Ocean closed

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, if the point of a National Park is to preserve, how can you let people run roughshod over areas without proper staffing?


-spence

the same enforcement rangers can see to that

easy as that

no need to disrupt peoples lives

[spence]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

the same enforcement rangers can see to that

easy as that

no need to disrupt peoples lives

They've furloughed a lot of park employees, I think over 300 for the Washington parks alone. Who's going to collect the trash? Respond to incidents? Preserve the park? Contrary to Buck's lack of faith, people are people.

Hey, the whole thing is silly but the shutdown is the problem.

I believe the same thing happened at the parks under Clinton and Bush 41.

-spence

[DZ]

Originally Posted by spence

Who's going to collect the trash? Respond to incidents? Preserve the park?
-spence

Collect the trash when the workers get back, respond to incidents with the security guards that are already there keeping everyone out, no one needs to preserve "open air" in the park, people will understand if the grass is not mowed. Again we all pay property taxes on these open air parks - they belong to us to use anytime.

DZ

[Ian]

Originally Posted by DZ

Collect the trash when the workers get back, respond to incidents with the security guards that are already there keeping everyone out
DZ

First one I disagree with, but the second is what makes this whole issue so confusing. We shut down the government, but are going to do the following:

Still pay Congress (who is willfully shutting it down in the first place)
Backfill pay for all furloughed employees (seriously??????!!!!!!!!)
Pay for rangers and guards to keep people out of federal parks/land/etc. (in some cases employing people where there weren't guards before)

At least if you are going to "shut down" the government, stop paying EVERYONE so we actually save a little bit of money while the dooshbags in Congress get over their bitch&moan-fest. Don't pick and choose who will and won't get paid.

How in the name of sanity is this a shutdown? Its just theater and BS at the expense of our international image and financial standing as a country.... Up yours Congress... up yours indeed

I apologize if anyone on here is a federal employee who is furloughed, but I don't think their should be back-pay for that... I've been furlouged many times in my life and the only "back pay" I got came from the unemployment office.

[FishermanTim]

Here's an interesting question:

What if we had a large contingency of kayak and boating anglers decide to land on one of these national park beaches? Would we be told that you can't land there because the shore is closed?

Since they only people who will truly be affected by this shutdown are the taxpayers that cannot use the facilities that they PAID to use, why can't we claim time and money lost due to these closures on our taxes come April?
I mean the furloughed (yeah, that's a cute word for paid vacation workers) employees are going to receive their full back pay, so they weren't inconvenienced. The idiotic politicians wouldn't dare cut their own salaries, so they weren't affected.

That leaves US, the public.

If I came across a sign blocking me from my favorite waterway, it wouldn't be there for long.

It is definitely time to remove these ploitical sh*t-turds from office and find people that can and will do what they are supposed to do FOR us and not TO us!!!!!

[spence]

Originally Posted by DZ

Collect the trash when the workers get back, respond to incidents with the security guards that are already there keeping everyone out, no one needs to preserve "open air" in the park, people will understand if the grass is not mowed. Again we all pay property taxes on these open air parks - they belong to us to use anytime.

DZ

I think the law creates a lot of paranoia as it prohibits individuals for working unless specifically called for. Using the on-duty park rangers to provide emergency service for people willingly admitted could be considered crossing the line.

Hey, a lot of this certainly falls into the absurd, but that's kind of the nature of it. For some reason nobody has sought to change the laws after previous shut-downs.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by DZ

Collect the trash when the workers get back, respond to incidents with the security guards that are already there keeping everyone out, no one needs to preserve "open air" in the park, people will understand if the grass is not mowed. Again we all pay property taxes on these open air parks - they belong to us to use anytime.
DZ

Bingo. When I looked at my paystub last Friday, I saw the same federal income tax deduction that I saw previously. They're not taking any less money.

Spence has a point (God forgive me!) in that some parks, which require close supervision, have to be shut down. When I was at Katmai Nat'l Park in Alaska, we were bear viewing, and the rangers were needed to make sure no one got too close to the bears. I can see why that place would have to be shut down.

But in other situations, the government is allocating more resources to keeping people out of the parks, than it would spend if the parks were open normally. And in the case of the Grand Canyon, the state of Arizona offered to pick up the federal tab to keep the park open during the shutdown. The feds said no thanks.

The only conceivable reason? Obama wants to make this as painful as possible, to generate anger against the GOP. How's that for a guy who claimed to be a post-partisan President.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But in other situations, the government is allocating more resources to keeping people out of the parks, than it would spend if the parks were open normally. And in the case of the Grand Canyon, the state of Arizona offered to pick up the federal tab to keep the park open during the shutdown. The feds said no thanks.

The only conceivable reason? Obama wants to make this as painful as possible, to generate anger against the GOP. How's that for a guy who claimed to be a post-partisan President.

The other conceivable reason is that it would likely be a violation of federal law.

I'm not sure just because parks are owned by the Government means the taxpayer can access at any time. Parks have rules...

-spence