Cyberwar: How Russian Hackers and Trolls Helped Elect a President What We Don't, Can'

[The Dad Fisherman]

The Russians have been meddling in our elections for decades, and its never been "OK"

This isn't new

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

The Russians have been meddling in our elections for decades, and its never been "OK"

This isn't new

They are getting better at it and better voting machines will not do a thing.
An airtight case, she acknowledges, may never be possible. In the introduction to her new book, she writes that any case for influence will likely be similar to that in a civil legal trial, “in which the verdict is rendered not with the certainty that e=mc2 but rather based on the preponderance of evidence.” But, she points out, “we do make most of life’s decisions based on less-than-rock-solid, incontrovertible evidence.” In Philadelphia, she noted to me that “we convict people on probabilities rather than absolute certainty, and we’ve executed people based on inferences from available evidence.” She argued that “the standard of proof being demanded” by people claiming it’s impossible to know whether Russia delivered the White House to Trump is “substantially higher than the standard of proof we ordinarily use in our lives.”

Her case is based on a growing body of knowledge about the electronic warfare waged by Russian trolls and hackers—whom she terms “discourse saboteurs”—and on five decades’ worth of academic studies about what kinds of persuasion can influence voters, and under what circumstances. Democracies around the world, she told me, have begun to realize that subverting an election doesn’t require tampering with voting machines. Extensive studies of past campaigns, Jamieson said, have demonstrated that “you can affect people, who then change their decision, and that alters the outcome.” She continued, “I’m not arguing that Russians pulled the voting levers. I’m arguing that they persuaded enough people to either vote a certain way or not vote at all.”

The effect of such manipulations could be momentous in an election as close as the 2016 race, in which Clinton got nearly 2.9 million more votes than Trump, and Trump won the Electoral College only because some eighty thousand votes went his way in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. In two hundred and twenty-four pages of extremely dry prose, with four appendixes of charts and graphs and fifty-four pages of footnotes, Jamieson makes a strong case that, in 2016, “Russian masterminds” pulled off a technological and political coup. Moreover, she concludes, the American media “inadvertently helped them achieve their goals.”

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

They are getting better at it

That's called progress. Progressives should admire that. Meddling is a living breathing thing. History progresses toward the good.

She argued that “the standard of proof being demanded” by people claiming it’s impossible to know whether Russia delivered the White House to Trump is “substantially higher than the standard of proof we ordinarily use” to smear Kavanaugh.


Extensive studies of past campaigns, of American politicians Jamieson said, have demonstrated that “you can affect people, who then change their decision, and that alters the outcome.”

Like Democrats and Republicans do every election and in between.

She continued, “I’m not arguing that Russians pulled the voting levers. I’m arguing that Republicans and Democrats persuaded enough people to either vote a certain way or not vote at all.”

The effect of such manipulations could be momentous in an election

Our pols have figured that out long ago. They use the tactic to subvert our elections all the time.

Moreover, she concludes, the American media “inadvertently helped them achieve their goals.”

No . . . don't tell me . . . I can't believe that fake news colluded with the Russians to actually help Trump. Things are so murky and meddled with in our politics that the poor voter just can't know who or what to believe. Probably we should consult the world about it.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

No . . . don't tell me . . . I can't believe that fake news colluded with the Russians to actually help Trump. Things are so murky and meddled with in our politics that the poor voter just can't know who or what to believe. Probably we should consult the world about it.

Spoken like a russian troll.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Spoken like a russian troll.

Wow. Like a Russian troll. I'm getting good.

BTW, this from the article in your What does the world think thread: "The country giving the U.S. its lowest rating in the survey, and the place where the biggest drop in U.S. favorability has taken place over the past year, is Russia." Must be a Putin tactic. You know, to make the Russian collusion seem a bit less credible. And he and Trump can keep their Bromance under the radar.

[JohnR]

Yep, they did, and they did it on the cheap. Too bad the Dems ran Hillary and Bernie. While they benefited (not as much as DJT) the goal was not to get Trump elected but toi sow division in the USA.

It worked, and their are tons of Useful Idiots running around.

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

The Russians have been meddling in our elections for decades, and its never been "OK"

This isn't new

Hahaha - this is so true. But Dems only raise it now because it wasn't them. I'm sure Russians, Socialist Workers Parties, COMINTERN, and the like had a LOT of influence with the local Chambers of Commerce and Rotary clubs

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by JohnR

It worked, and their are tons of Useful Idiots running around.

Bring back the bounty

[DZ]

If I remember correctly there was an Election Integrity Commission that would have looked into this issue along with other possible voter fraud issues but many states wouldn't participate.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by DZ

If I remember correctly there was an Election Integrity Commission that would have looked into this issue along with other possible voter fraud issues but many states wouldn't participate.

Not the same issue
The Trump administration said that commission would review claims of voter fraud, improper registration, and voter suppression.
This book deals with how public perception was skewed, unfortunately the reviewer injected their own viewpoint into the review. That said there still is interesting information in the review, just like all political discussion it should be taken with at least a grain of salt.