MSBA Action Alert--Stripers Forever Bill Could Pass- Only One Hearing--This Thursday

[trapperpierre]

....... continue the freeze on commercial..........reduce recreational/charter....no argument just reporting...just common sense.........just acknowledge the excesses of the Rec/charter group of anglers.............and back off from hard cap commercials who are a very small percentage of the ASFMC "death pie"of striper mortality.......and the available data indicates a wash of one fish recruited to the population.....one fish is removed as killed, eaten, mounted, or sold.......multiple use is the soul of America's utlization of our natural resources.....a intended resource grab under the guise of gamefish status is reprehesible....with good managment of striped bass is basically in place...........all striped bass user groups should concentrate on the bait issues as they relate to striper dietary needs......and should "pay attention" to various extremist enviro groups totally planning to end fishing as we know it....................everyone should save one's energy for the real battle that will be decending on all who participate with activities(sport, livelyhood) that has a live creature(i.e. fish) in the equation.....the massive funding that is available to the anti's to eliminate activities that include live creatures is frightening..................we all better wake up........all of us before it is to late....

[dannyplug1]

Commercial fishing as we know it is an anacronism. When the whiteman cam to this counry game was abundent and a person could feed there family with wild game. You cant just go out to a state forrest and shoot enough game to feed your family for the winter. Nor can you sell the game you shoot. People used to be able to do this the buffalo hunters feeding the rail road workers, the market hunters on the chesapeake. The vast majority of the food that we eat has been grown or raised. We cant continue to take from the seas at will we are just too good. We have destroyed habitat and the food sources of the bass. Look at the other commercial fisheries the government is buying back licenses look to the future we are depleating the fish in the sea at an alarming rate including the striped bass. This is a scientific issue which has been hijacked by the greed of a few vs the future. A wild Bass is too important to be sold like a pittyfull hatchery raised ten inch rainbow trout. Bass should be taken off the market and the charter industry, and the recreationals should not be allowed to take fish for the near future.

[trapperpierre]

........I hear ya cow Hunter...............

[BasicPatrick]

This Legislation was not a debate about Commercial vs Recreational...this legislation is now dead in the water...let's let it die...let's move on...let's debate when we have something reasonable to debate...why get into a debate over dead legislation

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

This Legislation was not a debate about Commercial vs Recreational...this legislation is now dead in the water...let's let it die...let's move on...let's debate when we have something reasonable to debate...why get into a debate over dead legislation

This isn't a debate over the legislation any more. This is a discussion over some of the items that were contents of the legislation - something that still affects striper fisherman.

This is a reasonable discussion - what needs to be done to protect the species. The current regulatory process is impotent.

[stripermaineiac]

well Pat this is a debate thats been going on since the 50's. You really think it's gonna go away just because its getting close to taking the price tag off the stripers for a while so they have a chance. Well don't see it happen. Funny thing is that a great many of us that are pushing for gamefish status now used to do commercial and saw the effect of our greed and decuded the fish was more important than the buck .Guys like Bob Pond who aren't with us anymore left a legacy with many of us to carry on. protect the fish not the fisherman so we'll always have it to fish for.
we protect the fish we end up protecting the fishermen too both sport an commercial. But it's okay as when the feds get fed up with our bickering they put a limit or a moritorium on the fish to do what we won't. Ron

[BasicPatrick]

I agree the debate will go on forever. I just don't get what we are debating, what is the point. This thread is now so confused with so many separate issues that it is not going anywhere.

Seriously, I welcome and actually urge many threads and debates but what is the point of debate if the stated problem keeps changing and the potential solutions are not focused. Reads a bit like a lot of whining and sub agendas to me. LEts separate them out and have some intelligent discussions on individual subject matter.

I just hope some of the banter of those engaged in this debate turns into more action at future meeitngs. At the upcoming ASMFC we will hear the report on the stock asessment update and that is the time to voice our concerns. I hope some organizations actually show up. Obviously most people have to work but that is why we join clubs and raise money for organizations, correct?

Will Stripers Forever be there?

We'll see who shows up as I (MSBA) will be there, honoring Bob Ponds legacy of science based management and not fisherman's bull %$%$%$%$.

[Swimmer]

I think that we should ask the stripers to all stand still for as long it takes us to do a head count, then go from there.

[BigFish]

I agree Frank! Funny how they think they have any accuracy what so ever for stock assessment! What a joke! Any more than they can give us accurate mortality rates for catch and release!!! "Excuse me Mr. Striper......could you drop me a line in a day or so and let us know you survived the catch and release? We are compiling data for our reports and it would help!" Its all half assed estimates and unfounded "facts"! I never put much faith in those reports! They can just fudge the numbers any way it suits their needs!

[Sashamy]

The one factoid you all seem to be missing is that there is no hard tac for recreational bass fishing! Yet in all commercial fishing there is a quota which equals 65000 bass, yup they are over 34" inches and yes they may be breeding fish, but they have bred at least once and in most cases 2 or 3 times. My question to you guys is this...how would SF bill have helped the fish? answer in short it wouldn't. They are a greedy organization, and anyone that knows me knows that I do stand for the fish, for example I will not fish for baby tuna...do I begrudge the guys for doing it? at first yes I did just like you guys are begrudging the Ma commercial fisherman, but do i now? Nope...have at it...opinions are great but with opinions you need compromise, SF offered no compromise and even went as far as to say that the legistlation was not aimed at stopping commercial fishing...but line 4 of the bill read...prohibit the sale of wild striped bass in massachusetts that included the importing of bass from other states...that is completely selfish...do I personally think the bass is in trouble? Nope and I fish for them more than most of you...I start in the surf in late April and finish my charters around the end of September/early October...I never had a problem catching fish at all from the boat or surf...the surf was different last spring as the bluefish were thick early so I fished bass at nite and was extremely successful...sometimes you have to change your methods thats what makes it fun!

But to say that the massachusetts commercial fishery should end and Maine will have some fish is wrong. To say that the Ma commercial fishery is the problem is wrong as well. Charters for example kill a lot of fish...I take 12 a day for my customers if they want them and most of my clients want to release the smaller fish and keep the BIG ones...can u imagine that a person wants to keep a big fish...infact there are periods in the summer when I don't see a fish smaller than 30 plus inches...so lets do the math together...there are about 7 charter boats in barnstable...if each does 60 trips and limits out once a day at 12 fish that is 5040 fish, now sesuit has 7 boats thats another 5040 fish....rock harbor has 30 boats thats 21600 fish...this does not include doubles and is being constructed in a vacuum...that is half of the commercial quota and that was being modest in my numbers of trips...now add your weekend warriors...the charterboats on the south side....plymouth...green harbor...scituate...Gloucester...boston....do you see my point...our commercial season is a drop in a bucket and in no way a problem to any one of you...so I say please step off your high horse and stop blaming the commercial fisherman for what you say is the problem...the problem in the chesapeake is not massachusetts...it is chemical fertalizers...a moratorium is not going to stop farming is it?

Capt. Doug Amorello

[MAKAI]

I've stated a bunch of times that the biggest issue is the pollution, destruction of the natal estuaries.
Not how they end up but how they start.
How do you deal with that issue ?
Anybody ?

[BassDawg]

i just read everything that ALL of you said~~~
well put, some self-servingness, mostly passionate!

it ocurrs to me that "gamefish" status needs to be more clearly defined, since it seems to vary state-to-state. while i am for a comm moratorium, i believe that their 10% should be completely removed from the take quota so it does not become a fish grab. i also would support a reduction in the recreational take by at the least 75% of what it is currently allowed by ASFMC. very simply, 1 Striper @ 36" per day. 1/day would get you 50% less of a rec take, the 36" would (i'm guessing) be good for somewheres close to 25% more, roughly? this would be more of a compromise from both sides of the fishery killing machines and would certainly ease some pressure on our precious stocks.

lastly, i agree with Pat that thankfully SF was shut down. peer based science is most definitely the way to go with regard to ASBass. yet, this ALL seems moot if we DO NOT address the contingent issues that are most definitely intertwined within the intricacies of our marine resources. for me and my tax dollars spent, we should do ALL of the following:

1)FIX THE FORAGE: a ten year moratorium on ACMenhaden, period!!

2)FIX THE BAYS: the estaurine and spawning grounds pollution of the Hudson, Chesapeake, and the Outer Banks Stocks has led to, imho, the single most egregious waste/kill/depletion of our beloved species and on a much broader spectrum than science can EVEN MEASURE right now. as i understand from what i've read, it is impossible to generate the numbers/science that can give us an accurrate assessment of the horrific levels of damage that has been wrought by the big money interests(golfing, fertalizing, PCB'ers) and Industrial Greeds(Poultry, Pork, Purse Seiners) attached to this worsening plight on the species AND their spawning domains.

3)FIX OUR TUDES: as has been said, and i wholeheartedly AGREE, if we cannot reach mutally agreed upon limits and guidelines for the betterment of the Striped Bass' biomass moving forward, then we are falling into the well placed snares of these multi-lateral conservationists groups that WILL NOT stop at limiting our kill.

if we place our joint concerns and financial interests towards the advancement of a healthy and viable American Striped Bass fishery, then perhaps we could actually walk away from these boards with a legacy that does not echo our ignorant past, that promotes proactive conservationary actions for our future, and a proud legacy that reflects an attitude of change towards our resources and species as cohabitants to this God Blessed and God Given beauty that truly is The Striper Coast. in my view, it behooves us ~exponentially so~ to do NO LESS than to reasonably sacrifice what we deem is OURS simply because we are the dominant species.

how's about ONCE, just once, we GIVE something back to Nature(the surf) and something back to Beast(the stripah, bunkahs) at the unconscionable~ at least by today's standards ~ benefit to BOTH!!! is it even possible for us to get out of our own greedy, self-proliferating way at this point of "civilization". or has capitalism and the industrialization of America done enough, YET??!! what will it take for us to change our attitudes towards our resources,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a collapse in our environment, ice caps melting, completely unviable estuaries??

something clearly has to GIVE, and we seem to be the only entity capable of doing so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the bigger questions lie in the WHEN, HOW, and the WILL WE, change???

[Sashamy]

Right BD that would be great in a world where the streets were paved with gold, but they are not! People make their livings utilizing the SB and until science proves that we are overfishing this stock than nothing needs to be done...however we do not disagree on all points the forage issue does need to be addressed, but again your attitude albeit positive, is not realistic...there will never be a 10 year moratorium on a fish that for the past 100 years has lived in cycles that scientists can not explain...by reducing the catch the way u see it we will putting a lot more fish back into the sysytem...probably not we will mostly create a population of skinny bass again...malfeasian economics says it best populations will control themselve with war famine and disease...the striper is best left alone to its own devices right now....we need to clean the environment that they spawn in..thats what brought them back in the 90's not only the 36" size requirement.

Doug

[Crafty Angler]

Lots of cogent points have been made here regarding the already defeated bill in MA but there are just as many contradictions in the arguments supporting each side of the issue - which is par for the course on this hot button issue

First, the science is supported and then questioned as a baseless guesstimate at best.

There have been posts documenting the plight of the fishery and then others would like to have you believe that it's never been better and any problem is more the result of sheer lack of skill on the part of the angler

Personally, I don't think that's the case and that opinion is supported by surfmen who have enough time in to be taken seriously.

They have no financial ties to the striped bass fishery as pinhookers, charter skippers, shop owners or their employees, tackle manufacturers or lecturers which would have to make those opinions suspect from the start. So consider the source first

IMNSHO, it is not the robust fishery it once was and that's not through the rose-colored lens of nostalgia

But removing comms from the equation would have been somewhat like treating a cancer patient with Tylenol and the relief - if any - would have been as short-lived as it was short-sighted. Just be ready - while it may be over for now in terms of the bill in neighboring MA going down in flames, you can fully expect SF to make another stronger run on it. A skirmish was won, not the war, they're not going away and I don't doubt that they'll be back with reinforcements to push their agenda

A broader, more holistic approach is needed because there is simply no one user group or single contributing factor at the base of the problem and a part of the recreational sector is also going to have to shoulder the blame

It's not the commercial guys, it's more of a case of 'all of the above' as has been noted here

Just a question I'd like to pose to you all in regards to the health and sustainability of the fishery, regardless of your stake - whether it's money or ego or a combination of both

If it were proven beyond the shadow of a doubt - after more accurate data is collected on the recreational impact on the fishery as a result of the license - would you be willing to support a complete moratorium on striped bass for a period of several years to aid in it's recovery and future health?

You could simply find another job, another sport or another hobby for a few years

Or you could still continue to fish if you wanted to target another species - like scup, blackfish or bluefish, for instance - or maybe go the freshie route

Yes or no?

[numbskull]

Absolutely.

[Nebe]

I'd love a full blown moratorium... What better way to give the fish a chance to recover to what it was like 10 years ago.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sashamy]

so we need to recover these fish again?

[Sashamy]

I just would like to know without sounding stuck up...have you guys really not caught any fish in the last ten years? Have you seen a problem that is fish number related or bait related? I would testify more bait related...I will gladly take any of you who do not get offshore much, starting in may and show you schools of bass with no less than 500 to 1000 fish in each school, that you can see for miles from cape cod bay all the way to the northwest corner....the fish are fine, they have changed their patterns because of lack of food on the beach, they used to follow the herring...well as we all know the runs are not what they used to be...so they in turn follow the squid and mackerel and sand eels...where are they? offshore...sad but true..the eez(which I don't fish) is full of healthy spawing big female bass and they are there all summer from PH to the bank and east and lets not get started bout the rips off Nantucket and crab ledge...the BB Buoy the fish are fine we just need to stop the herring boats and manage the dogfish to heathy levels....Doug

[nightfighter]

I truly am of the opinion that it is about the bait. Or the lack thereof.

Locally, if I can fish live pogies, I am almost certain to be able to find fish large enough to take them whole. After the seiners come into the harbors and wipe out those schools of bait, the bass are gone within a week, using pogies or not.

The local surffishing has been on a serious downswing up here for a few years. But if you go out to Stellwagen, just 15 miles away, there are many large bass. Forty and fifty pounders are taken pretty regularly on the troll. Are they aware they are in the EEZ???? Or are they there for the ample buffet available to them?

I have participated in the Martha's Vineyard Derby for the past two years. A week each year. One fish, my first albie in year one. Two albies and a bluefish this past year. What bait we saw was what the albies were on. Really didn't feel I had a shot at a bass from shore. The numbers were down. But I am of the opinion that they just weren't there. But they may well have been somewhere else where bait was more plentiful.

Last June we had probably our most productive trip to Cutthunk in the seven or so years we have been going over there. Was it the moon, the tides, or what? I figure I have run or been on twelve trips to Cuttyhunk with S-B members, with an average of 14 guys on each trip. That's a lot of wood, eels and tin that we've pitched into the night. What did we do different this time? Beats me. Personally, I had four good fish back to back in a half hour period around 2AM. And then nada. They just happened to be there when I was casting as I was making my way back to the club.

The past year was a good one for me from the boat. If I have live bait, I can go toe to toe with any of the local comms, and they know it. I am not for taking away the commercial limit at all. It is a drop in the bucket. The numbers put up by Cowhunter and Sashamy are what should be more alarming here.(ie. the number of charters keeping two fish per man per day, as allowed by the current law) It is indicative of what the rec take could be. I just can't see the need for a two fish per person per day, and would be all for going back to a one fish per day. This would establish a reasonable starting point for those of us who wish to truly be conservators of the resource.

[afterhours]

[QUOTE=stripermaineiac; Funny thing is that a great many of us that are pushing for gamefish status now used to do commercial and saw the effect of our greed and decuded the fish was more important than the buck .Guys like Bob Pond who aren't with us anymore left a legacy with many of us to carry on. protect the fish not the fisherman so we'll always have it to fish for.
. Ron[/QUOTE]


amen.

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by Sashamy

Right BD that would be great in a world where the streets were paved with gold, but they are not! People make their livings utilizing the SB and until science proves that we are overfishing this stock than nothing needs to be done...
Doug

utulizing or abusing??
American Buffalo ring a bell?

one man's uses,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
is another man's abuses!

why does responsible, proactive, conservative action
at the expense of Industry or Commercialism/Capitalism
with regard to our Natural Resources, limited as they are, have
to be equated to "pie in the sky" pipe dreams??

Doug, does science or does it not work in reverse? Can numbers or can they not be manipulated to support both sides of the equation? and surely, a reduction from both sides of the killing zones would serve the species well, no? 10 years was a little over the top, but if ya shoot for ten and get five, then i would say that we've made an impact on behalf of the ACMenhaden.

further, why the HELL cain't Omega Protein farm soy? there is no STINKING way you will ever convince me that the disappearance of the Great Silver Balls of the turn of the century and even up until the mid 50's of bunker has not had a prolifically detrimental impact on BOTH~~~ estuaries and stripers!!

their filtering qualities alone coupled with the increases in pollution and a decimation of their numbers from what they were during the "Pre-Purseseinic Era" is unknowable at this time, why? because the menhaden harvesters have been able to haul to their hearts and fatt- arsed wallets content since the early '60's. cease and desist for five years and even YOU would be amazed at the result, i'd wager!

and to answer your querry, Charles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,YES!! wholeheartedly i would switch to a different fish, should the numbers and reasonable science support a moratorium on our beloved prey. might have to go pelagic on yer butts. i'd figure some way to get my angling fixes fixed!!! i am very hopeful we won't screw this one up again. however, maintaining the staus quo seems futile at best.

[MAKAI]

Bassdawg.
Once you go pelagic. You get the bug bad.
Everything else becomes trout fishing.
Your money just disappears,
Sad it is.
Once the spring Bass bite is over we switch gears till the leaves are off the trees.
It's like chasing 18 yr old girls all over again.
Umm.. Sort of.

[animal]

Originally Posted by afterhours

amen.

Don,you know,as well as I that a large portion of the former comms you spoke of,were comms when there weren't any real catch limits,and the size limit was 16 inches.
I think we all know that recs kill far more stripers than comms,so gamefish status alone(without further limitations)is pointless.
Reread Dougs(Sashamy)posts.He's usually pretty spot on,and I agree with what he said here.

[afterhours]

bobby- i was a commercial fisherman for years and i believe i was part of the problem in the 80's. and today i have a vested interest in the condition of this fishery. i don't need scientists or bioligists to tell me the state of this fishery- i have eyes and have been a fisherman for 50 yrs and i remember history. gamefish status is only part of the solution i would like to see. i would also like to see a coastwide standard limit of 1 fish at 36". i believe those two measures would go a long way to restoring the fishery- yes i believe it is in need of restoration.

[Nebe]

Yup yup.... Sounds good to me.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[likwid]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Last June we had probably our most productive trip to Cutthunk in the seven or so years we have been going over there. Was it the moon, the tides, or what? I figure I have run or been on twelve trips to Cuttyhunk with S-B members, with an average of 14 guys on each trip. That's a lot of wood, eels and tin that we've pitched into the night. What did we do different this time? Beats me. Personally, I had four good fish back to back in a half hour period around 2AM. And then nada. They just happened to be there when I was casting as I was making my way back to the club.

The answer to Cuttyhunk is living there or luck.
And thats that.

[JFigliuolo]

Reading the pages here, I hate to even post... but wth?

1. The hypocricy(sp) of charter boat skippers saying there's a problem with charters killing so many fish is astounding. Do you even read your posts?

2. The SF bill was a fish grab. Pure and simple.

3. Rec's kill way too many fish. We (on this site) travel in a small circle as we release way more than we kill. Such is not the case with most rec's I'd wager (see point 1).

4. Cutting the limit from 2-28 to 1 - 28 would NOT cut the kill by 50% as I'd wager most surf casters keep 1 at a time. It's a PIA lugging 2 fish around. It's a step in the right direction.

5. Fish are following the bait offshore, but is this new? or have a population of fish always done this? Is this population growing or are the coastal fish just dwindling.

6. Saying the fish are there... you just have to WORK harder for them is actually saying that there ARE less fish. (What part of this don't you get) I highly doubt that coastal populations are congrating into fewer bigger schools.

7. People are greedy and people suck.

[JohnR]

JFig for President

In a nutshell, everyone needs to take less, release more, and protect the bait.

Meanwhile we run around in circles.

[dannyplug1]

I agree with don there should be a 36" limit one fish coast wise. I dont care how the figures are manipulated by special intersts, I know the bass population is going down and most likley crashing in the next five years. I have seen the number of small fish go down every year. Meanwhile I have not taken a fish in a very long time. I have quit fishing live bait and am extreemly carefull with the fish I release. Then I go to westport when the commercial bass season opens and watch the commercials come back from Cuttyhunk loaded to the gills with large prime breeding fish. Dont ask me to disbelieve my own eyes. In regard tothe mas bill being dead. For now possibly, the special intrests win but the mass of the people eventually forces the issue in a democracy. Make stripers a game fish!

[seabuggy]

Some of the posters are right, the fish are here for everyone. No one group has the inside track on the taking of SB. Commercial guys say they have an historic right to a commercial season. They abide by the rules set forth and take thier 1.1 m pounds. The stocks are better for this effort. The consumer that buys and eats this fish have rights too. Without a commercial quota the markets would not have product. Recreational guys that I know personally are also getting thier share, If they know how. I do however, have a problem with the writers of the proposed bill banning the sale of SB. If anyone in thier right mind ever read this study, they would disregard it immediatly. It speaks to job loss and losses to tourism and such. It is the biggest farce related to fishing that I have ever seen. You do not have to go beyond the sponsers list to see what is going on. The Mass DMF is doing thier job, Let them do it and leave the fish to all groups as it is now.