someone out or accuse them of breaking the law do it in private. It doesnt belong here.

[sokinwet]

We'll I'll apologize if the tone of my posts went over the line, but....Jenn as far as removing my name, I'm not afraid to put my name behind my position and I prefer to let those insulting me know who they are talking to.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Me,I guess I fall into that category of angler which Crafty described..

Ya missed the point. The need for external validation applies to the guy with a flyrod as well as the guy with a gaff. You are right, though, that we all use these fish for our own purposes so nobody is holier than anybody else as long as they are acting within the law.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

You are right, though, that we all use these fish for our own purposes so nobody is holier than anybody else as long as they are acting within the law.

...even guys from Franklin

[WESTPORTMAFIA]

I have been reading this long enough and figured I would finally make a post. YOUR ALL WRONG. Only kidding. But my take is that no matter what the reg's are or will be. There are not enough resources to enforce the laws.