We just lost 50% of the access to the Cape Cod Canal

[Rob Rockcrawler]

MikeCC,
Thanks for taking the time and talking to these folks and educating them and us about the situation.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Gary

Ever seen what a well placed sledge hammer does to rail?.......

theres an old saying....

give me a big enough LEVER and i can move the world

ya get a bar so heavy it takes two men to carry it
with shoulder straps.

the third guy ( the watcher) carries a fulcrum

Jesse James those Bastids

[JohnR]

Not that we would advocate any damage to actual rail components as that would be a safety issue.

Hope this gets resolved. A little moonage would certainly make the national news. Though some might think the train runs through P-Town or something.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by mikecc

Copy of the trespass order
here is their phone # tell them to F O

Customer Service Direct Line:
(508) 291-0685

Why did the guy even identify himself to the railroad employee? Only has to do that with a police officer. It is somewhat different crossing or walking along tracks used all the time, such as the T train tracks, as opposed to the trash train tracks. The law applies the same but certainly it should't be applied the same. Maybe they have to issue a cople of these pieces of paper to show the insurance company that covers their liability policy they are doing their job.

However, that being said, and Backbeach referred to this, tresspassing or trackwalking is an arrestable misdomeanor under three different statutes in this commonwealth.

Just reread LIKWID's post, am I now to understand this happened in Wareham by M & D's and not on the canal tracks?

[big jay]

It's amazing what you can find out about someone on google (especially when they have a unique name).

I guess someone that drives a cupholder boat like a 45' SeaRay isn't going to care much about surf-fisherman.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Not that we would advocate any damage to actual rail components as that would be a safety issue.

OHHHH No of course not BOSS man

but those IDIOTS better quickly realize that they are like a BANK
with all of their assets just laying out on open ground
and it's virtually impossible to protect it all REAL FAST.

[gone fishin]

The threat of any kind will not help alleviate the problem. All we need is a hothead to take any action against the railroad and we will find all crossings closed to the public and no access to that side of the ditch.
Mike has the right idea and should keep a clear levelheaded line of communication open.

[bart]

what he said

[Saltheart]

I think everyone should push the issue and just fish the cape side. I promise not to fish in your spots on the mainland side. I promise!

Anyway , hopefully this whole thing just fades away. Like the old saying goes..... let dogs who lie sleep...or something like that.

[bogey]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

My daughter had to go to court as a teen for trespassing on railroad tracks. It's a big deal. Was going to go on her adult record, but our lawyer worked the strings. I still get really pissed when I think of it. The cop who wrote her up lived around the corner. You can guess what I think of that POS.
The world is being taken away from the common man, everything is illegal these days and everything belongs to corporations. We need to protet this, 5-6 hundred people need to cross the tracks on film for the 6 o'clock news with their middle digits raised. Help me Hank!!

Iwouldn't worry as much about corporations as I would about politicions and lawyers

[stiff tip]

STOP IT STOP IT !!!!!! THIS HAS GONE TOOOO FAR.... THINK ABOUT IT, THE EGRESS WAYS TO THE CANAL ARE EVERYWHERE,AND THE POPULARITY OF CANAL FISHING BOTH DAY N NIGHT IS CONSTENT ???????? OK. UNLESS U R FU*KING WITH THERE STUFF, I BET ITS OK TO CROSS THERE TRACKS..SO "LET THE SLEEPING DOG LIE"IVE BEEN DOING IT FOR 30YRS LETS NOT CHANGE THINGS YET..BTW ,THE R/R #^&#^&#^&#^& WENT WAY OVER ,ITS A POWER KICK (IMO)......CHEW ON THAT AWILE...... UR ALL GETTING CRAZY WAITING FOR THE FISH.........DAVE..........

[Joe]

I guarantee the cops are going to be more than willing to cite people - and good luck mouthing off to a third-shift rookie all by your lonesome. Fishing licenses, trespass threats.....And I say to myself, what a wonderful world...

[Pt.JudeJoe]

[Clogston29]

Originally Posted by stiff tip

STOP IT STOP IT !!!!!! THIS HAS GONE TOOOO FAR.... THINK ABOUT IT, THE EGRESS WAYS TO THE CANAL ARE EVERYWHERE,AND THE POPULARITY OF CANAL FISHING BOTH DAY N NIGHT IS CONSTENT ???????? OK. UNLESS U R FU*KING WITH THERE STUFF, I BET ITS OK TO CROSS THERE TRACKS..SO "LET THE SLEEPING DOG LIE"IVE BEEN DOING IT FOR 30YRS LETS NOT CHANGE THINGS YET..BTW ,THE R/R #^&#^&#^&#^& WENT WAY OVER ,ITS A POWER KICK (IMO)......CHEW ON THAT AWILE...... UR ALL GETTING CRAZY WAITING FOR THE FISH.........DAVE..........

really the best advise. can't see you winning access here. best to let sleeping dogs lie. the rail's insurance company will never let them knowingly allow trespassing or, worse still, endurse people cutting across the tracks. if they ever extend passenger rail down there, forget about. they'll be fences and razor wire everywhere.

and for those saying, "let them try to enforce it" and the like, its really not that hard to do - take away parking, tow cars, and make a few arrests. its basically like saying "let them try to enforce speed limits", you throw a few cops out there and its basically done.

they also have the argument that there is legal, safe access to the canal at each end and an access road running between the two. they are not denying access to the canal, they're just denying easier access.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Clogston29

really the best advise. can't see you winning access here. best to let sleeping dogs lie. the rail's insurance company will never let them knowingly allow trespassing or, worse still, endurse people cutting across the tracks. if they ever extend passenger rail down there, forget about. they'll be fences and razor wire everywhere.

and for those saying, "let them try to enforce it" and the like, its really not that hard to do - take away parking, tow cars, and make a few arrests. its basically like saying "let them try to enforce speed limits", you throw a few cops out there and its basically done.

they also have the argument that there is legal, safe access to the canal at each end and an access road running between the two. they are not denying access to the canal, they're just denying easier access.

Trust me on this---there is nothing more certain than No Parking postings along Sandwich Road if things don't change. All it's going to take is one fisherman getting clipped by a passing car one morning. Once the turn outs are full--as they will inevitably get once the plugging bite hits cell phone/tackle shop/internet hotwires, guys park along the shoulder where there's literally a foot or two between them and cars zipping by at 60 mph. It is inevitable that someone will get killed some day if this keeps up, and that's when you'll lose parking access along the road.

The police department in Bourne doesn't want to break balls. Lots of them fish, including Chief Baldwin. But people force their hands, and they have no choice. They didn't want to issue parking tickets at Savorey Avenue (stone church) last spring, but the residents complained about noisy fisherment waking them up at 4 AM so they had no choice. The railroad has had several things to complain about, including kids playing chicken with the trash train in Monument Beach last year. Just keep things in perspective--this was one guy who the railroad conceded may have gone too far. Use your heads--if a train is approaching, you'll hear it. Don't try to save 45 seconds of fishing time by rushing over the tracks in front of an approaching train--and for God's sake, lose the idiotic idea of some sort of mass protest, or mooning, or whatever. Just let this die, for everyone's sake.

The reason the railroad mentions "legal" access points is because these are considered grade crossings, and there are whistle posts down the track which tell the engineer to sound the horn to warn crossing cars and pedestrians.

[Backbeach Jake]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Trust me on this---there is nothing more certain than No Parking postings along Sandwich Road if things don't change. All it's going to take is one fisherman getting clipped by a passing car one morning. Once the turn outs are full--as they will inevitably get once the plugging bite hits cell phone/tackle shop/internet hotwires, guys park along the shoulder where there's literally a foot or two between them and cars zipping by at 60 mph. It is inevitable that someone will get killed some day if this keeps up, and that's when you'll lose parking access along the road.

The police department in Bourne doesn't want to break balls. Lots of them fish, including Chief Baldwin. But people force their hands, and they have no choice. They didn't want to issue parking tickets at Savorey Avenue (stone church) last spring, but the residents complained about noisy fisherment waking them up at 4 AM so they had no choice. The railroad has had several things to complain about, including kids playing chicken with the trash train in Monument Beach last year. Just keep things in perspective--this was one guy who the railroad conceded may have gone too far. Use your heads--if a train is approaching, you'll hear it. Don't try to save 45 seconds of fishing time by rushing over the tracks in front of an approaching train--and for God's sake, lose the idiotic idea of some sort of mass protest, or mooning, or whatever. Just let this die, for everyone's sake.

The reason the railroad mentions "legal" access points is because these are considered grade crossings, and there are whistle posts down the track which tell the engineer to sound the horn to warn crossing cars and pedestrians.

Again, you're right as again I was joking..

[chuckg]

I would venture that if they ticketed the person in Wareham it was on the tracks in back of M&D, that could be a dangerous spot

[Dave Peros]

Glad to see a little more common sense in some of the posts and a little less emotion - although I am shocked to see some of it coming from someone of stiff tip's ilk!
There is no reason to even suggest vandalism or even some massive protest until more examples appear of the railroad's move towards citing folks for trespassing across their tracks to go fishing.
That said, I do get discouraged every time I hear of more obstacles being placed in the way of folks who fish from shore. Credit should be given to Lou MacKeil for having language written into the saltwater license funds appropriation for a good chunk of the money to go to access issues.
I know it would be a massive and overly expensive undertaking, but I would love to see the colonial ordinance governing waterfront property ownership overturned in the Bay State. If only two states, one of which is Massachusetts, have it on the books, maybe that should tell us something?

[NIB]

Isn't that the crackhead side anyways...
FORE!!

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Dave Peros

I know it would be a massive and overly expensive undertaking, but I would love to see the colonial ordinance governing waterfront property ownership overturned in the Bay State. If only two states, one of which is Massachusetts, have it on the books, maybe that should tell us something?

It would be more expensive than you could imagine, as the Supreme Judicial Court has already ruled that it would be a "taking" of private property for public purposes and require fair compensation to the landowners.

We have the right of passage already for purposes of fishing and waterfowling--what we need is to make more law enforcement types aware of it when they challenge us.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Mike P

We have the right of passage already for purposes of fishing and waterfowling--

what we need is to make more law enforcement types aware of it when they challenge us.

now THAT is interesting !

[Clogston29]

Originally Posted by Mike P

We have the right of passage already for purposes of fishing and waterfowling--what we need is to make more law enforcement types aware of it when they challenge us.

True. I've had to explain the law to the police a couple times and a home owner once. Usually the response from the police has been along the lines of "just get out of here"

[piemma]

Just got to let this thread die. Out of sight, out of mind. There are a lot of other places to get to the Canal without crossing the track if you really want to. The whole mainland side for one.

I realize that this is an infringment on our rights but just let it go away and it will not be a problem. I don't see the railroad, in these uncertain economic times, stationing a crossing police RR guy at every access point.

[Raven]

but at the same time that's the stick your head in the SAND
physcology....
~
So i have to Challenge that "just get out of Here"
and our "Rights" falling on the OFFICER's DEAF ears

and then ask the question

Who has the Authority ? the officer who is supposed to protect and serve

and "ENFORCE " the laws of the constitution.....

or does the citizen have the right to say:
well NO sir , " i am perfectly within my rights to access the Ocean
here...." at the risk of being arrested of course.

or say.... Yes Sir, I will leave under Protest that it is my right
and Guaranteed under the constitional provisions
for me to access the Ocean here.
Then head right to the police station and talk to his Chief
and hear what he has to say about it.

Note to self... purchase a pocket recorder.

[Clogston29]

you do not have a protected right to pass through private property to fish. you have a right to fish within the tidal zone provided that you are able to get to where you are without trespassing. as it applies to this situation, you have the right to fish anywhere along the canal access roads, provided you get there by entering through one of the legal access points.

[piemma]

Raven:
I also agree with your points. Perhaps it's just me getting older that I now choose to pick the battles I can most likely win.
I fish the Canal under cover of darkness, like I fish everywhere else. I figure the possibility of the RR Police catching me crossing the tracks at 2:00 AM are slim indeed. I'll be long gone before the sun is up so I think if I stay in stealth mode I will be OK.

[luds]

Originally Posted by piemma

Raven:
I also agree with your points. Perhaps it's just me getting older that I now choose to pick the battles I can most likely win.
I fish the Canal under cover of darkness, like I fish everywhere else. I figure the possibility of the RR Police catching me crossing the tracks at 2:00 AM are slim indeed. I'll be long gone before the sun is up so I think if I stay in stealth mode I will be OK.

I agree. I like watching a fish crash a pencil as much as anyone but it's amazing how fewer headaches exist when you fish under darkness. The night opens up a world of possibilities and access is significantly less of an issue.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by NIB

Isn't that the crackhead side anyways...

Yes, but up here we call it the "Jersey" side.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Raven

but at the same time that's the stick your head in the SAND
physcology....
~
So i have to Challenge that "just get out of Here"
and our "Rights" falling on the OFFICER's DEAF ears

and then ask the question

Who has the Authority ? the officer who is supposed to protect and serve

and "ENFORCE " the laws of the constitution.....

or does the citizen have the right to say:
well NO sir , " i am perfectly within my rights to access the Ocean
here...." at the risk of being arrested of course.

or say.... Yes Sir, I will leave under Protest that it is my right
and Guaranteed under the constitional provisions
for me to access the Ocean here.
Then head right to the police station and talk to his Chief
and hear what he has to say about it.

Note to self... purchase a pocket recorder.

There is no right to trespass over private property to reach the water---not here, not anywhere. You have to reach the water without crossing anyone's private property. That's the law even in states where the landowner only has title to the high water mark.

For the umpteenth time in this thread--railroad tracks and a number of feet each side of them--are private property, an easement granted to the railroad. They have every legal right to prevent anyone from crossing the tracks, except at a grade crossing across a public thoroughfare.

Telling people not to start fights they can't win, legally, is not putting one's head in the sand. It's called using common sense and not blowing an isolated incident out of proportion The railroad has already said their guy went overboard---what is so %$%$%$%$ing hard to understand about that???

Secondly, it is illegal to secretly record any conversation in Massachusetts without the knowledge of the other people you're speaking to. Playing a secretly recorded tape of one of his officers for the Chief is a sure way to get yourself arrested.

Maybe you bomb throwers should stop handing out bad legal advice and leave it to the lawyers to tell people what their rights are.