So the local friendly Antifa...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim they are 2 different conversations and 2 diffterent reasons they exist .. no one has suggest black on black violence isn't an issue
Blacks would agree with you .. and i do as well. but black on black violence has many factors . Where police killing unarmed blacks only have 2 factors blacks and police
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i know they are two different things. that’s why i asked which one does
more damage to the black community.

for the 4th or 5th time, which of these two different things - police brutality or black on black urban violence - claims more black lives?


Why won’t you answer? what does it say about how flimsy and thoughtless your beliefs are, that you are literally incapable of
answering such a simple question?
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[Sea Dangles]

Are you suggesting the back community get their own house in order before calling in the police?
Snake Blisken wouldn’t stand a chance in a lawless Chicago.
Animals

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by JohnR

There should be no Confederate Statues in Washington DC. But when do they come for Washington and Jefferson?

That didn't take long. Portland Washington

Of course Columbus, all over, but that was a given

But I am paranoid

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

That didn't take long. Portland Washington

Of course Columbus, all over, but that was a given

But I am paranoid

when they run out of statues...are they going to head for the museums and libraries? because there is probably a lot of stuff in those places that they can be offended by

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

That didn't take long. Portland Washington

Of course Columbus, all over, but that was a given

But I am paranoid

This has got Antifa’s fingerprints all over it.
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[Sea Dangles]

Probably white nationalists trying to tarnish the squeaky clean image of a community watchdog group.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

But "we" as citizens cannot see that data

And that's exactly why the DOJ is the agency that should investigate.
The records are not public or accessible to investigators outside of police agencies and as has been demonstrated repeatedly police do not like to be investigated by anyone, internally or externally.
So things happen, nobody talks and life goes on.

Originally Posted by JohnR

The only reason you want DOJ to investigate is to castigate the DOJ.


"We" as citizens, have proven unable to properly handle that data.

"We" as citizens, should be able to have a detailed dissection of the data and drill down and have comprehensive discussions BUT WE DON'T.

"We" as citizens, like Mom's Demand Action and Everytown, do not look at already PUBLICLY available data on firearm deaths for rifles (average less than 350 per year) and determine that this MASSIVE Gun Grab that divides this country is but for a tiny sliver (less than 0.1%).

So, yeh, maybe it is best NOT to have the data publicly available.

But if you wanted, you could go to your state and ask THEM for the data, or have the local paper do it.

The reason I want the DOJ to do it is because it quite literally is their job.
Ensuring the States follow the Constitution is the reason it was created and this was reaffirmed by Congress in the 60s with the Civil Rights Act.

What is not in DOJ's or Tweety's purview is the enforcement of state laws and few, if any federal laws have been violated in the current protests.

What do gun rights have to do with this discussion?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

This has got Antifa’s fingerprints all over it.
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Hahaha, no, this is just activists / agitators.

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Probably white nationalists trying to tarnish the squeaky clean image of a community watchdog group.

I've heard some say things like that.

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The reason I want the DOJ to do it is because it quite literally is their job.
Ensuring the States follow the Constitution is the reason it was created and this was reaffirmed by Congress in the 60s with the Civil Rights Act.

We're somewhat in alignment, I'd like to see the States AND the the Fed do their jobs.

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What do gun rights have to do with this discussion?

Everything. The inability of the left and right to detailed look and come to agreement, rather than using the issues of the day as a wedge to separate and further divide us.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by JohnR

That didn't take long. Portland Washington

Of course Columbus, all over, but that was a given

But I am paranoid

Up next, Abraham Lincoln.....

https://www.wcvb.com/article/boston-...moval/32860548
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[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Up next, Abraham Lincoln.....

https://www.wcvb.com/article/boston-...moval/32860548
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Well, to be fair the issue here isn't about Lincoln but rather the depiction of the slave.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, to be fair the issue here isn't about Lincoln but rather the depiction of the slave.

Well, to be fair, technically he isn't a slave, he's a free man.......your privilege is showing again.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, to be fair the issue here isn't about Lincoln but rather the depiction of the slave.

Probably better not to have any public art works. All art is subject to, and usually crafted with, "interpretation." Especially art depicting history. Can't think of any such art that wouldn't offend somebody.

Take it all down. And don't replace it with some new art that reflects the current ideological "consensus" on what is a socially just view of history. It will surely be offensive to someone in the future (and probably to someone now).

[Pete F.]

A historian on statues

Statues are not about remembrance, they are about commemoration; not teaching, but moralizing.

We have large, publicly funded history teaching tools. They're called museums (and also to an extent, battlefield parks).

But statues are not teaching tools. No history is lost when a statue comes down.

The question is, what values does this statue express?

So if you are thinking, "should this statue be here?" The question you want to ask is not "what history is it connected to?" but "what values does it express right now ?" Not who does it glorify, but WHY does it glorify them?

And for the person saying,"well, maybe it was because they were good soldiers" answer this: where are James Longstreet's statues? Why is there one confederate general left out of all of this soldierly commemoration?
Why? Because after the war, he supported reconstruction.
It was never about generalship or leadership, these statues were always about hate and Longstreet didn't hate quite enough for the hateful people who put these statues up.

That's the value they communicate. Hate.

So when evaluating a statue, ask yourself, "What values was this statue created to communicate? Are they good values? Are they values I believe in?"

And if the answer is "no" - remove that statue and replace it with one that does represent our values.

And if you don't think the Confederacy was about slavery and race, you have not read the Declarations of Causes of Seceding States.

[The Dad Fisherman]

One historians opinion does not represent a consensus.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Well, to be fair, technically he isn't a slave, he's a free man.......your privilege is showing again.
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He’s in shackles, you’re off by a moment.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

He’s in shackles, you’re off by a moment.
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The chains are broken, he's been set free.

His head is held up and he his looking forward. Some great symbolism in this piece.


Stop always trying to keep a Brother down

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[JohnR]

Maybe the Mayan Calendar is finally right because we surely never invent Time Travel.

If we did invent it, Time Traveling Social Justice Warriors would zip back from the Furry Republic and tell us how bad we are.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

He’s in shackles, you’re off by a moment.
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Mr T would be proud of you.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Social Justice Warriors

.

out of their parents basement to cause mayhem..

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

out of their parents basement to cause mayhem..

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[t.orlando]

Build a giant cage around Chaz....re-game it Thunderdome, and let them play it out.

[Pete F.]

Still waiting for all the Antifa arrests, meanwhile good ol' American's, not terrorists like them antifa boys are getting arrested and charged.

OAKLAND — An Air Force sergeant suspected of killing a Santa Cruz County sheriff’s sergeant will be charged, along with a Millbrae man, in the fatal shooting of a federal security officer last month in downtown Oakland, federal officials said Tuesday.

Officials said Carrillo harbored a hatred of law enforcement and had ties to a right-wing Boogaloo group that believes a second American Civil War is coming soon.

Underwood, a 53-year-old Pinole resident, was guarding the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building in Oakland amid protests nearby over police brutality and the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. The white van was captured on a surveillance video, officials said, which revealed that the gunman had slid open the van’s side door to fire the weapon.

An Air Force sergeant and leader in an elite military security force, Carrillo was armed with homemade bombs, an AR-15 rifle and other weapons and had a desire to harm police when he launched a deadly attack on unsuspecting officers, the Santa Cruz County sheriff said Monday.

Officials said Tuesday that Carrillo and Justus were not part of the protests and were taking advantage of them to carry out their attacks.

[PaulS]

In New Mexico the two people dressed as militiamen were probably Antifa in disguise
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Still waiting for all the Antifa arrests, meanwhile good ol' American's, not terrorists like them antifa boys are getting arrested and charged.

.

Obviously, this means no Antifa are involved or, if they are, they are being peaceful and law abiding. After all, their name stands for anti-fascism. So with a good name like that they could not possibly be about doing bad stuff.

And don't go on about the myth that they do as much as they can to not be recognized. To not be obvious dum-dums like real fascists and white supremecists who proudly parade their wares and their ability to create mayhem and death.

[Pete F.]

It’s interesting to remember that less than a year ago Tweety’s FBI director told Congress that the "majority of the domestic terrorism cases we’ve investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence."
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It’s interesting to remember that less than a year ago Tweety’s FBI director told Congress that the "majority of the domestic terrorism cases we’ve investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence."
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You mean like the Boogalo Bois who just shot and killed a federal agent at a protest?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Still waiting for all the Antifa arrests, meanwhile good ol' American's, not terrorists like them antifa boys are getting arrested and charged.

OAKLAND — An Air Force sergeant suspected of killing a Santa Cruz County sheriff’s sergeant will be charged, along with a Millbrae man, in the fatal shooting of a federal security officer last month in downtown Oakland, federal officials said Tuesday.

Officials said Carrillo harbored a hatred of law enforcement and had ties to a right-wing Boogaloo group that believes a second American Civil War is coming soon.

Underwood, a 53-year-old Pinole resident, was guarding the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building in Oakland amid protests nearby over police brutality and the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. The white van was captured on a surveillance video, officials said, which revealed that the gunman had slid open the van’s side door to fire the weapon.

An Air Force sergeant and leader in an elite military security force, Carrillo was armed with homemade bombs, an AR-15 rifle and other weapons and had a desire to harm police when he launched a deadly attack on unsuspecting officers, the Santa Cruz County sheriff said Monday.

Officials said Tuesday that Carrillo and Justus were not part of the protests and were taking advantage of them to carry out their attacks.

Good. Law enforcement caught them, investigated, and are going to determine a motive. May they be proescuted with the full extent of the law.

The people that killed Captain Dorn should be apprehended and prosecuted (see how that works).

THe people that killed others i anything but self defense should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Regardless of skin color, religion, or political leanings.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

The only reason you want DOJ to investigate is to castigate the DOJ.


"We" as citizens, have proven unable to properly handle that data.

"We" as citizens, should be able to have a detailed dissection of the data and drill down and have comprehensive discussions BUT WE DON'T.

"We" as citizens, like Mom's Demand Action and Everytown, do not look at already PUBLICLY available data on firearm deaths for rifles (average less than 350 per year) and determine that this MASSIVE Gun Grab that divides this country is but for a tiny sliver (less than 0.1%).

So, yeh, maybe it is best NOT to have the data publicly available.

But if you wanted, you could go to your state and ask THEM for the data, or have the local paper do it.

I have not spent the time to validate this, but based on my attempts to find this information, I suspect that it is correct
FBI launched database on police use of force last year, but only 40 percent of police participated, and the data has not been published yet.

This data belongs to the public.
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