Alberto Knot - Wind-on Leaders - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

MotoXcowboy · 06-14-2012, 09:57 PM

2 rods down now. I am going back to short leaders. I was running long 6-8ft wind-on leader when I fish around rocky areas. The knot has chewed up the ceramic going through a few guides. The guides have started fraying my line. Glad both rods have lifetime warranties.

John R. nice seeing you and meeting your son today.

1dozenraw · 06-14-2012, 10:15 PM

This is on a conventional rig I assume?

MotoXcowboy · 06-14-2012, 10:25 PM

Spinners
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1dozenraw · 06-14-2012, 10:32 PM

I know some will disagree, but from what I have seen and heard using a leader long enough so that the knot has to pass through the guides on a spinning rig has some definite drawbacks... particularly the ones you mention. On a conventional, not a problem. However, on a spinning rod, because of the guide layout and the strain as the line passes through the guides as the is unloading during the cast (and the rod is bent under load on retrieve) will eventually cause the problems you mention.

MotoXcowboy · 06-14-2012, 10:38 PM

yeah, I learned the hard way. Id like to get a conventional set-up someday.
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Nebe · 06-14-2012, 10:55 PM

1dozen is correct
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RIROCKHOUND · 06-15-2012, 05:33 AM

Fish mono around the rocks...
20lb Back Country
+ swivel
+ 5ft of 50lb (if plugging) mono (60lb w/ eels, 80lb when chunking)

problem solved

numbskull · 06-15-2012, 05:45 AM

Learn to tie an FG knot, position the knot between the collector and the first guide, and you will do fine.

As for a knot damaging a ceramic guide, that seems very unlikely to me unless it knocks out a ring. I suspect the ring failed from something else. Can you post a close up picture of a damaged ring?

MotoXcowboy · 06-15-2012, 08:02 AM

Bryan, I dont fish braid. I think most of my go to set ups have 15 big country and 50 floro. I give your recommendations a try. Thanks
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Nebe · 06-15-2012, 08:10 AM

The only reason to use a big shock leader IMO is for braid. It helps prevent ripping hooks out of fish and acts as a shock absorber of sorts. If your using mono, I'd just up it to 20 lb test and then use a swivel tied 3 foot leader of 40 lb flouro.
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MotoXcowboy · 06-15-2012, 08:10 AM

Numbskull, I thought the 1st time it happened to a tip guide it may have been a fluke. Then the same thing happened to my 3rd & 4th guide from top of my star rod. Don't have pics, the first rod tip that went ended in the trash. Star rod at QL getting set back for new guides. It looks like one guide has a hairline crack in the ceramic. The other bad guides looked like someone ran a file through them a few times. I think the 3rd guide had 3 sets of small grooves.
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Nebe · 06-15-2012, 08:22 AM

Mono is thicker than braid. My guess is your knot was too big for the guides.
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MotoXcowboy · 06-15-2012, 08:27 AM

I was using the big shock leader for extra confidence incase fish went into rocks. lost a big one right at the rocks a few years ago because the mono got rubbed and frayed. I'll up it to 20 and run shorter leaders from now on w/ a swivel again
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MotoXcowboy · 06-15-2012, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebe

Mono is thicker than braid. My guess is your knot was too big for the guides.
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Its a pretty small knot.. but I think the wraps turned it into like a file. It would sometime bump the tip going out. But most of the damage was done to 3rd and theres plenty of room for it there
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ReelinRod · 06-15-2012, 08:52 AM

I can't see how a knot would be doing damage to a guide ring and I haven't heard of a quality brand guide ring being grooved by line for 30+ years.

I use spinning tackle with 60lb+ mono shocker throwing 4 and 5 ounce sinkers on 10 and 12lb mono running line out past 680ft and never had a ring damaged from knot impact (I have ripped guides completely off the rod though, when the knot grabs the guide structure).

If you are throwing bucktails or typical surfcasting lures on 10-11ft rods, there is no way you are generating the velocity / energy needed to do damage. Perhaps an already damaged guide could be finished off, but otherwise I don't see it.

ThrowingTimber · 06-15-2012, 10:01 AM

If you're going this route on spinning keep your knot outside of your guides. And use a shorter leader. That's it that's all.

Also doubt a mono/flouro knot cracked you guide(s). Make sure you haven't dropped the rod in question. Rod dropped on pavement = damaged guide(s).
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new jack · 06-15-2012, 08:32 PM

You try a Bimini knot? Super small and compact. I get very little Frey.
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Jackbass · 06-19-2012, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new jack

You try a Bimini knot? Super small and compact. I get very little Frey.
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How are you attaching the leader to the bimini? I am curious because I used to fish bimini's always with mono but that was right on the running line? Is that why you are talking about?
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JFigliuolo · 06-19-2012, 06:37 AM

Here's a set-up I've come to really like. Braid -> Red Phillipsknot 30 lb mono -> double Uni 50 lb leader.

The 30 lb mono transition is 10-15 feet long, to a 5' leader. The red phillips knot on the small mono passes through the guides like butter. The double uni stays outside the guides.
The set up gives me all the casting advantages of braid, and a good deal of abrasion resistance in the rocks with 20' of mono.

If an extra knot scares you, then don't do it. But if you are confident in your knot skills, give it a try. If I need to retie, it's fast enough on the rocks at night.

JFigliuolo · 06-19-2012, 06:39 AM

Oh... and about the knot cracking guides.... Not believing it. I CAN see how a knot that has some sand embedded in it COULD rough a guide up though.

MotoXcowboy · 06-19-2012, 08:49 AM

It was a hairline crack, very hard to see. I noticed it after inspecting all my guides after I saw the ruts in the 3rd guide. Maybe it happened in transport or when I put the rod down on the rocks, it was never dropped. barely used. mostly on rocks too. not sand.

The grooves are definitly from the knot. I wish I had a picture to show you guys. The grooves where faint but enough to fray 50# flouro and made a weird rubbing noise when I reeled in.

I tie a 7x7wrap alberto and they always come out nice and small. Its a very small knot. I was shocked it ruined the ceramic.

MotoXcowboy · 06-19-2012, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackbass

How are you attaching the leader to the bimini? I am curious because I used to fish bimini's always with mono but that was right on the running line? Is that why you are talking about?
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I am wondering the same thing.. When I make bimini's I always end up with a large loop at the end. I can't see how that would pass through the guides easy. I think the alberto knot is smaller than the bimini