I am SOTS: MAKE STRIPED BASS A GAMEFISH! - Page 4 - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

piemma · 06-19-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Sure would love to know where they derive the "released and died" numbers from????? They must have followed the fish or later took a survey!

Again.....the switch from 2 fish to 1 fish would be significant. Lets all agree on that...K?

And I already mentioned the size should go up...34...36 inches....either works for me!

How long will we minority keep saying 1, 34 or 1, 36? No one wants to listen.

It's like this nitwit on the "other board". Said he fished from April to Nov and keeps 4 fish a WEEK. I was going to point out that amounts to 108 fish that he keeps. WHAT THE *&%$@# DO YOU NEED TO KILL 108 BASS FOR???? I haven't killed 108 bass in 10 years.

But what's the use! With that kind of mentality, anything I said would have started one of these *&%$^throwing wars. "IT's my right blah, blah, blah....."

BigFish · 06-19-2010, 01:55 PM

4 fish a week is insane!!! Love to know how much of that fish is being eaten and how much is actually tossed in the dumpster?!?!?!

Sea Dangles · 06-19-2010, 04:28 PM

George loves numbers and analysis,but if there were a 20-25% reduction it would be substantial bordering on monumental. Push the size limit to 34" and the numbers increase exponentially.
I still want to know how SK intends to help make it a gamefish.

afterhours · 06-19-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I still want to know how SK intends to help make it a gamefish.

by eliminating the opposition

????? seriously..... i believe in gamefish status in state waters. chris -that is the $64,000 question

. gamefish status in state waters, no comm, and 1 fish @36" could'nt help but improve the fishery in a large way.

BigFish · 06-19-2010, 04:37 PM

Don which state??

afterhours · 06-19-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Don which state??

all states big feller...

SAUERKRAUT · 06-19-2010, 05:37 PM

I still want to know how SK intends to help make it a gamefish.[/QUOTE]

Don't know. No idea how the State of FL managed to do do this with snook, but it was an all out war down there. Maybe all of the recreational sector should fish commercial, early fill the Almighty Quota, and work to once again CRASH the fishery in the hope that we get a better deal from the next time...if there would be a next time. Otherwise, I will follow my heart and remain a verbal advocate for Gamefish status for this public resource. Bonds.

BigFish · 06-19-2010, 06:07 PM

Big

On

Not

Depleting

Stripers!

Way to go Alan!! Bonds to you!

stripermaineiac · 06-19-2010, 09:30 PM

Well a thought for everyone. Why is it ok for all the commercial inshore netters to be netting at night now so no one can see all the dead fish they throw back in.What all the sportfisherman and commercial rod n reelers catch in a season these people kill in a week in unrecorded bycatch. Squid,bunker,scup and just about any other type of fish that stripers feed on that is netted has a huge bycatch that is one of the things many of us see when we see all those stripers floating on the water in the morning.Might be an idea to make night netting illegal to put these actions back in the public eye. add this to all the other ideas and the stripers may have a chance.Ron

Crafty Angler · 06-20-2010, 07:29 AM

"In the sixties [1860's] many clubs were formed at Newport, West Island, Block Island and Montauk, and at Cuttyhunk and Pasque Islands where the waters were chummed with menhaden and where the members fished from rocks and from iron stands built on the rocky points that jut out into the sea.

I have known my father, the late George Griswold, who was a keen fisherman, to bring home before breakfast, four fish that would weigh over fifty pounds each, but that was in the sixties at New London where no bass are now to be found.

Last season (1914) I heard of but three large fish taken in the waters off the Elizabeth Islands. They weighed 51, 52 and 73 pounds. The summer before but one large fish was reported.

The fishing clubs have been abandoned, the stands have been destroyed by the action of the sea and the waters are no longer chummed or fished, for the large striped bass have become a tradition of the past.

This has been caused by excessive net fishing, for the bass, being a migratory fish, has been and is still netted along the full length of the coast both going and coming as well as when in southern waters and the result has been fatal."

Frank Gray Griswold
Some Fish and Some Fishing, 1921

A little history

ProfessorM · 06-20-2010, 10:33 AM

Otherwise, I will follow my heart and remain a verbal advocate for Gamefish status for this public resource. Bonds.[/QUOTE]

And I truly respect that, even if I am on the other side of the fence at this time. It is not easy taking the hard route and it is good to have an opposite opinion to anything we do in life as then you get to see both sides of an issue and sometimes after reviewing your path you may change your mind. But without an opposite opinion you may never know what you are missing. The bottom line is everyone cares about this fish just some differently than others. I am concerned and I just hope the side I am on at this time is not wrong, and I end up living to regret my decision.

afterhours · 06-20-2010, 11:28 AM

Paul, i for one fished comm. leading up to the decline of the 80's. i (now) regret having a negitive effect on the fishery. sure i have a vested interest in this fishery running a plug business, but my main interest comes as a fisherman first and foremost. some of the older guys have this flashback back in the day.....when a 20# made your day. it's not rocket science- less killed on both sides equal more fish swimming.

Sea Dangles · 06-21-2010, 06:44 AM

It can get past the point of absurd at some point.Maybe some of these so called advocates will stop fishing altogether at some point for fear of the impact on the fishery due to the so called release mortality rate.This is probably the only way to make certain you are having are not making a negative impact on the fishery.

ProfessorM · 06-21-2010, 07:17 AM

that is true Chris, that is one way to put your money where your mouth is. I think that a lot of the people that want it a game fish luv to fish way too much to ever be able to go that far, I know I could never do that but personally, like I said above, I think it is good to have people like Alan to keep us thinking about what we are doing with a resource that is there for everyone to enjoy, even if you are against his vision. It will be impossible to please all the people all the time but it is not a bad thing to try.

stripermaineiac · 06-21-2010, 12:09 PM

Well I've tagged an release a lot of fish and have seen a fes floaters from time to time but one sure reality is if the release mortality was just half what it is listed as you'd see hundreds of dead fish littering the shore line after every blitz. seems funny that with all the blitzes that have been witnessed just by those of us on this site there would have been loads of info and complaints on it about the release kill off. I've landed many fish that had hardware still hanging out of their mouths. Commercial release ie by-catch is just plain dead. netted fish don't swim away.I've worked on a gill netter as a kid. always thought it was such a waste.
Never have bought into the release mortality. especially after watching a Bassmasters show from time to time. No one is gonna ever convince me that the striped bass are that fragile and we're so poor at how we release the fish to swim another day. Ron

MakoMike · 06-21-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Sure would love to know where they derive the "released and died" numbers from????? They must have followed the fish or later took a survey!

They come from several studies done in VA and MD. They caught and released the fish into a giant pen, so they could watch them. Most of the mortality comes days after the release, which is why you don't see dead fish floating around after a blitz.

afterhours · 06-21-2010, 01:35 PM

on that mortality rate....how were they caught? bait, fly, plug....

numbskull · 06-21-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afterhours

on that mortality rate....how were they caught? bait, fly, plug....

They have tested bait and plugs. Gut hooked bait is the worse. But what really kills fish is temperature. As I recall (always iffy these days) when water temps are in the 70's almost half the fish you release probably die.

Watched a guy in the canal land a 25-30ish pound fish on a plug. He lipped that fish (plug and all) and unhooked it without ever taking it out of the water, then spent a few minutes reviving it even though it looked fresh enough to swim sooner. I was duly impressed.

Here is some stuff from another thread:

Here is a link with some data http://www.acuteangling.com/Reference/C&RMortality.html

Here is a study (FW Striped Bass) that mentions temp effects. There is a better one somewhere that I can't find.
http://web.vims.edu/GreyLit/MDNR/ftm016?svr=www

Sea Dangles · 06-21-2010, 07:45 PM

At RP a number of years ago I witnessed an angler filet a fish without removing it from the water.I can't stand watching a floater go by,what a waste.
George,as a result of that study do you curtail your fishing when temps climb to such levels?

stripermaineiac · 06-21-2010, 08:15 PM

Yup I remember the study. Temps were over 90 the whole time and they didn't do a break down on how the fish were caught ie plugs,worms,mackeral and so on. still don't buy the results as over the yrs I've seen way too many fish revive and swim away from really being beat on and survive. Yes there is a mortality rate but one or 2 local studies definitly don't tell the story. Bob showed that more times than anyone. To be valid it might be an idea to do a few more say like by state and season to get the story straight. They die they float. Biology. viscara releases gasses inside the fish till a bird or other fish punctures the body so it will sink.A blitz or a lot of local fishing during a migration will show a load of floaters if the figures were even close.Netted fish however ie by-catch all die.So why do we allow the netters to ply their trade at night when no one can see the damage done. It will take a lot of different things to fix it. we did a good job on the 80's helping to bring the fish back. The problems all started with the holy price tag. as long as a buck is attached well it won't be long till the 80's will be relived. But what the heck those of us that went through the moratoriums don't know what we're talking about.I keep mabe a dozen fish a yr. Short of puttin the rods up not much more that I can do.But i will try to steer things to a course that will help the fish. Ron

numbskull · 06-21-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

.
George,as a result of that study do you curtail your fishing when temps climb to such levels?

Nope. Too selfish for that. I prefer to delude myself that they all make it. I do try to get them back into the water fast. I had a 34lb fish (which is big for me) go belly up and get swept away from me a rough August night 2 years ago after I weighed, photographed, then thought I'd revived it. Sort of ruined most of the pride I had in catching it.

Sea Dangles · 06-22-2010, 06:30 AM

I ditched the scale a couple years ago,it really serves no purpose in the surf.I still remember scrambling to get the tin fired up to chase a large fish that was released after an unsuccessful revival.It became people food instead of fish food.

Any study done where fish are "released" into a pen is skewed imo.Fish don't do well in pens.

MikeToole · 06-22-2010, 12:11 PM

I don't disagree with the 7% rate because of the way many people handle the fish. For people who really care and are careful 1% may be right but for others 50% would be closer. Go down to the popular beaches during the day and watch them drag fish up the beach and keep it out of the water for 20 minutes while they show everyone, then just throw it in. Even if it can swim away in the weaken state something will often eat it. Watch how they free line bait on the bottom just asking for a gut hook.

If your schoolie fishing with barbed treble hooks your going to kill more fish then single hook with the barb crushed. Watch how some people will just grab the plug and rip the hooks out rather than pulling them out the way they went in. You damage their mouth they will have trouble feeding. Too many people just don't care or think the fish can live through anything.

SAUERKRAUT · 06-22-2010, 07:34 PM

No...the State DNR Enforcement never called me back regarding my complaint about the illegal striped bass commerce I witnessed. Instead, I heard more indirectly from the mother of one of our local DNR officers. Mom told me that a "Jamaican showed up at the back door of the restaurant and sold the restaurant the fish". And so I guess that's the end of the story!

All of this bodes well for the upcoming commercial season.

Business as usual.

Eric Roach · 06-23-2010, 06:11 PM

Spots in NH & ME that have held small schoolies since the recovery have been disturbingly quiet the past few years. To catch small fish is notable -- especially in abundance.

Our fall blitzing activity up here has really been minimal the past three seasons...There haven't been enough fish around to drive any widespread, sustained surface feeding.

Conservative measures are needed. Even if exactly what's going on is uncertain, wouldn't taking a conservative stance on striped bass mortality make sense?

One major concern is the Gulf oil spill. With a collapse of that region's fisheries, striped bass will be more valuable than ever. Think it's a tough fight against the $$ now? It'll get worse.

Surf Caster · 06-23-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Roach

Spots in NH & ME that have held small schoolies since the recovery have been disturbingly quiet the past few years. To catch small fish is notable -- especially in abundance.

Our fall blitzing activity up here has really been minimal the past three seasons...There haven't been enough fish around to drive any widespread, sustained surface feeding.

Conservative measures are needed. Even if exactly what's going on is uncertain, wouldn't taking a conservative stance on striped bass mortality make sense?

One major concern is the Gulf oil spill. With a collapse of that region's fisheries, striped bass will be more valuable than ever. Think it's a tough fight against the $$ now? It'll get worse.

taking the conservative route would make way to much sense.... so you can count that out...

unfortunately, it feels like nothing substantial will be done about this until its too late.

piemma · 06-24-2010, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by numbskull

Nope. Too selfish for that. I prefer to delude myself that they all make it. I do try to get them back into the water fast. I had a 34lb fish (which is big for me) go belly up and get swept away from me a rough August night 2 years ago after I weighed, photographed, then thought I'd revived it. Sort of ruined most of the pride I had in catching it.

Back in 92 I was fishing at the Second Rip with a bunch of commercial rod and reel guys. I had given up my commercial license so I was catching and releasing. I caught a fish that was about 25# and after a long fight landed it, revived it (or so I thought) and released it.
Well the fish washed up on the beach about 10 minutes later and the late and great George Calzone grabbed the fish and threw it in his fish tote. I told him that I had released that fish earlier and it swam away. He said, "Paulie, in the Summer (this was at the beginning of July, maybe the 5th or 6th) most of the released fish don't survive because of the lactic acid build up and the water temps." I believe he was correct.

JohnR · 06-24-2010, 07:12 AM

I think the reallocation of Gamefish status is wrong. That the goal is reduction of pressure on the fish regardless of usergroup. But the longer this fishery remains in disarray the less confident I am that it can be managed WITH commercial interests.

At minimum we need to see a rollback of total catch, rec & comm, by a third. Or better, go back to limits of a few years ago and then cut back by a third.

On the rec side this will likely mean 1 fish max per day minimum 34 (I can live with that) and for example Mass comm going back to 800K pounds off 2006 and then taking off a third.

The way this is rolling, those commercial fishing better hope for just reduced allocation rather than no allocation. Recs best push for reduced too.

JohnnyD · 06-24-2010, 01:59 PM

What's the point in even having limits if they aren't going to be enforced??

At the canal on Friday night, a group of 6 asians show up on the east end and separate into two groups - one group fished at the base of the jetty and the other a little ways west of there. There were a bunch of 14-20" schoolies around and every fish they brought in went into the cooler, another group of non-english speakers were doing the same.

I'm disgusted and walk away so that I don't have to witness it any more. Get about a half mile away and see a Bourne Cop car driving down the canal. I flag him down and mention what's going on - two to three groups, all keeping obviously small fish and their exact locations. His reply, "alright thanks." Then I proceeded to watch him drive right past all of them, turn around and drive past them all again.

Slipknot · 06-24-2010, 02:06 PM

program this EPO number into your phone and hopefully someone will be down if you call

1-800-632-8075

what the heck is SOTS?