Finishing Lure Shop/Getting Started with Pencils

[Eric Roach]

My 11' x 13' lure shop is framed-out in the basement. An electrician is coming today to add a sub-panel and to wire the outlets & lighting. I have my new Jet 1014I, a 1hp dust collector, a 17" drill press and a mitre saw. A 14" bandsaw and an air filtration unit are on order. I still have to pick up a belt/disc sander, a grinder to sharpen lathe tools, a lead smelter for jigs and lure weights and a Vega (down the road). I'm going to pass on a table saw for now and just rip my stock with the bandsaw.

It's been a lot of fun getting set-up. I'm really excited. Usually the winter is just a long drawn-out wait for the bass to return, but I'm really looking forward to the time I have to build. I figure I'll be finished with the basement and ready to turn by the first week of January.

I have a good friend in NH who turns and locally sells his spooks, poppers, pikies & dannys, so I feel I have a little bit of a headstart in tool selection, building technique & safety.

I'm going to initially stick to making pencils/skippers throughout the winter as I learn the differences in wood characteristics, weighting, manipulating action, etc.

I like pencils with these types of action:
1. A model that can whippy-stick well in a wind-blown chop with minimal nose-diving.
2. A model that walks-the-dog like a spook at a slow/medium clip in calm water.
3. A model that is a compromise between the two (something like a Gibbs).

I'm wondering if anyone has any beginner's advice in terms of wood type for pencils in general, and possibly for these desired actions in particular.

Thanks,

Eric

[BigFish]

Eric just a curious question so we know where you stand as far as tool expertise? Have you any experience on a lathe? I ask because when I started I had none.

[numbskull]

You are going to learn that it is very hard to improve on anything Stan Gibbs built. You will find the same for Don Musso and Danny Pichney.

Start with the Gibbs design ( 2.75 oz is a good one and one of the very best bass plugs ever built), from there you will find that if you lessen the tail weight (or move it forward in the plug) to get the plug floating at more of an angle, you will get an easier and longer walk the dog action. If you widen the waist and increase the weight, you will get a plug that will slap a lot but not glide much (I don't like this...but bluefish do).

Wood choice isn't as important as weight/width/length/float angle. Eastern White Pine, sugar pine, basswood, AYC, and presumably red cedar all work fine. AYC is the densest. Soft woods will dent if used in the canal.

Some step drills are very useful for tail weighting plugs on center. Or drill the weight hole first and finish through drilling from there.

[BigFish]

If you have no lathe experience I would recommend simply turning some shapes to get a feel for the tools, possibly find a book about turning so you can get an idea of the proper technique. If you have experience try turning some known plugs as Numbscull suggests to get a feel for the process and an understanding of form and function.....also test your finished plugs (prototypes)prior to the finishing proess to make sure they perform as you wish. Its best to test them in the water naked to be sure they do as you wish prior to sealing, priming, painting so you do not waste alot of time on a plug that does not give you the proper action. I presume you also have fishing experience? You need this to know what you may be looking for in a plugs action? You don't speak much of your experience so its difficult to advise?

[GattaFish]

Pictures,,,,

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Eric just a curious question so we know where you stand as far as tool expertise? Have you any experience on a lathe? I ask because when I started I had none.

Minimal. I've turned a couple of plugs on my buddy's lathe, but I'm going to have to have him by my side once everything is together and I'm ready to begin. I don't plan on turning anything before that out of fear of doing something ill-advised or downright dangerous.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

You are going to learn that it is very hard to improve on anything Stan Gibbs built. You will find the same for Don Musso and Danny Pichney.

Start with the Gibbs design ( 2.75 oz is a good one and one of the very best bass plugs ever built), from there you will find that if you lessen the tail weight (or move it forward in the plug) to get the plug floating at more of an angle, you will get an easier and longer walk the dog action. If you widen the waist and increase the weight, you will get a plug that will slap a lot but not glide much (I don't like this...but bluefish do).

Wood choice isn't as important as weight/width/length/float angle. Eastern White Pine, sugar pine, basswood, AYC, and presumably red cedar all work fine. AYC is the densest. Soft woods will dent if used in the canal.

Some step drills are very useful for tail weighting plugs on center. Or drill the weight hole first and finish through drilling from there.

Hi numbskull -- good to see you on here. I appreciate all the practical advice.

When the shop is done I'm going to pick up a small quantity of each of the wood types you mentioned. I'll probably buy more of the cheapest so I can burn through some stock while I'm learning the basics.

My friend makes nice, thin pencils with a great walk/glide I'd like to emulate in different sizes. They wobble somewhat on the cast, but I guess that's the price you pay for that action. They still outcast a spook of the same size and they catch some excellent fish.

I like Striper Sniper pencils for whippy-sticking, but I wish they'd cast better (at least the 2 oz)...I'd really like to build a pencil that casts true and thrashes well at distance in a chop.

I hear you about attempting to improve on a Gibbs. One of my favorite just-for-fun daytime lures is a 1 oz Gibbs pencil. Casts extremely well and catches fish of all sizes. I'd like to build a 3/4 oz version of this. I'm also looking forward to putting better belly swivels in pencils of this size.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

You are going to learn that it is very hard to improve on anything Stan Gibbs built. You will find the same for Don Musso and Danny Pichney.

Start with the Gibbs design ( 2.75 oz is a good one and one of the very best bass plugs ever built), from there you will find that if you lessen the tail weight (or move it forward in the plug) to get the plug floating at more of an angle, you will get an easier and longer walk the dog action. If you widen the waist and increase the weight, you will get a plug that will slap a lot but not glide much (I don't like this...but bluefish do).

Wood choice isn't as important as weight/width/length/float angle. Eastern White Pine, sugar pine, basswood, AYC, and presumably red cedar all work fine. AYC is the densest. Soft woods will dent if used in the canal.

Some step drills are very useful for tail weighting plugs on center. Or drill the weight hole first and finish through drilling from there.

Good to see you, numbskull. Thank you for the advice.

I'm going to pick up a little of each of the wood you mentioned; more of the cheapest stuff so I can burn through some stock as I learn.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by BigFish

If you have no lathe experience I would recommend simply turning some shapes to get a feel for the tools, possibly find a book about turning so you can get an idea of the proper technique. If you have experience try turning some known plugs as Numbscull suggests to get a feel for the process and an understanding of form and function.....also test your finished plugs (prototypes)prior to the finishing proess to make sure they perform as you wish. Its best to test them in the water naked to be sure they do as you wish prior to sealing, priming, painting so you do not waste alot of time on a plug that does not give you the proper action. I presume you also have fishing experience? You need this to know what you may be looking for in a plugs action? You don't speak much of your experience so its difficult to advise?

Aside from my friend's direct help, I'll probably take a lathe class at my local Woodcraft store.

I'm going to stick to pencils/skippers at first until I get the basics down and am able to repetitively (not perfectly) build pencils that I would choose over ones I would buy (tall order, I know).

I plan on doing a lot of testing. I have distinct actions in mind so I feel like I have clear goals (at least for this style lure).

I have about 13 year's experience striper fishing.

[numbskull]

AYC and Red cedar are pretty allergenic. Pine and Basswood are good to start with and very easy to turn.

Learn to use a skew, the rest is simple.
3 tools only. Roughing gouge, parting tool, and 1+ inch skew.
4 sets of calibers.
A long tool rest.

[Slipknot]

for pencils, I like red cedar
be careful the dust is real bad
you could seal the red cedar with epoxy and it will make it harder.
port orford cedar is fine also

[Pete F.]

You can use a handheld belt sander to sand what you need to start and also use it to sharpen your lathe tools. You can melt lead in a dollar store ladle with a propane torch to start. Use maple to make some weight molds, if you find some that you will make tons of then a fancy one would be in order. I agree with numbskull and would also suggest that you take your favorite plugs and copy them to start. That way you have one that works perfect to use as a guide for how yours work. You can turn out a lot of stuff really quick, but then again bluefish need plugs too.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

AYC and Red cedar are pretty allergenic. Pine and Basswood are good to start with and very easy to turn.

Learn to use a skew, the rest is simple.
3 tools only. Roughing gouge, parting tool, and 1+ inch skew.
4 sets of calibers.
A long tool rest.

Thanks. What is a caliber?

I met my friend at Woodcraft tonight and got some Sorby turning tools: A 3/4" roughing gouge, a 3/16" diamond parting tool & a 3/4" skew. He also mentioned these are all he ever uses for plugs.

I ordered a 12" tool rest and the 10" Vega duplicator.

I also brought home a 17" Jet drill press, a Jet wet grinder and a Rikon 4" belt/6" disc sander...I'm all done obtaining the power equipment (though still waiting for the bandsaw & air filtration unit).

All I have to do is finish the actual shop and I'm ready to begin. I'm sheetrock-ing the ceiling this weekend. Things are looking good for having it completely finished New Year's weekend.

[Slipknot]

I think he meant calipers = a measuring device

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You can use a handheld belt sander to sand what you need to start and also use it to sharpen your lathe tools. You can melt lead in a dollar store ladle with a propane torch to start. Use maple to make some weight molds, if you find some that you will make tons of then a fancy one would be in order. I agree with numbskull and would also suggest that you take your favorite plugs and copy them to start. That way you have one that works perfect to use as a guide for how yours work. You can turn out a lot of stuff really quick, but then again bluefish need plugs too.

Thanks for the advice, Pete (Slipknot too). I guess I'll be starting with the Gibbs pencil design and exploring from there.

I appreciate all the starting advice from everyone.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

I think he meant calipers = a measuring device

Ah, I see.

Numbskull: Why do you recommend four sets of calipers?

[Slipknot]

that is so you can speed things up a bit by keeping them set at strategic places on the plug body so copying is quicker when you check those spots as you turn.
It's a process.

[Tagger]

On the beach/rivers I like gliding pencils . but usually opt for a spook .. although my best river PP this year was a 80's factory loaded 5.25" Cordell .. .. In the canal I like bouncing pencils (hawg hunter style weighting).. I call it "The trying to get the hell out of the water " look .. cast like missles too ..

[numbskull]

By calipers I mean simple mechanical ones. You will set one for your tail size, one for your head size (on swimmers) and one for the widest spot on the plug (maybe a fourth for some other area on the plug).

You will turn a cylinder with your gouge, then use your parting tool and calipers to set the 3 or 4 crucial dimensions. You will rough down close to final shape with your gouge, connect the dots with your skew, touch up with sandpaper, and start another body.

I think a 1 1/4 " skew is easier to use than a 3/4 " one, a 3/4 " roughing gouge is a good tool, although I use a 1 1/2" gouge more often (both work and the 3/4 better for final roughing). Get a simple square sided parting tool, it is better for flat ends and faster (more stable on the tool rest than the narrower diamond tool) unless you need a thin profile for detail work.

A duplicator is a mixed blessing.

[Swimmer]

Hey Eric, this thread is useless without pictures of the construction and of the finished product, that is the tool shop. Take some pics and upload.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

that is so you can speed things up a bit by keeping them set at strategic places on the plug body so copying is quicker when you check those spots as you turn.
It's a process.

I understand now -- thank you.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Hey Eric, this thread is useless without pictures of the construction and of the finished product, that is the tool shop. Take some pics and upload.

I'll snap a few shots this weekend of the construction and put them up.

[Eric Roach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

By calipers I mean simple mechanical ones. You will set one for your tail size, one for your head size (on swimmers) and one for the widest spot on the plug (maybe a fourth for some other area on the plug).

You will turn a cylinder with your gouge, then use your parting tool and calipers to set the 3 or 4 crucial dimensions. You will rough down close to final shape with your gouge, connect the dots with your skew, touch up with sandpaper, and start another body.

I think a 1 1/4 " skew is easier to use than a 3/4 " one, a 3/4 " roughing gouge is a good tool, although I use a 1 1/2" gouge more often (both work and the 3/4 better for final roughing). Get a simple square sided parting tool, it is better for flat ends and faster (more stable on the tool rest than the narrower diamond tool) unless you need a thin profile for detail work.

A duplicator is a mixed blessing.

Do you use a 1 1/4" skew for small plugs too?

What would you say the cons are to a duplicator?

[BigFish]

Get a duplicator later, learn how to turn by hand first! It helps to know how to turn by hand and you will need to turn by hand to make your master bodies for templates. Don't try to skip on the learning curve.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Eric Roach

Do you use a 1 1/4" skew for small plugs too?

What would you say the cons are to a duplicator?

A skew only cuts with the bottom half of it's width, and only a 1/16" section of the edge is in touch with the wood as it cuts no matter how narrow or wide the blade. The wider tool gives you more control as you swing/lift the handle. 3/4" is OK, but wider is better unless you are doing fine detail work (which plugs don't require).

The other VERY important thing about skews, and something that took me years to realize/find out, is that they need to be sharpened with a flat bevel.......not hollow ground on a wheel and then given a secondary bevel like most other tools. The skew is held steady by three points of contact; the tool rest, the edge, and the bevel which rides on the work behind the cut. Get that geometry wrong and spectacular stuff happens......very, very quickly (hence the face mask).

Duplicators require patterns. Patterns take time to make so once you make one you tend to get locked into that shape. When you turn freehand you will find that the shape you start with often evolves as you go. Evolution of what you are making leaves opportunity for improvement and learning. Once you have a shape you are sure you like then duplicators are fine and take a lot of the tedium out of turning multiples.

[Striperknight]

Originally Posted by numbskull

By calipers I mean simple mechanical ones. You will set one for your tail size, one for your head size (on swimmers) and one for the widest spot on the plug (maybe a fourth for some other area on the plug).

I have to say this is a great tip. I only use one set and I have to stop to
adjust all the time. Time to run out and buy some more.
Do you color code or label the calipers some way? I know when i get multiple ones its gonna be hard not to mix them up.

[Pete F.]

I put a piece of tape on my tool rest and put marks on it for end of plug and major/minor diameters. All my blanks are the same length and if they are center drilled I do that first. This makes it so you can set up for drilling and drill them all right/wrong at once. Make the blank a cylinder, use the skew to define the ends, gouge again to get close to shape, skew to clean up, sand. I usually lay the plug I am making or a picture behind the lathe so I can match the curves. Depends on how good your eye is if that will work for you.

[numbskull]

Masking tape and layout marks on the tool rest is a major time saver.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Get a duplicator later, learn how to turn by hand first! It helps to know how to turn by hand and you will need to turn by hand to make your master bodies for templates. Don't try to skip on the learning curve.

Yep.... thats part of the fun.

I do use my duplicator most of the time now but I still use the tools to make new designs and once you find a new design that works pissah then you can slap it on the duplicator and make a template.

When Plugfest rolls around....ain't much on the table there that was created with a duplicator.

[Mr. Krinkle]

I agree about turing plugs before you start using a duplicator. I would rather turn plugs by just using tools and not the duplicator. To me it is much more enjoyable than just ripping a body on a duplicator. There are videos on turning wood on youtube if you need a visual. Good luck and enjoy.