NC bathroom law

[Sea Dangles]

Another thread that has jokers doing their best to describe and define the ugly transformation our Country has taken under the guidance of the current administration. To me it is a joke that we have to discuss this foolishness. Bruce Jenner goes from Olympic hero to reality tv hero and we,as a country, sacrifice our values to accomadate the flake. It is no wonder Trump is doing so well with the liberal whiners that have been bred into society setting the pace,anything is possible.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Well if I commit a crime, I think I'm gonna feel more comfortable as a female And therefore would feel more comfortable in a female prison . Just saying
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

like I thought, never called any one a coward if you see fear residing in various definitions cowardice thats on you..

Right, you didn't use the word "coward." But, whether you meant that or not, your use of fear could certainly imply that. And fear residing in various definitions of cowardice is not on me, it is on actual, legitimate, definitions of fear and cowardice. But that is mostly an aside. As usual, you avoided rebutting most of, and the important part of my post.

I clearly defined the differences between Cowardice and fear as I see it

Right . . . clearly as you see it. But not clear in respect to how both words are defined in different contexts. And not clear on how the two words are united rather than different. Fear is the predominant emotion in cowardice.

And Fear, outside its dwelling in cowardice, can be solicitous, or even beautifully awesome:

Full Definition of fear per Webster:
a (1) : an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger

b (1) : an instance of this emotion (2) : a state marked by this emotion

2: anxious concern : solicitude

3: profound reverence and awe especially toward God

4: reason for alarm : danger

Your use of "fear" had elements of definitions (1) and (4) but not clearly so or inappropriately so. And these definitions of fear are directly related to cowardice, being the reason for it. The other two definitions have no connection to cowardice nor your use of the word "fear."

... and how I apply it

At best, your application was biased, derogatory, or too loose to convey any definite meaning--as is, quite often the case in "interpretation," personal opinion, or incorrect or improper application.

[Sea Dangles]

Spence has confused offspring just from observing Daddy.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

I've been talking to the wife about possibly retiring down in NC. Been down there a couple of times the past year and really liked it down there.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[basswipe]

Remember this scene from Kindergarten Cop?

[Slipknot]

Here is an article that seems to be about having an open mind enough to want to learn more. Try to read the whole thing if you have a closed mind, but if your too close minded, you may not get it all.

https://baptistnews.com/2016/05/13/s...Ft89w.facebook

Seven things I’m learning about transgender persons
OPINIONMARK WINGFIELD | MAY 13, 2016

WingfieldI don’t know much about transgender issues, but I’m trying to learn.

How about you? How much do you really know about this subject beyond all the screaming headlines and concerns about who goes to the bathroom where?

The truth is that I don’t know any transgender persons — at least I don’t think I do. But with the help of a pediatrician friend and a geneticist friend, I’m listening and trying to learn. This is hard, though, because understanding the transgender experience seems so far outside what I have ever contemplated before. And the more I learn, the more theological questions I face as well. This is hard, even for a pastor.

Here’s some of what I’m learning from my friends who have experience as medical professionals dealing with real people and real families:

1. Even though LGBT gets lumped together in one tagline, the T is quite different than the LG and B. “Lesbian,” “gay” and “bisexual” describe sexual orientation. “Transgender” describes gender identity. These are not the same thing. Sexual orientation is about whom we feel an attraction to and want to mate with; gender identity is about whether we identify as male or female.

2. What you see is not always what you get. For the vast majority of humanity, the presence of male or female genitalia corresponds to whether a person is male or female. What you see is what you are. But for a small part of humanity (something less than 1 percent), the visible parts and the inner identity do not line up. For example, it is possible to be born with male genitalia but female chromosomes or vice versa. And now brain research has demonstrated that it also is possible to be born with female genitalia, female chromosomes but a male brain. Most of us hit the jackpot upon birth with all three factors lining up like cherries on a slot machine: Our anatomy, chromosomes and brain cells all correspond as either male or female. But some people are born with variations in one or two of these indicators.

3. Stuff happens at birth that most of us never know. It’s not an everyday occurrence but it’s also not infrequent that babies are born with ambiguous or incomplete sexual anatomy. In the past, surgeons often made the decision about whether this child would be a boy or a girl, based on what was the easiest surgical fix. Today, much more thought is given to these life-changing decisions.

4. Transgender persons are not “transvestites.” Far too many of us make this mix-up, in part because the words sound similar and we have no real knowledge of either. Cross-dressers, identified in slang as “transvestites,” are people (typically men) who are happy with their gender but derive pleasure from occasionally dressing like the opposite gender. Cross-dressing is about something other than gender identity.

5. Transgender persons are not pedophiles. The typical profile of a pedophile is an adult male who identifies as heterosexual and most likely even is married. There is zero statistical evidence to link transgender persons to pedophilia.

6. Transgender persons hate all the attention they’re getting. The typical transgender person wants desperately not to attract attention. All this publicity and talk of bathroom habits is highly disconcerting to people who have spent their lives trying not to stand out or become the center of attention.

7. Transgender persons are the product of nature much more than nurture. Debate the origins of homosexuality if you’d like and what role nature vs. nurture plays. But for those who are transgender, nature undeniably plays a primary role. According to medical science, chromosomal variances occur within moments of conception, and anatomical development happens within the nine months in the womb. There is no nature vs. nurture argument, except in cases of brain development, which is an emerging field of study.

This last point in particular raises the largest of theological questions. If Christians really believe every person is created in the image of God, how can we damn a baby who comes from the womb with gender dysphoria? My pediatrician friend puts it this way: “We must believe that even if some people got a lower dose of a chromosome, or an enzyme, or a hormonal effect, that does not mean that they got a lower dose of God’s image.”

I don’t know much about transgender issues, but I’m trying to learn — in part because I want to understand the way God has made us. For me, this is a theological quest as much as a biological inquiry or a political cause. How about you?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

This last point in particular raises the largest of theological questions. If Christians really believe every person is created in the image of God, how can we damn a baby who comes from the womb with gender dysphoria? My pediatrician friend puts it this way: “We must believe that even if some people got a lower dose of a chromosome, or an enzyme, or a hormonal effect, that does not mean that they got a lower dose of God’s image.”

Who the heck is damning a baby? If I say "those born with a wee-wee, use the mens room", that is tantamount to condemning babies? This is what liberals do. Instead of responding to what a conservative is saying, they respond to something (evil sounding) that no one ever said. And that's why we are talking about Donald Trump right now, because people are sick of that tactic.

Where in your article does it say, how we prevent true predators from using liberal bathroom policies, to gain access to the ladies room? What's to stop Willie Horton from saying "I am transgender, now please excuse me while I follow your 12 year-old daughter into the ladies room"?

How come no one addresses that? Because that's almost all that matters here. Spence tried to say that states with open bathroom access have seen no spike in these crimes. But (1) he provided no data to support that, and (2) this is a brand-new thing, so obviously we haven't seen the effects yet, and (3) common sense tells me that you cannot open up the ladies room to trannys, without making it easier for perverts to also get in., Are we going to make all men pass a polygraph test before they go into the ladies room, to make sure they are a tranny? Unless we are doing that, how can this idiotic policy not endanger all women?

[Slipknot]

It doesn't that and I never said it did
No one is condemning babies, that is just your over reaction. I didn't write it.
I get what you are saying about the tactic
It doesn't talk about how to prevent that and the legislatures who write these laws are the ones who should be the ones to cover all bases, that is their jobs. I suggest you write your legislatures and not on a fishing forum political forum.
People besides you do address that

How about in NC , are you supposed to come to the bathroom with your birth certificate to show you were born what it says on the door?

I am not a liberal Jim, but I know intolerance when I see it

If women are afraid of Willie Horton going in their bathroom and being threatened, I am pretty sure some law allowing transgendered to use it does not allow predators to commit crimes, so again, address the issue with your legislature, obviously the people in NC must have since they got something done to cause all this fuss over a bathroom. I suggest they carry mace or pepper spray. There are lots of sickos out there.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

It doesn't that and I never said it did
No one is condemning babies, that is just your over reaction. I didn't write it.
I get what you are saying about the tactic
It doesn't talk about how to prevent that and the legislatures who write these laws are the ones who should be the ones to cover all bases, that is their jobs. I suggest you write your legislatures and not on a fishing forum political forum.
People besides you do address that

How about in NC , are you supposed to come to the bathroom with your birth certificate to show you were born what it says on the door?

I am not a liberal Jim, but I know intolerance when I see it

If women are afraid of Willie Horton going in their bathroom and being threatened, I am pretty sure some law allowing transgendered to use it does not allow predators to commit crimes, so again, address the issue with your legislature, obviously the people in NC must have since they got something done to cause all this fuss over a bathroom. I suggest they carry mace or pepper spray. There are lots of sickos out there.

"No one is condemning babies, that is just your over reaction. I didn't write it."

Here's what I was responding to..."how can we damn a baby who comes from the womb with gender dysphoria?"

"It doesn't talk about how to prevent that and the legislatures who write these laws are the ones who should be the ones to cover all bases, that is their jobs. "

IT CANNOT BE PREVENTED. Unfortunately, the predators don't walk around wearing signs. Therefore there is no conceivable way to differentiate between (1) a true transgender, and (2) a predator who claims to be transgender, just to get easier access to the ladies room. You cannot grasp that? Really?

"How about in NC , are you supposed to come to the bathroom with your birth certificate to show you were born what it says on the door?"

God. we all know what sex we were born (most of us at least). So if we make it illegal for men to use the ladies room (shocking, I know), fewer will do it. It doesn't stop all predators from going into the ladies room, but it makes it harder.

"I am not a liberal Jim, but I know intolerance when I see it"

Apparently not, because it's not intolerant. Slipknot, if I said I was a bird instead of a human being (which is no more or less incorrect than if I said I was a woman), does that mean I can poop on your windshield? If your answer is "no", does that make you intolerant? Not every single human impulse needs to be celebrated.

"I am pretty sure some law allowing transgendered to use it does not allow predators to commit crimes"

You are refusing to concede the obvious - that the liberal policy would make it easier for a pervert to walk in there. It doesn't allow the crime, but it sure makes it easier.

"obviously the people in NC must have since they got something done"

Correct. And that's called democracy. But Obama only likes democracy when it works for him, so he is violating the constitution (which gives the federal government exactly ZERO authority to regulate gender identity issues) and threaten the citizens of NC with forfeiture of federal funds. THAT is called fascism.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Here is an article that seems to be about having an open mind enough to want to learn more. Try to read the whole thing if you have a closed mind, but if your too close minded, you may not get it all.

https://baptistnews.com/2016/05/13/s...Ft89w.facebook

Seven things I’m learning about transgender persons
OPINIONMARK WINGFIELD | MAY 13, 2016

WingfieldI don’t know much about transgender issues, but I’m trying to learn.

How about you? How much do you really know about this subject beyond all the screaming headlines and concerns about who goes to the bathroom where?

The truth is that I don’t know any transgender persons — at least I don’t think I do. But with the help of a pediatrician friend and a geneticist friend, I’m listening and trying to learn. This is hard, though, because understanding the transgender experience seems so far outside what I have ever contemplated before. And the more I learn, the more theological questions I face as well. This is hard, even for a pastor.

Here’s some of what I’m learning from my friends who have experience as medical professionals dealing with real people and real families:

1. Even though LGBT gets lumped together in one tagline, the T is quite different than the LG and B. “Lesbian,” “gay” and “bisexual” describe sexual orientation. “Transgender” describes gender identity. These are not the same thing. Sexual orientation is about whom we feel an attraction to and want to mate with; gender identity is about whether we identify as male or female.

2. What you see is not always what you get. For the vast majority of humanity, the presence of male or female genitalia corresponds to whether a person is male or female. What you see is what you are. But for a small part of humanity (something less than 1 percent), the visible parts and the inner identity do not line up. For example, it is possible to be born with male genitalia but female chromosomes or vice versa. And now brain research has demonstrated that it also is possible to be born with female genitalia, female chromosomes but a male brain. Most of us hit the jackpot upon birth with all three factors lining up like cherries on a slot machine: Our anatomy, chromosomes and brain cells all correspond as either male or female. But some people are born with variations in one or two of these indicators.

3. Stuff happens at birth that most of us never know. It’s not an everyday occurrence but it’s also not infrequent that babies are born with ambiguous or incomplete sexual anatomy. In the past, surgeons often made the decision about whether this child would be a boy or a girl, based on what was the easiest surgical fix. Today, much more thought is given to these life-changing decisions.

4. Transgender persons are not “transvestites.” Far too many of us make this mix-up, in part because the words sound similar and we have no real knowledge of either. Cross-dressers, identified in slang as “transvestites,” are people (typically men) who are happy with their gender but derive pleasure from occasionally dressing like the opposite gender. Cross-dressing is about something other than gender identity.

5. Transgender persons are not pedophiles. The typical profile of a pedophile is an adult male who identifies as heterosexual and most likely even is married. There is zero statistical evidence to link transgender persons to pedophilia.

6. Transgender persons hate all the attention they’re getting. The typical transgender person wants desperately not to attract attention. All this publicity and talk of bathroom habits is highly disconcerting to people who have spent their lives trying not to stand out or become the center of attention.

7. Transgender persons are the product of nature much more than nurture. Debate the origins of homosexuality if you’d like and what role nature vs. nurture plays. But for those who are transgender, nature undeniably plays a primary role. According to medical science, chromosomal variances occur within moments of conception, and anatomical development happens within the nine months in the womb. There is no nature vs. nurture argument, except in cases of brain development, which is an emerging field of study.

This last point in particular raises the largest of theological questions. If Christians really believe every person is created in the image of God, how can we damn a baby who comes from the womb with gender dysphoria? My pediatrician friend puts it this way: “We must believe that even if some people got a lower dose of a chromosome, or an enzyme, or a hormonal effect, that does not mean that they got a lower dose of God’s image.”

I don’t know much about transgender issues, but I’m trying to learn — in part because I want to understand the way God has made us. For me, this is a theological quest as much as a biological inquiry or a political cause. How about you?

It's an interesting article, but it doesn't explain the need to change bathroom policies. Bullet point #6 seems to say that transgenders would rather not call attention to where they are going to pee. If the problem is strictly that they just don't feel right about going into a bathroom which is labeled the opposite of what their brain tells them they are, but going to the bathroom they prefer would call unwanted attention to who they are, then they are in a classic catch 22. And making all bathrooms unisex would still not satisfy their need to go to one which corresponds to their gender identification.

If it is the gender labels "men" and "women," or "male" and "female" posted on bathroom doors that causes them anguish, perhaps they can be changed to genital labels "penis" and "vagina." Then all who have the corresponding genitalia could feel comfortable about going to their correctly labeled bathrooms. There would be no discrimination--no matter what race, sexual orientation (heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual), gender identity, religion or atheism, nationality, political persuasion, economic status, and so forth--all who have genitals corresponding to the label on the door would be welcome and equal. They would all have the same required physical characteristic and so would not have to feel they are in a place they don't belong or feel uncomfortable about.

[Slipknot]

no it doesn't explain the legislatures doing what they do, but I thought some might see what some other opinions are about this small percent of the human race.
I have no answer that will please all the people all the time and I said it before, why call attention to it

[scottw]

Originally Posted by detbuch

perhaps they can be changed to genital labels "penis" and "vagina."

clearly the solution

[Fly Rod]

Sorry, but the state of NC by passing a law for school kids to carry pepper spray to use against transgenders in the bathrooms if they feel threatened have gone to far....

[Nebe]

Anyone else find it ironic that conservatives fly off the handle because they think their children are at risk because of this bathroom issue but could not care less about gun control ? And forget about global climate change, which in my opinion is a serious issue that our children's children are going to have to pay the piper for.
But heaven forbid a transgender has to take a dump in public.
Talk about mental illness.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Anyone else find it ironic that conservatives fly off the handle because they think their children are at risk because of this bathroom issue but could not care less about gun control ?

You mean like you can't stop the violence as criminals don't follow laws?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

You mean like you can't stop the violence as criminals don't follow laws?

More like You can't prosecute me for being here.....the new law says I can be.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

You mean like you can't stop the violence as criminals don't follow laws?

So can you explain why Chicago is experiencing what it's experiencing? And DC, which basicall bannned handguns, was also a warzone.

I'm no huge fan of guns. But when th empirical evidence is the opposite of what the original spoeculation projected, then the original theory (widespread gun contrrol reduces gun crime) is flawed.

I sense an inconsistency here, Spence. I cannot point to any data that says that liberal bathroom laws result in a spike of crime. And you claim that means my conclusion is flawed.

How come you don't apply that same logic to gun control laws? Obviously you can't point to any data that says that gun crime in Chicago is way down. So unless you are a hypocrite, why aren't you agreeing with th econservative talking point here?

Have fun with that one.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Anyone else find it ironic that conservatives fly off the handle because they think their children are at risk because of this bathroom issue but could not care less about gun control ? And forget about global climate change, which in my opinion is a serious issue that our children's children are going to have to pay the piper for.
But heaven forbid a transgender has to take a dump in public.
Talk about mental illness.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Anyone else find it ironic that conservatives fly off the handle because they think their children are at risk because of this bathroom issue but could not care less about gun control "

Which obviously explains why in Chicago (where they have very strict gun control), no children are ever harmed by guns. Right? Wow...

[The Dad Fisherman]

I think we should remove the words "Men" and "Women" from restroom doors.....since there is so much room for interpretation....

Just label them "Penis" and"Vagina"......now it's completely dependent on an anatomical fact....no more indiscriminate decisions to be made.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

Sure.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

Jim, do you know what a hemaphrodyte is?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Jim, do you know what a hemaphrodyte is?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Not exactly. I know that's not what we are talking about here, not even close.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Not exactly. I know that's not what we are talking about here, not even close.

Might help if he spelled it right.....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Not exactly. I know that's not what we are talking about here, not even close.

See this is the problem with conservative robots.

A "girl" can be born with a penis. A "boy" can be born with ovaries.

These people then have surgery to "identify" with what sex they feel most comfortable.
It's really that simple.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Raider Ronnie]

[QUOTE=Nebe;1100840]See this is the problem with conservative robots.

A "girl" can be born with a penis. A "boy" can be born with ovaries.

Dood.
Please send me some of your weed.
It's obviously some good #^&#^&#^&#^& !
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

See this is the problem with conservative robots.

A "girl" can be born with a penis. A "boy" can be born with ovaries.

These people then have surgery to "identify" with what sex they feel most comfortable.
It's really that simple.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

As I said, that's not what we are talking about here. A transgender can include a person who has male chromosomes and male anatomy, but simply chooses to be a woman.

Do I always have to address your points, without you ever addressing mine? What do you say to a 12 year old girl, who doesn't want to share either a rest room, or a school rocker room, with a boy who chooses to call himself a girl? Does that girl not have any rights?

[buckman]

Can we get back to the Democratic Party self imploding and Hillary rapidly dropping in the polls 😃
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

I'd say the GOP has imploded a lot more seriously than the Democratic Party
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I'd say the GOP has imploded a lot more seriously than the Democratic Party
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

that's hilarious