MSBA Action Alert--Stripers Forever Bill Could Pass- Only One Hearing--This Thursday

[numbskull]

[QUOTE=CowHunter;739362]I have yet to break the 50lb mark in every state, but yes, one day I will have a 50 from every state I fish for my trophy room. That is my personal Goal. So I got a few states covered thus far. We all have personal goals..Is that so bad??

[QUOTE]

Depends on how you define "bad".

A fifty caught and released in every state you fish would be a better goal....at least as far as your kids, other's kids, and other people are concerned. When others pay a price for someone else's goals some people would see that as "bad". Your business, however.

[intrepid24]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Intrepid24, My biggest problem is they want the Striped bass a Gamefish, BUTTTTTT They want to be allowed to kill one for the table... They want to go from Harvesting 90% to Harvesting 100%????

i feel that there are some bruised ego's in play here, if you are a are a known producer, then you just can't care about the resource...cuz you kill soooo many. being good is a curse in this front.

[CowHunter]

Numbskull... I have released 50lb fish... How many can say that???

Not directing this at you numbskull, but people think just because you commercial fish that you kill everything you catch everytime you fish... I happen to let go more than I kill in a season...

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

So according to you JohnnyD, I can only pick one of the above... I have to pick a side as you say..... Yes its one vs the other.... Geez I am sure I am the only one in this situation???

...

Im sorry you have such Hatred for Commercial Bass fishermen...

I'm not saying you have to pick one of those, I'm saying you can't advocate for conservation and go on about how terrible it is about how many fish get killed by charters and how bad for stocks commercial fishing can be, then go out and run charters and commercial fish.

The hypocrisy of it is what I'm bringing up. Or is it a "Do as I say, not as I do" type situation. It seems like you want everyone else to make adjustments, but you don't want to change the way you fish.

You may not agree with the laws, but you sure have no issues taking advantage of them. Basically, you're posts come off like a PETA person that eats steaks.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Numbskull... I have released 50lb fish... How many can say that???

Almost every person I fish with, multiple times... except for me unfortunately. Still hunting for my first.

[CowHunter]

JohnnyD, Please show me where I mentioned that Commercial fishing is bad for the stocks? I know I never did, Im defending the 10% commercial catch because its nothing compared to what the recs kill... I want people to open there eyes and see how much damage is being done recreationally. As recs we kill way to many fish, period... The charters do fall under recreational catches under recreational limits....

[trapperpierre]

..various trust fund/Foundation sponsored enviro/animal rights organizations are are waiting in the wings to pull the rug out of all SB user groups(and ALL types of fishing)..........we should focus on this tradegy in the making............

[intrepid24]

Originally Posted by trapperpierre

..various trust fund/Foundation sponsored enviro/animal rights organizations are are waiting in the wings to pull the rug out of all SB user groups(and ALL types of fishing)..........we should focus on this tradegy in the making............

as difficult as it may be, we need to be allies against such interests....

[MAKAI]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Yeeeeshh
That'll be a divorce just waiting to happen.
Watch your back.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Numbskull... I have released 50lb fish... How many can say that???
.

And I think I've released a few, too..........only I never got to see them .

Hopefully someday releasing large SB will be the norm, just as in freshwater the norm is to release a 10 lb LMB.

That isn't happening, however, as long as large fish have monetary value when dead (be it for commercial sale or charter/recreational purpose).

I agree that the attitude of recreational fishermen causes more harm to SB population than commercial (obviously).......but I think that the commercial take is a major factor in setting the mindset of most fishermen (both recreational and commercial) that SB are something to be exploited. Until the monetary value of dead striped bass becomes insignificant, attitudes are unlikely to change. Eliminating commercial take is a necessary, but not sufficient in itself, step to getting there.

I don't expect you to agree, your perspective is different than mine and neither perspective is more right than the other. Those differences are settled by legislative actions and since professional fishermen are way more organized than amateur fishermen I don't expect to see a change until either the fishery collapses and/or the legal system (under environmental challenge) shuts us all down.

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by numbskull

I agree that the attitude of recreational fishermen causes more harm to SB population than commercial (obviously).......but I think that the commercial take is a major factor in setting the mindset of most fishermen (both recreational and commercial) that SB are something to be exploited. Until the monetary value of dead striped bass becomes insignificant, attitudes are unlikely to change. Eliminating commercial take is a necessary, but not sufficient in itself, step to getting there. .

Exactly! How do you get the recreational fisherman to except a reduction in limit when for a hundred dollars someone else can get 30.

The Mass commercial license is just a partial return to the old days where recreational fisherman can sell fish. Plus a little bit of a money grab for the state. It's a Mass quota, why would they sell non-resident licenses if they weren't looking for the bucks.

[dannyplug1]

At the risk of offending, I am tired of the BS a fish killed by a rec, a commercial or by catch is dead and cannot contribute to the survival of the striped bass. I think we should all bite the bullet and have a moritorun on taking any bass until we can straighten out the problems they are having in the Chesapeake. As much sense as this seems to make I have doubts that it will ever happen. There is just too much money involved. We pushed the bass to the edge of of survival in the eighties and I think it is only a matter of time. Commercials and rec fisherman enjoy the bass while they last. Think it cant happen look at the passenger pigeon, think about the halibut fishery in the atlantic that was destroyed by 1900. I detest the weekend commercial fishermen- those who deplete an endangered public resource to line there pockets. I have some sympathy for full time fishermen. But the good do not always prevail. I just want to be able to look at my children when they ask daddy "Whats a striped bass?" I think some of the participants in this thread (who I prefer not to mention) will regret their greed when the bass go the way of other fisheries that were once prolific and thought to be inexhaustible.

[CowHunter]

Mike, First where can I get a comm license for a hundred??? Hook a Brother up Man!

30 fish is the limit, they shut it down when they hit 1.1 million pounds....

I think it would be a great Idea to have rec guys pay $100 for a saltwater fishing license, Give them to a quota of 1.1 million pounds and shut it down when the quota is hit..... 100 fishermen catching 30 fish a day is 3000 dead fish.... 1500 fishermen catching 2 a day up and down the coast is 3000 fish, the difference is the 1500 fishermen can fish every single day from when the fish arrive to when they leave, 7 months straight, seven days a week...

Why do people have a hard time grasping 30 fish? The quota is still 1.1 million pounds... Its hit and then shut down, so what if it is 10, 15, 20, 30 or 40 fish a day... I am so certain that everybody is getting theyre 30 fish Mike... If that was the case the season would last a week... Why is it that all the big wieght days come in on Sundays when its 5 Fish a man? Not the 30 fish a day... More people doing it, and its easier to catch 5. It doesnt take a genius to figure out how easy it is for the recs to kill more...

If it was that easy to get 30 fish every Single day we would not be having this debate because the Striped Bass Stock would be Healthier than it ever was... Guess anybody can get a license for $100 and catch 30 a day!!!

[CowHunter]

DannyPlug, I think SB is far from extinct..... People have gotten spoiled the last few years.... We do Have an EEZ where the Bass are protected... I will say this about the Chesapeke, At Least they Shut it down to Harvesting from Jan 1 Til May - Catch And Release ONLY... Im suprised the SF Folks dont head down there from Maine and Enjoy a Fine Catch and Release Fishery.... You can catch all the little dinks you want, till your arms fall off....

[dannyplug1]

Look at the young of the year indexes for the chesapeake. Typically there are a series of off years then there is a year when every thing comes together. This has not happened in quite a few years. When the fish were evey where there was a correlation with the YOY indexes. The Chesapeake fish are in trouble! acres of the bay are dead the menhaden which provide the best ratio of nutrient to the bass are being whiped out. And from a personal perspective I know the ammount of small bass are going down. Fishermen up and down the coast are support the scientific reality that stripers are in trouble. For many reasons people do not want to see the truth. Are we supposed to wait till we are on the edge like the eighties. We should all bite the bullet and release all bass. I cant expect others to make sacrifices if I wont.

[seabuggy]

The mortality rate from rec fishermen is greater than the total take of the commercial guys. Fly fishermen kill every fish they catch. These are facts from the study done by the state of Massachusetts, paid for by us. This commercial fishery has been in Mass for hundreds of years. Leave it alone.

[CowHunter]

DannyPlug, I am aware of the YOY indexes, I believe 06 was the worst with .5 a sienne and 09 had like 3.5 or so... Think a 700% increase or so. In any case it is troublesome, but what is the cause?? I hear the biggest Blame is the run off from the farmlands and not overharvesting, even though Ive seen some impressive rec kils there in December and outside in Jan... In fact the Com guys Harvesting BlueCrabs are Blaming the Striped Bass for eating them... Finger Pointing Everywhere... And Yes the Menhaden is a huge factor....

Agian, correct me if I am wrong on the YOY, That was just off the top of my head...

[CowHunter]

Seabuggy, been saying that for weeks on here....

[inTHERAPY]

Cowhunter, You've said all that can be said. I do not know of anyone that has fished as extensively and intensely as yourself. I am sure you have more first hand, east coast experience, striped bass fishing, than 99% of all fishermen. You've stated your points as clearly as anyone has, in any forum. I have a better understanding of the coast wide fishery as a result. Thank you. Charters are over, commercial is closed, tournaments are done. Hibernate. Art

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Mike, First where can I get a comm license for a hundred??? Hook a Brother up Man!

30 fish is the limit, they shut it down when they hit 1.1 million pounds....

I think it would be a great Idea to have rec guys pay $100 for a saltwater fishing license, Give them to a quota of 1.1 million pounds and shut it down when the quota is hit..... 100 fishermen catching 30 fish a day is 3000 dead fish.... 1500 fishermen catching 2 a day up and down the coast is 3000 fish, the difference is the 1500 fishermen can fish every single day from when the fish arrive to when they leave, 7 months straight, seven days a week...

Why do people have a hard time grasping 30 fish? The quota is still 1.1 million pounds... Its hit and then shut down, so what if it is 10, 15, 20, 30 or 40 fish a day... I am so certain that everybody is getting theyre 30 fish Mike... If that was the case the season would last a week... Why is it that all the big wieght days come in on Sundays when its 5 Fish a man? Not the 30 fish a day... More people doing it, and its easier to catch 5. It doesnt take a genius to figure out how easy it is for the recs to kill more...

If it was that easy to get 30 fish every Single day we would not be having this debate because the Striped Bass Stock would be Healthier than it ever was... Guess anybody can get a license for $100 and catch 30 a day!!!

Rod and reel permit $35.00 and $30 for striper endorsement.

The difference is in one case 1500 people get to enjoy the fishery. In the other case 100 get to make money off the fishery.

Your right if it was easy to catch 30 fish a day there would be no reason for this discussion. But then, when you have to limit the general public to no more than two fish a day I think that is an indication that the stock can not support a commercial fishery.

Yes, there is about a 3 million mt quota for commercial, about 20% of the total catch. The number of recreational fisherman is continuing to increase. In this situation in my opinion the first place you cut is the commercial quota. You want to maintain a public resource in a manner that benefits the largest number of people.

[stripermaineiac]

There's an old addage that fits - Figures lie and liars figure.
There perverse mentality that prevade this whole arguement is the fish come last. I've been watching this thread and several others. I see the same arguements now as were there in the 80's. A moratorium was put in place due to the fish being last back then too. Greed and selfishness are still the same. Those of us that stepped up for the fish back then had to deal with the same as now. There are only a small number coast wide that commercial fish for the striper. The true numbers show that only a handfull are responsible for the bulk of the catch. Catch an release is so common now and people keeping only a couple fish a season is more the norm now. Sportfishermen cut back when needed as has always been the way.As do some commercials. But the loud greedy ones still want the buck irrigardless of the end results.New boats and motors ,surfing trips,cruises and new SUV's are the driving force as only a very small group really need the buck that comes from a few weeks of sales. But better to have those bucks till the fish are gone. MMMMMM like cod fisherman killing thousands of lbs of small cod in the nets to get the 400lbs a day yrs back till the fishery was all but destroyed.If the buck is that important to you then go for it. But stop lieing an say you care about the fishery.I haven't kept 3 dozen fish in 4 yrs.I spend more time fishing than most people do.I love the taste of the fish but not to the point of killing all that I can.And put the real numbers up.10 percent by a couple thousand to 90 for several million.10 percent of several million comes out to several hundred thousand. MMMMMMMM not several thousand so don't complain about unfair. The fish are whats important not the buck. my thoughts. Ron

[CowHunter]

StriperMaineiac, Im gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on the catch and release part and I think that is where you dont have an open eye too.... You think every sportsman is like you and practices catch and release??? I dont have a single charter that does catch and release, nor do any of the other guides I know, they kill their limit... As do most other people that I know... I may know of a handfull that primarily catch and release, actually ONE of the top of my head.... But your right, turn a blind eye to what is really going on and blame the comms, they are the sole problem. I am sure STriped Bass will rebound with a vengence If they did away with the Mass Com season... I am sure you honestly believe that...


Ive said all I have to say, Im with Artie on this... Later guys...

[kearp1]

Lots of opinions here and after all we do live in america where you are allowed to have and voice an opinion.
I will not voice my opinions here but leave some food for thought.

1 What can we as fishermen do to ensure the health of our stock? (ie. just because you can take two doesn't mean you have to) Think about it, (there are lots of answers) do it, and encourage others to do the same.

2 Is letting more government control another aspect of our lives the right answer? (remember we do already have an agency that regulates the fisheries)

If you want real change get educated on how to get those changes made. Most people are logical and a logical argument can go a long way in unifying people with a common cause. Extremism never works.

I have personally decided to stick with my fishing club, MSBA, become more educated in the way the regulations work,learn the proper ways to go about changing them, and become more active in the process.

I invite you all to join a club where you can voice your opinion,stand side by side with fellow fishermen, and become involved .

Perhaps you will achieve more finding the middle of the road and getting something you can live with ,even if it isn't exactly what you want.

[MAKAI]

No way you are going away.
Charter trips "generally" take people who don't boat fish a lot, so of course they want, and get, to keep as much as they can . But for most of the fishermen I know (many ) we have boats and ways and means to get to fish. We don't fill the box, why bother you only need a couple a year. We fish for FUN, a release from the trials and tribulations of stressful lives in hard times, a hobby. If you were not making money off it, I'm sure would and do fish for fun also.
Few here are begrudging your career, charters are necessary so everyone can fish. We have no real issues catching fish, move around a bit you'll find them. But the shorebound guys ( the majority of fishermen) are not seeing fish as they used to. For lots of reasons, hence their concern.
Your manner of speaking to us is a bit pontificating and it rubs some people the wrong way, thats why you get the reactions you do. Not me though, I was a Southie project punk. We all speak like this. Try a different tact, you may find a different result.
Personally, I think the Basses foremost problems are in the very beginnings of their life, not how they end up killed.

[stripermaineiac]

Well as far as catch n release being so destructive if it were every waterway along the coast would be littered with dead floating stripers everytime there was a good bite going on. Funny that you never really see that after a good blitz. there are some but definitely noe wheres near as many as there should be by all the quote reports of mortality deaths due to release. as far as few practicing it well up here in Maine it's a must due to the limits. 1 fish a day period.20 to 26 in ot over 40 in.I see anglers all over the place releasing fish bass an blues. Remember it's not just charter fishermen out there.
As far as my post goes well this whole issue is basically about the commercial rod n reel in Mass. The other issues are still being fought. by-catch is a joke and does so much damage it's unbeleivable but that is another fight in another venure. I beleive NOAA is looking into that along with RFA an other groups. The buck did the stripers in in the 70's an 80's an is doing it again now.
Maine is just one example of the effects. With the huge ammount of bait up here the last few yrs we should be walking on stripers but we're not. Mackeral,squid,herring/alwives,bunker,sandeeels,smelt an so on.Just few stripers.
Our striper fishing has declined continually since the rod n reel seasons and shore gill netting were restarted to the point that large stripers are few n far between up here after the Nova Scotia stocks head back north in the early spring n summer. even with our growing populations from those fish stocked up here in the Kenebec an other waterways they've spread to aren't filling the gap made . Add the huge fish kills by netters and it's not a good picture.
Sportfishermen can only keep 1 or 2 fish at a wack. From what it used to be -keeping dozens of fish a night an keeping them all no matter how big or small.Yup more can and is being done and preached about. Just don't seem to hear any give ups from the commercial side of the hook. Just want want an want more bucks.If another larde school of stripers move into the Vineyard sound all the commercials will fish them till they're gone. Guys like me might catch a few but we'll still have to put all but 1 or 2 back in the water to fight again. an you'll never convinse me that stripers are more delicate than largemouth that get caught as much as 4 or 5 times a day and released again and still live.
as far as Stripers Forever goes well it's not a fly club just like Stripers Unlimited wasn't yrs ago. We had to deal with the retorick back then as now. It was about the buck then and it is so now.Short of not fishing at all many of us really can't go much farther in our steps for consevation. We rarely keep any fish but that really doesn't count as we only land a few thousand fish a season and release them. Ron

[dannyplug1]

Cow hunter I dont mean to be rude. But how are people on the other side of the issue supposed to take you seriously. I am not a marine biologist, but I do know that the fish on your postings will never live to breed again. Furthermore, the one time use of of legit harvesting vs killing is misleading ... using benign term is like calling sorta like calling a strip club a gentlemans club vs titty bar. Additionnaly it is not fair to the vast majority of rec fisherman who recessitate, and carefully realease bass and allow some one else the possibility of catching that fish again. When a commercial charter or a rec fisheman takes a bass he or she has insured that two things will happen. 1. That fish ]will not breed again. 2. No one islse will have the pleasure of catching that fish again. I agree that there will be some mortality associated with catch and release fishing. I use a minimal amount of hooks with no barbs and do not fish live or dead baits. There will be some mortality (farr below the amount in the Mass study in that study you fail to mention that the fish were gut hooked. However there is 100% mortality when any one keeps a fish. Furthurmore as you point out there are many more rec fisherman than commercials. In a democracy the needs of the majority are supposed to prevail over those of special interests (Commercial weekend fisherman) . One time use for a game fish has to become a thing of the past as has the whole sale slughter of the passenger pidgeon, buffalo, and market hunting for water fowl. Bass should be a strictly catch and release game fish!

[trapperpierre]

...do the math,,,,,,,10% killed by commercials.......90% killed by Recreational/charter..=100% dead

[dannyplug1]

Bass should be a no kill species for the forseeable future. Never happen too much money and too much greed.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by trapperpierre

...do the math,,,,,,,10% killed by commercials.......90% killed by Recreational/charter..=100% dead

The percent killed by whichever group isn't an argument. It all comes down to how many more bass are being killed than replaced.

[dannyplug1]

All that matters is that the fish are not replacing themselves as fast as we are taking them. I personally dont think they can stand up to the pressure that commercials, charters, and rec fishermen put on them. I think the answer is a total moritoriun like in the eighties. If we screw this up or allow ourselves to be controlled by special interest groups we may loose the bass entirely.