Sunday morning post?

[stripermaineiac]

Yup mahogany sure does look a lot closer to squid when natural.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by stripermaineiac

Yup mahogany sure does look a lot closer to squid when natural.

That was the logic. Added big silver eyes near the tail.
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[Linesider82]

Finally turning some wood! Until recently, we hadn't had cold weather so I just kept fishing. Hard finding time to make noise with a 14 month old, when he's up I want to be with him and when he's napping, I want to do the same.

My Winter plans are:
8" Darters
BM Jr's & some variations in lip / wood
various needles
Gary2 Slims
(if time provides maybe some oddball plugs)

Sunday afternoon I turned some bodies


And a while back I was able to finish some, awaiting a sealer bath

[Linesider82]

Paul and/or George,

On your AYC darters are you adding weight? Also, what length darter is your cutoff for not using AYC? Or, if you are using it for any length darter, more specifically on the larger side (7"+), would you add weight to counter the plug's buoyancy? I'm giving this a shot but would appreciate your thoughts and experiences
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[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Linesider82

Paul and/or George,

On your AYC darters are you adding weight? Also, what length darter is your cutoff for not using AYC?

I have not used AYC for darters (too allergenic).
I use soft maple and adjust time in the sealer to get the body weight I want.
I have experimented quite a bit with weighting smaller darters.
Even when exactly the same weight don't think they swim as well as their unweighted cousins made of heavier wood. That said, the three hook Gibbs was weighted and fishes well.....which is no surprise considering the genius of the man who developed it.
You also want to be careful thinning the tail of darters.
Insufficient buoyancy in the tail will make the plug more prone to roll.
You usually can't get a darter to run much deeper by making it heavier (they just roll).
If you want deep then you need to fool with the slope and line tie position.

Of final note, classically most darters are about 1/8" thinner at the nose than the belly. When the face is the widest spot they tend to want to swim more than dart (not that that is bad).

[ProfessorM]

I can speak for myself. No weight in mine. If you want more of a sinker use birch or maple. I have made them up to 10" out of Ayc. Upper water column darter. The larger darter i make copied after Pichney's large darter i make out of birch no weight.
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[Linesider82]

Ok cool, thank you.

I'll give it a shot, it'll be nice to have a large darter in shallower water and that fast recovery after bumping a rock.
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[eskimo]

I tried adding a small tail weight to one (Hydro'd after epoxying in the weight) and had better results than any belly weighted version but still went unweighted.

[Linesider82]

Originally Posted by eskimo

I tried adding a small tail weight to one (Hydro'd after epoxying in the weight) and had better results than any belly weighted version but still went unweighted.

Frank you did this on an ayc darter but still deviced to go without the weight? What about the weighted darter made you give up on the plug?
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[eskimo]

The tail on the darters I made were really tapered so while they swam fine once the plug started going they seemed to hang up right when I started to retrieve them. I'm sure if the tail was bit thicker it would work but really they cast fine without any lead.

If you're using maple and thicker profile like you have a above I'd go without weight.

[Linesider82]

Ok cool. I did a few AYC today no weight and put 2 belly weights in 2 other AYC darters equally spaced from center to see what happens.

2 more I set the cutting point in more just to turn a thinner profile.

I fished the maple darters all last year and was happy, so this is a cool test to see what happens with a different wood
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[eskimo]

I'm sure they'll work for you. Options are always good
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[ProfessorM]

I agree I often make a few out of a few different species for different sink rates and situations once I have it set up to do my regular run. Sometimes they suck sometimes you get surprised for hardly much effort since it is already set up to go.

[eskimo]

Didn't take these out for swim but rather a sink. Took a needle I had good success with last year and made them a bit thicker so they'd have the same sink rate but with a 6X 3/0 in front and 6/0 in back.

[eskimo]

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by eskimo

Didn't take these out for swim but rather a sink. Took a needle I had good success with last year and made them a bit thicker so they'd have the same sink rate but with a 6X 3/0 in front and 6/0 in back.

Where did you get the eyes from, look nice.
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[eskimo]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Where did you get the eyes from, look nice.
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.

They're from Lisa and Ed's eyes, Frank. Cheap and have plenty of sizes and colors. I buy the clear eyes too and occasionally paint them what I what (I painted the bone eyes on the bone pencil).
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[Linesider82]

Now I'm pumped. I can't wait to throw my duds or studs into the drink.

Still waiting on George to weigh in... Or does he put weights in his darters? I think he likes cutting cross grain on the slopes and lip, no?
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[Linesider82]

Good god. Frank that's the one. That's the plug you will find your Bertha
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[eskimo]

Not sure about a lip but I messed with a darter needle thing. Doesn't seem to dart if it sinks and I never done well on needles that float so they sit in a box.

[eskimo]

Some slim darters I finished last week and some others I wired up tonight.

[ProfessorM]

All beauties. You going to make me beg. Got no Nanook of the North darters
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[stripermaineiac]

nice looking stuff. big girls love datas

[ProfessorM]

I like floating needles. 6x because you are fishing rocks? On a beach I don't think that would be necessary.
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[eskimo]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

I like floating needles. 6x because you are fishing rocks? On a beach I don't think that would be necessary.
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The Nanook darters work on ice too.

The latest 4x hooks from VMC seemed to just crumpled all last season. Started using the 6x on most at least the belly hooks on anything I was fishing.
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[ProfessorM]

Just curious. Thanks
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[JLH]

Took some maple Donnys for a swim today. They weigh in at around 3.2oz with no added weight and sit with the entire nose of the plug slightly subsurface and the water line about mid way at the tail. No hook on the rear of them when I tested. They swam with a lot of side to side action but didn't seem to dig for the bottom as much as I had expected. I didn't play with tuning the line tie or lips (pikie 3 and lefty high slot) yet.

Has anyone fished and original that could can give me some idea of how they swam?
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[eskimo]

I swam a maple junior (I think it was weighted) with a lefty 2 high slot and although it swam deeper it didn't tag bottom where I swim plugs and its only 5'.

I bet a maple rattler slope head would go deep.

[JLH]

Originally Posted by eskimo

I swam a maple junior (I think it was weighted) with a lefty 2 high slot and although it swam deeper it didn't tag bottom where I swim plugs and its only 5'.

I bet a maple rattler slope head would go deep.

Thanks maybe I'll have to cut a slope head on one and see how it swims.

I got some info from someone who fishes the originals pretty often and he said they probably get down around 8' or maybe more. Not sure if these will get that deep or not. I still need to swim them in some open water.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by JLH

Thanks maybe I'll have to cut a slope head on one and see how it swims.

I got some info from someone who fishes the originals pretty often and he said they probably get down around 8' or maybe more. Not sure if these will get that deep or not. I still need to swim them in some open water.

The original large maple I x-rayed has a 5/16 x 1/4" wt 3 3/8" from the nose. It weighed 3.55 oz rigged but WITHOUT hooks
I would not, however, focus on building exactly to these dimensions.
Maple varies a lot in weight. To start I would float your plug rigged with hooks in water and, using a rubber band to hold on different weights in different locations, weight it to float with only its back just proud of the water (the buoyancy in saltwater will be greater).

I have built a number of maples in both sizes and fished them but without much success. If you are trying to get deep the conrad is a better option (I think).

Neither the conrad or the maple are great in current because of their wide wag (which increases resistance and pulls the plug up). You might try a lefty2 high slot lip on the bigger maple body (+/- adding a slope to the head) if you want to stay stable in current. I've not done this but I have had success doing so with the large pine body and I think Musso may have actually made some special pines this way (just a guess based on a story I heard about a special pine he built).