But there's no income inequality

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

come on. what made the
middle
class was the fact that american manufacturing was king. that made the middle class. we
manufactured everything.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Several things that made the middle class are different today.
People were trained and promoted from within.
Before we were married my wife rented an apartment in someone’s Vermont home that was the Head of one of the big brokerage houses on the NYSE
He started in the mailroom and worked his way up.
My father started in aerospace out of HS and worked his way up.
These guys knew what the people below them do and they were not just occupants of a cubicle.
Corporations acted as important members of communities and felt responsible to them and their employees and also their shareholders.
With the prevalence of the MBA
Shareholders have become #1 and employees and communities are just a somewhat necessary evil.
There were also strong unions that stood up for their members and increased wages and benefits which then raised opportunities across the board.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Several things that made the middle class are different today.
People were trained and promoted from within.
Before we were married my wife rented an apartment in someone’s Vermont home that was the Head of one of the big brokerage houses on the NYSE
He started in the mailroom and worked his way up.
My father started in aerospace out of HS and worked his way up.
These guys knew what the people below them do and they were not just occupants of a cubicle.
Corporations acted as important members of communities and felt responsible to them and their employees and also their shareholders.
With the prevalence of the MBA
Shareholders have become #1 and employees and communities are just a somewhat necessary evil.
There were also strong unions that stood up for their members and increased wages and benefits which then raised opportunities across the board.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

“communities are a necessary evil”.

gimme a break. you spout off all these vague generalizations which can’t be proven nor disproven. i worked at aetna, travelers, and the hartford, all
werenterrific
corporate citizens.

you are correct when you say companies are leaner and
more efficient. the downside is reductions in employee perks. what you
conveniently
left out, is that the upside
is lower prices. do you never ship
for the best price? how do you suppose “best price” happens?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

“communities are a necessary evil”.

gimme a break. you spout off all these vague generalizations which can’t be proven nor disproven. i worked at aetna, travelers, and the hartford, all
werenterrific
corporate citizens.

you are correct when you say companies are leaner and
more efficient. the downside is reductions in employee perks. what you
conveniently
left out, is that the upside
is lower prices. do you never ship
for the best price? how do you suppose “best price” happens?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You think corporations on a whole are better citizens than they were 50 years ago based on several large insurance companies
50 years ago minimum wage was $1.60
Trucks cost less? $2318
Medical care costs less? Less than $500 per capita
Housing costs less? $26600 average
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

50 years ago minimum wage was $1.60


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

this is shameful...how was anyone supposed to live on this?

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by scottw

this is shameful...how was anyone supposed to live on this?

A mentor of mine, older guy who I got advice from, once told me,
"Bob, if you ever want to get ahead, 40 hours a week wont cut it"

So I got two minimum wage jobs and doubled my take home pay.
I was also very careful not to spend a penny on anything non essential. I started at minimum wage but moved up through the ranks by applying myself and committing to learn the carpentry trade.

In my view forty hours a week isn't all that much. We sleep more hours away in a week than that. Hard work pays more than just a wage, it builds character and self reliance......is that wrong?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You think corporations on a whole are better citizens than they were 50 years ago based on several large insurance companies
50 years ago minimum wage was $1.60
Trucks cost less? $2318
Medical care costs less? Less than $500 per capita
Housing costs less? $26600 average
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"You think corporations on a whole are better citizens than they were 50 years ago "

No. But I think prices for most consumer goods are far cheaper, relative to average income. Corporations are leaner and more efficient, which means more stingy compensation for employees, but lower prices for consumers.

Pete, if I opened a pizzeria in your town, and I paid my bus boys and cashiers $15 an hour with benefits, a large pie would cost $40. Would you eat there? No.

People want low prices, and then complain when companies do what they have to do, to deliver low prices. You seem like you want low prices and generous employee compensation. I'd like to have a thick head of curly blond hair and washboard abs. But this is the real world, not a fantasy world. You can't have it both ways. Do you understand that prices are a function of costs?

There are a million ways to be comfortably middle class, you just need to be thoughtful, and avoid stupid decisions. Helps to have good parents.

Most goods cost less, relative to average income, not necessarily in absolute dollars. But not big items like housing and healthcare and college.

"wow your towing the party line hard "

Not even close. I said in another thread that we should increase capital gains and dividend tax rates. Pete, I disagree ALL THE TIME with conservatism. What are the biggest items, on which you disagree with liberals? Because I never see you do it.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Several things that made the middle class are different today.
People were trained and promoted from within.
Before we were married my wife rented an apartment in someone’s Vermont home that was the Head of one of the big brokerage houses on the NYSE
He started in the mailroom and worked his way up.
My father started in aerospace out of HS and worked his way up.
These guys knew what the people below them do and they were not just occupants of a cubicle.
Corporations acted as important members of communities and felt responsible to them and their employees and also their shareholders.
With the prevalence of the MBA
Shareholders have become #1 and employees and communities are just a somewhat necessary evil.
There were also strong unions that stood up for their members and increased wages and benefits which then raised opportunities across the board.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Opportunity is still there. My friend is CEO of a fortune 100 company. His CFO is a man who came from India as child with $300 in his pocket. Smart guy,hard worker. Just another success story in the USA.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Opportunity is still there. My friend is CEO of a fortune 100 company. His CFO is a man who came from India as child with $300 in his pocket. Smart guy,hard worker. Just another success story in the USA.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What’s your point
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What’s your point
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He's showing the exception and selling it as the Rule its the conservative mantra everyone is one step from being a millionaire

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

He's showing the exception and selling it as the Rule

the exception, is the willingness to work for what you want. the general rule, is that we are limited by our abilities and our willingness to work. not by the system. sure, some people
do all the right things and have bad luck. that’s not the rule. take a stroll through the projects of hartford, you won’t see a lot of two parent households doing homework together. that breeds poverty. it’s mostly avoidable.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

He's showing the exception and selling it as the Rule its the conservative mantra everyone is one step from being a millionaire

I am not selling it as the rule and I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. Hit the books,live within your means and anything is possible. That’s what I am selling but you can keep looking for pity and your piece of the pie.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I am not selling it as the rule and I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. Hit the books,live within your means and anything is possible. That’s what I am selling but you can keep looking for pity and your piece of the pie.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"I am not selling it as the rule "

Of course not.

"and I have no idea how you came to that conclusion."

Because it's the only way he can make you wrong, if you said something as stupid as "this will always work". When you say that hard work usually pays off, and that making stupid decisions rarely pays off, he cannot respond to that. So in true liberal fashion, he ignores what you actually said, and responds to something that no one has ever said.

You can't talk to people who do this, it's not possible.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What’s your point
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

My point is opportunity is there for those willing to give it a go.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Opportunity is still there. My friend is CEO of a fortune 100 company. His CFO is a man who came from India as child with $300 in his pocket. Smart guy,hard worker. Just another success story in the USA.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

my favorite story...the convenience store near my house is owned by a family from Liberia. mom, dad, two kids. i’d go in on sundays to fill
my tank
and get the sunday paper. the whole family was always in there, kids either working or studying. both kids got free rides to college. they came here with nothing, and their daughter is a doctor. they worked like dogs, and saw education as a gift from
god. he used to tell me, he couldn’t understand why liberals talk about what a crappy racist country this is. every town in the country has a family like that. i think he still works 6 days a week.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device