Ocean closed

[spence]

Well, if the point of a National Park is to preserve, how can you let people run roughshod over areas without proper staffing? Not to mention the liability issues...

I'm also suspect the context of that quote has been lost.

-spence

[Slipknot]

what quote Spence?


there is no defense for this, the government is throwing a hissy fit and taking it out on the citizens of the USA simple as that. They apparently are not qualified for the job. Makes me wonder how many in Congress can actually balance their own personal budget let alone the countries'.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

what quote Spence?


there is no defense for this, the government is throwing a hissy fit and taking it out on the citizens of the USA simple as that. They apparently are not qualified for the job. Makes me wonder how many in Congress can actually balance their own personal budget let alone the countries'.

The anonymous quote that was to make it seem this was punitive. I don't buy it...this talking point that Obama's trying to inflict pain on the people to gain support is pretty silly.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

The anonymous quote that was to make it seem this was punitive. I don't buy it...this talking point that Obama's trying to inflict pain on the people to gain support is pretty silly.

-spence

It would be as silly as closing the Whitehouse to tours and then going to Hawaii for vacation.
Never happen!!!
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[DZ]

One of the funniest lines I've heard about these closures:

"If we would turn the southern border into a National Park we would take care of our illegal immigration problem."

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, if the point of a National Park is to preserve, how can you let people run roughshod over areas without proper staffing? Not to mention the liability issues...

I'm also suspect the context of that quote has been lost.

-spence

So the liberal left thinks the "people" will run roughshod..... interesting. And to have to resort to pointing out liability? Please don't insult the American public with that thinking and diversionary talk. These actions are not justified, and have been taken to inflict pain and inconvenience on many while trying to force the other side to bend.

Originally Posted by spence

The anonymous quote that was to make it seem this was punitive. I don't buy it...this talking point that Obama's trying to inflict pain on the people to gain support is pretty silly.

-spence

He's dug his heels in and has said he will not negotiate. That is NOT the type of leader this country has counted on for 230 plus years. His trump card did not bring a conciliatory offer from the other side and now it's a game of who will blink first. Americans who voted for him to be in this office get what they deserve, an incompetent figurehead. Not a leader who can surround himself with qualified advisors who are much more qualified than he is....

The Republicans get equal blame in my book as well. They all suck. But the POTUS is the ONE who is supposed to be the dealmaker, armtwister, and negotiator, on behalf of the PEOPLE! This is about him and his agenda, and that is why he has chosen to inflict this pain on the nation as a whole. It gives me the same sick feeling I felt the night he won his first election.....

[nightfighter]

I only wish we could furlough the college professors who have been filling the youth with all their leftist thinking. Let them feel some of the pain....

[lamigsb1]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

I only wish we could furlough the college professors who have been filling the youth with all their leftist thinking. Let them feel some of the pain....

Funny, I learned to be a leftist while serving my country under a Republican Commander in Chief. As for college. My economics, civics and calc professors, were republucian and not afraid to voice political opinion to students. My sociology professor claimed to be a libertarian. The only 2 dems were composition and literature.
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

He's dug his heels in and has said he will not negotiate. That is NOT the type of leader this country has counted on for 230 plus years. His trump card did not bring a conciliatory offer from the other side and now it's a game of who will blink first. Americans who voted for him to be in this office get what they deserve, an incompetent figurehead...

Actually, I believe the House and Senate dems have tried to get the budget talks into conference 20 times over the past six months in efforts to negotiate.

Instead the GOP killed all attempts up until last week after pushing the House bill through, so they can use the shutdown as leverage.

Right now, it looks like there's enough support get a clean bill through and end the standoff, yet Bohner won't put it to the floor.

Who's the problem again?
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[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by spence

Actually, I believe the House and Senate dems have tried to get the budget talks into conference 20 times over the past six months in efforts to negotiate.

Instead the GOP killed all attempts up until last week after pushing the House bill through, so they can use the shutdown as leverage.

Right now, it looks like there's enough support get a clean bill through and end the standoff, yet Bohner won't put it to the floor.

Who's the problem again?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

They all are the problem. Boehner doesn't represent me, and has actually alienated me almost to the point that Newt did.... Both sides at fault. But one side is in the leadership position. Wishing there were leaders who would sit down and get it done, as Tip and Reagan used to do behind closed doors....despite their polar differences. Two leaders, who could lead. And their parties would follow their lead.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Two leaders, who could lead. And their parties would follow their lead.

How would that go? Ok, Boehner, tea party wants to connect this budget to the unrelated affordable care act, we'll negotiate. Assault weapon ban for 1 year delay of Obamacare? This is a stupid and unprecedented case of extortion. The government may never work again if this is how the parties deal with these issues going forward. As of Wednesday there were 5 republican congressmen in Philadelphia area districts alone calling for a vote on a clean bill. They can't even get their own party to allow a vote. The only reason the government is shutdown is because Boehner lost his sack and as a result the National seashores get closed. This is the main forum, right

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, if the point of a National Park is to preserve, how can you let people run roughshod over areas without proper staffing? Not to mention the liability issues...

I'm also suspect the context of that quote has been lost.

-spence

. It amazes me how little faith you have in people if the government isn't controlling them
I wonder how many of Michelle's 22 staffers have been furloughed.
Next time you talk to Barry could you ask that question for me I assume you two have pillow talk
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[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, if the point of a National Park is to preserve, how can you let people run roughshod over areas without proper staffing?


-spence

the same enforcement rangers can see to that

easy as that

no need to disrupt peoples lives

[spence]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

the same enforcement rangers can see to that

easy as that

no need to disrupt peoples lives

They've furloughed a lot of park employees, I think over 300 for the Washington parks alone. Who's going to collect the trash? Respond to incidents? Preserve the park? Contrary to Buck's lack of faith, people are people.

Hey, the whole thing is silly but the shutdown is the problem.

I believe the same thing happened at the parks under Clinton and Bush 41.

-spence

[DZ]

Originally Posted by spence

Who's going to collect the trash? Respond to incidents? Preserve the park?
-spence

Collect the trash when the workers get back, respond to incidents with the security guards that are already there keeping everyone out, no one needs to preserve "open air" in the park, people will understand if the grass is not mowed. Again we all pay property taxes on these open air parks - they belong to us to use anytime.

DZ

[Ian]

Originally Posted by DZ

Collect the trash when the workers get back, respond to incidents with the security guards that are already there keeping everyone out
DZ

First one I disagree with, but the second is what makes this whole issue so confusing. We shut down the government, but are going to do the following:

Still pay Congress (who is willfully shutting it down in the first place)
Backfill pay for all furloughed employees (seriously??????!!!!!!!!)
Pay for rangers and guards to keep people out of federal parks/land/etc. (in some cases employing people where there weren't guards before)

At least if you are going to "shut down" the government, stop paying EVERYONE so we actually save a little bit of money while the dooshbags in Congress get over their bitch&moan-fest. Don't pick and choose who will and won't get paid.

How in the name of sanity is this a shutdown? Its just theater and BS at the expense of our international image and financial standing as a country.... Up yours Congress... up yours indeed

I apologize if anyone on here is a federal employee who is furloughed, but I don't think their should be back-pay for that... I've been furlouged many times in my life and the only "back pay" I got came from the unemployment office.

[FishermanTim]

Here's an interesting question:

What if we had a large contingency of kayak and boating anglers decide to land on one of these national park beaches? Would we be told that you can't land there because the shore is closed?

Since they only people who will truly be affected by this shutdown are the taxpayers that cannot use the facilities that they PAID to use, why can't we claim time and money lost due to these closures on our taxes come April?
I mean the furloughed (yeah, that's a cute word for paid vacation workers) employees are going to receive their full back pay, so they weren't inconvenienced. The idiotic politicians wouldn't dare cut their own salaries, so they weren't affected.

That leaves US, the public.

If I came across a sign blocking me from my favorite waterway, it wouldn't be there for long.

It is definitely time to remove these ploitical sh*t-turds from office and find people that can and will do what they are supposed to do FOR us and not TO us!!!!!

[spence]

Originally Posted by DZ

Collect the trash when the workers get back, respond to incidents with the security guards that are already there keeping everyone out, no one needs to preserve "open air" in the park, people will understand if the grass is not mowed. Again we all pay property taxes on these open air parks - they belong to us to use anytime.

DZ

I think the law creates a lot of paranoia as it prohibits individuals for working unless specifically called for. Using the on-duty park rangers to provide emergency service for people willingly admitted could be considered crossing the line.

Hey, a lot of this certainly falls into the absurd, but that's kind of the nature of it. For some reason nobody has sought to change the laws after previous shut-downs.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by DZ

Collect the trash when the workers get back, respond to incidents with the security guards that are already there keeping everyone out, no one needs to preserve "open air" in the park, people will understand if the grass is not mowed. Again we all pay property taxes on these open air parks - they belong to us to use anytime.
DZ

Bingo. When I looked at my paystub last Friday, I saw the same federal income tax deduction that I saw previously. They're not taking any less money.

Spence has a point (God forgive me!) in that some parks, which require close supervision, have to be shut down. When I was at Katmai Nat'l Park in Alaska, we were bear viewing, and the rangers were needed to make sure no one got too close to the bears. I can see why that place would have to be shut down.

But in other situations, the government is allocating more resources to keeping people out of the parks, than it would spend if the parks were open normally. And in the case of the Grand Canyon, the state of Arizona offered to pick up the federal tab to keep the park open during the shutdown. The feds said no thanks.

The only conceivable reason? Obama wants to make this as painful as possible, to generate anger against the GOP. How's that for a guy who claimed to be a post-partisan President.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But in other situations, the government is allocating more resources to keeping people out of the parks, than it would spend if the parks were open normally. And in the case of the Grand Canyon, the state of Arizona offered to pick up the federal tab to keep the park open during the shutdown. The feds said no thanks.

The only conceivable reason? Obama wants to make this as painful as possible, to generate anger against the GOP. How's that for a guy who claimed to be a post-partisan President.

The other conceivable reason is that it would likely be a violation of federal law.

I'm not sure just because parks are owned by the Government means the taxpayer can access at any time. Parks have rules...

-spence