Debate

[JohnR]

I only watch parts last night but it seemed like CNN went out of their way not to ask questions that would bring (frequent) crazy answers.

BETO is a wuss. Joe looked old.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

BETO is a wuss. Joe looked old.

best and brightest.....quid pro joe is pretty much toast

[JohnR]

I think Joe's teeth were loose again. He was right on this:


"A new study finds that a full-scale single-payer health insurance program, also called "Medicare for All," would cost about $32 trillion over 10 years.

The study from the Urban Institute and the Commonwealth Fund found $32.01 trillion in new federal revenue would be needed to pay for the plan, highlighting the immense cost of a proposal at the center of the health care debate raging in the presidential race.

The study did not analyze the exact proposals from any presidential candidates, but the proposal it examined is roughly similar to the one put forward by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and backed by Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.). "

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...-over-10-years

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I think Joe's teeth were loose again. He was right on this:


"A new study finds that a full-scale single-payer health insurance program, also called "Medicare for All," would cost about $32 trillion over 10 years.

The study from the Urban Institute and the Commonwealth Fund found $32.01 trillion in new federal revenue would be needed to pay for the plan, highlighting the immense cost of a proposal at the center of the health care debate raging in the presidential race.

The study did not analyze the exact proposals from any presidential candidates, but the proposal it examined is roughly similar to the one put forward by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and backed by Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.). "

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...-over-10-years

So the math works and looks like this

In 2017 Americans spent 3.5 trillion on healthcare https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...17.9%20percent.
3.5 x 10 years is 35 trillion assuming zero growth in spending.

In 2017 healthcare grew by 3.9%, so if we are really silly and assume it would grow at roughly half that say 2% the total expenditures after 10 years would be 39 trillion and still not cover 32 million people.

Assuming it would grow at the same rate puts the number at 43.5 trillion and without changes the uninsured population would increase.

Every other developed country has figured out how to control healthcare costs, make sure it is available to all and spend far less.

The only thing either party has been successful in regarding healthcare costs is in increasing them and getting money for campaigns and jobs as lobbyists.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

So the math works and looks like this

In 2017 Americans spent 3.5 trillion on healthcare https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...17.9%20percent.
3.5 x 10 years is 35 trillion assuming zero growth in spending.

In 2017 healthcare grew by 3.9%, so if we are really silly and assume it would grow at roughly half that say 2% the total expenditures after 10 years would be 39 trillion and still not cover 32 million people.

Assuming it would grow at the same rate puts the number at 43.5 trillion and without changes the uninsured population would increase.

Every other developed country has figured out how to control healthcare costs, make sure it is available to all and spend far less.

The only thing either party has been successful in regarding healthcare costs is in increasing them and getting money for campaigns and jobs as lobbyists.

Pete, here is how math works:

They estimate 35 Trillion over the next ten years, which averages to 3.5 trillion per year (assuming constant year dollars).


A L L federal income receipts in 2018 (individual, corp, SocSec, etc) came to about 3.4 trillion.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Pete, here is how math works:

They estimate 35 Trillion over the next ten years, which averages to 3.5 trillion per year (assuming constant year dollars).


A L L federal income receipts in 2018 (individual, corp, SocSec, etc) came to about 3.4 trillion.

Here is how economies work

We spend one way or another either before, after or thru taxes as a nation, 35 trillion with a single payer system or 43.5 trillion with the current conglomeration of stuff that leaves more and more people out of the market each year.

So you think spending over 8 trillion more over ten years is a good deal?

I have a couple of months before I'm on Medicare and out of the private insurance market, I'm glad.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here is how economies work

We spend one way or another either before, after or thru taxes as a nation, 35 trillion with a single payer system or 43.5 trillion with the current conglomeration of stuff that leaves more and more people out of the market each year.

So you think spending over 8 trillion more over ten years is a good deal?

I have a couple of months before I'm on Medicare and out of the private insurance market, I'm glad.

it’s a broken situation, very important, very challenging.

id rather spend my own money on my own behalf, making my own decisions, than have the feds donut for me.

put the word “public” in front of
anything - golf course, park, school, rest room - and it implies something that’s inferior to its private counterpart, very inefficient, dysfunctional, filthy, scary. i have no strong desire for my family’s healthcare to be run that way.

are you retiring in a short time? If so, a sincere best wishes, best of
luck.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Not retiring just getting older
I’d have too much time to waste here if I retired
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

it’s a broken situation, very important, very challenging.

id rather spend my own money on my own behalf, making my own decisions, than have the feds donut for me.

put the word “public” in front of
anything - golf course, park, school, rest room - and it implies something that’s inferior to its private counterpart, very inefficient, dysfunctional, filthy, scary. i have no strong desire for my family’s healthcare to be run that way.

are you retiring in a short time? If so, a sincere best wishes, best of
luck.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Apparently you’re missing out on National Parks, the VA, Bethpage Black, NYS ski areas, plenty of sports stadiums and are lead to believe that no other country has good publicly funded healthcare.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...obile&ie=UTF-8
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Apparently you’re missing out on National Parks, the VA, Bethpage Black, NYS ski areas, plenty of sports stadiums and are lead to believe that no other country has good publicly funded healthcare.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...obile&ie=UTF-8
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The national parks aren't great because of the government. God gets credit for that.

You're right, one great public course means that public is better than private.


"no other country has good publicly funded healthcare"

Oh, I admit that some countries have great public healthcare. They tend to me tiny countries that are mostly homogeneous. So they can't compare to the US.

Can you show me a country of 300 milllion plus people, which has an open border with a third world nation, which has top notch public health care?

I'll just await your reply.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The national parks aren't great because of the government. God gets credit for that.

You're right, one great public course means that public is better than private.


"no other country has good publicly funded healthcare"

Oh, I admit that some countries have great public healthcare. They tend to me tiny countries that are mostly homogeneous. So they can't compare to the US.

Can you show me a country of 300 milllion plus people, which has an open border with a third world nation, which has top notch public health care?

I'll just await your reply.

There’s more than that and you know it.

So what you’re saying is we are capable of putting men on the moon, being the world leader in technology, are the richest country in the world, etc. but because we are not all anglos and share a border with another country with brown people, healthcare is impossible.
It seems to be what you believe in your statement above.
Jim it is every single other developed country has some way of making sure that people have access to healthcare and better outcomes with lower costs.
Find one that doesn’t
I’ll wait
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here is how economies work

We spend one way or another either before, after or thru taxes as a nation, 35 trillion with a single payer system or 43.5 trillion with the current conglomeration of stuff that leaves more and more people out of the market each year.

So you think spending over 8 trillion more over ten years is a good deal?

I have a couple of months before I'm on Medicare and out of the private insurance market, I'm glad.

How ya gonna pay for it?

How are you going to get costs down?

Who is going to decide who gets fixed and who doesn't?

We are borrowing 1 T per year in order to spend more than we take. This is not sustainable, and you are going to add even more to this.