Heads up on Limit to Groundfish Charter Boats - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

BasicPatrick · 04-30-2010, 02:35 PM

Just a Heads Up

Fact: At the New England Fisheries Managmeent Council meeting in June the council will consider re-affirming the control date (March 30, 2006) for party/charter fishing vessels. The Council considered doing so at this week's meeting but decided that this should be a specific item on the agenda before taking action.

Opinion: This is probably being done because in the next round of groundfish regulations there will be a move to split the charter boats from the straight recreational anglers and this will require a limited entry program for charter boats. A control date is what is used as the cutoff for those that will and will not retain their permits. It is likley if this moves forward all federal charter boat permits gated after the date will not be renewed.

beamie · 04-30-2010, 05:38 PM

That really doesn't make any sense. It will not reduce the amount of fish taken.

Charter boats compete against each other on land to catch the fisherman that want to pay and go fishing. The constant is the number of people that want to go fishing tomorrow. Say it is 200 people this could be spread over 35, 40, 50 or 60 boats. It is still 200 paying costumers.

Limit the amount of fish to be landed. i.e. the current no limit on haddock just blows my mind. Why not 10 like the cod?

MakoMike · 05-05-2010, 12:55 PM

This is being pushed by several owners of charter fishing fleets and has nothing to do with how many fish are caught. It's about limiting the competition for customers.

beamie · 05-05-2010, 01:50 PM

MM,

Yes, now that makes total sense. I wonder of the prices would jump at some point too....less supply of boats for hire.

nightfighter · 05-05-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakoMike

This is being pushed by several owners of charter fishing fleets and has nothing to do with how many fish are caught. It's about limiting the competition for customers.

This stinks of (certain) fishermen screwing with the fishery.... If it's true, I would like to see those names posted publicly..... Limiting the competition,,, what happened to American values?

JohnnyD · 05-05-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightfighter

This stinks of (certain) fishermen screwing with the fishery.... If it's true, I would like to see those names posted publicly..... Limiting the competition,,, what happened to American values?

That's Capitalism for you. It's a shame if this is true, a lot of quality charter guys around.

Raider Ronnie · 05-05-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakoMike

This is being pushed by several owners of charter fishing fleets and has nothing to do with how many fish are caught. It's about limiting the competition for customers.

I don't know where you are getting that info but I can tell you the Ma. Charter fleet is not happy about our extended closure , let alone closed at all.
It's not fair boats from R.I. & N.Y can fish their waters all winter while we are closed (with different size & bag limits) then bring their boats up to Ma. when we open and take our fish also ! not to mention those clients who would usually come up to Ma. during winter/spring months are now going down to their boats

big jay · 05-05-2010, 08:36 PM

I think Patrick's opinion is right on - not sure how I feel about it yet.

Charterboats are strange - not quite commercial, not quite rec. I can see the need for a separate category in alot of fisheries, but I also think that splitting up the user groups is how they are all weakend in the long run.

MMike is not all wrong about who's driving it - but its not so much a matter of eliminating compeition as a way to regain access. I've heard all sorts of debates on this one - and the names do not belong on the internet.

Any way you slice it - its a tough situation. And overall I think its ridiculous that rec/charter boats are fighting for access when the whole place is covered with freaking gillnets.

big jay · 05-05-2010, 08:37 PM

Patrick - which way are you going on this?

beamie · 05-06-2010, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jay

I think Patrick's opinion is right on - not sure how I feel about it yet.

Charterboats are strange - not quite commercial, not quite rec. I can see the need for a separate category in alot of fisheries, but I also think that splitting up the user groups is how they are all weakend in the long run.

MMike is not all wrong about who's driving it - but its not so much a matter of eliminating compeition as a way to regain access. I've heard all sorts of debates on this one - and the names do not belong on the internet.

Any way you slice it - its a tough situation. And overall I think its ridiculous that rec/charter boats are fighting for access when the whole place is covered with freaking gillnets.

Jay, Great Post, it is right on.

That being said I do think overall it would be a bad thing to split the fully rec and CHB catagories. I agree to regain access, however if a decision was made to let CHB start fishing fishing 3/15 and recs 4/15 that wouild not be right. The more ways the numbers are split they will get smaller. You are right charter boats can seem strange be they really are totally recreational in nature. The paying rec fishermen are just chartering a boat for 12 hours to take them to the fishing grounds. No sale (commercial) of fish. Only thing sold is boat time (charter). No different when 6 guys, non charter, go fishing and chip in for gas.

I just get discouraged when I read things like this because for myself working on and off as both mate or captain for various boats over the years and eventually hoping to use my own boat offshore (when it stretches out a bit)....that could disappear soon.

big jay · 05-06-2010, 07:27 AM

The screwed up thing about this is nmfs had been encouraging commercial fisherman to become charter boats -- they had a program a couple of years ago where they would pay for the captains class for commercial groundfisherman.
All this did was dilute the current charter fleet - and then they took back the days when they were able to fish - double screwing the existing guys, and then messing up the "new" charter skippers they created.

big jay · 05-06-2010, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamie

I just get discouraged when I read things like this because for myself working on and off as both mate or captain for various boats over the years and eventually hoping to use my own boat offshore (when it stretches out a bit)....that could as disappear soon.

That's the part that stinks about limited access and control dates.
There needs to be some sort of balance - just not sure how to best make it work.

MakoMike · 05-07-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

I don't know where you are getting that info but I can tell you the Ma. Charter fleet is not happy about our extended closure , let alone closed at all.
It's not fair boats from R.I. & N.Y can fish their waters all winter while we are closed (with different size & bag limits) then bring their boats up to Ma. when we open and take our fish also ! not to mention those clients who would usually come up to Ma. during winter/spring months are now going down to their boats

I'm getting my info from my sitting on the NEFMC recreational advisory Panel for th last five years or so. I was at the meetings when this was discussed. FWIW the advisory panel never made a formal recommendation on it.

As far as the different rules for the GOM vs SNE, that's just the natural outcome of how the stock is treated. Nothing stopping you guys from moving south of the cape for the winter. This past winter lots of boats from further west moved to Montauk and Pt. Jude to get in on the action. Several boats from up your way also moved to RI for the winter.