Ukraine

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Huh? Jan 6 was stupid but it was not the greatest threat to American Democracy since the Civil War. No matter what Rachel Maddow says.

John, I am surprised at your assessment of my post. It did not mention any media member by name, nor did it give such a magnanimous label to the event... The point was that you and I knew there was a confrontation of sorts coming on January 6. We also knew what type of group was coming and who was encouraging them to travel there. And if I knew, why wasn't there a beefed up presence of "security" to support the Capitol Police, who in the end, were the ones who took the hit.

In the Ukraine, the world watched as Putin directed his troops to the border in numbers that would easily support a successful invasion of the country. While I am reading reports of their pullback by the thousands this morning, it does not change the fact that we know who is in charge of those troops and what their intent was meant to be.

Technology has allowed us to see these events in real time. Both appear to be over, but we watched history from our homes as it happened, and were powerless to change or stop it. Yet we could all see the build up in the days and weeks ahead of their happening. Which is the bigger threat? More to the point, which can we have the greater effect on to change the course of history going forward?

Lastly, stupid is too timid, weak, and unassertive a word to describe what we bore witness to on January 6. It certainly doesn't cover the actions I saw by zealots trying to stop the Congress from doing their work in ratifying the Electoral College process. The division in our country is real. But this was a very wrong way to effect change or even gain clear thinking supporters. If anything, it deepened the divide and pushed away many lifelong republican supporting voters.

[wdmso]

I’ve done a search with Rachel maddow January 6th the greatest threat to American Democracy since the Civil War

All I found was

Right-wing erupts after Biden declares Jan. 6 “worst attack on democracy since Civil War"
One right-wing website angrily "fact-checked" the claim as "false"


Biden ripped for calling Capitol riots ‘worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War

https://nypost.com/2021/04/29/biden-...the-civil-war/

And as if on cue the right can’t accept the truth and this is how they respond.. with their hero Glenn Greenwald .. he is a local favorite of some here

January 6 was worse than 9/11? Or Pearl Harbor?” prominent journalist Glenn Greenwald asked of the president’s claim to Congress Wednesday night used as apparent proof that he was leading the US out of crisis.

“Or the Oklahoma City bombing? Or the dismantling of civil liberties in the name of the Cold War and War on Terror?

“Or the mass surveillance program secretly and illegally implemented by NSA aimed at US citizens?” continued Greenwald, referring to the Edward Snowden expose of government documents he first reported.

“How about the War on Drugs, mass incarceration and Jim Crow? Were those worse ‘attacks on democracy’ than the 3-hour Capitol riot on Jan. 6?

Seems mr Greenwald missed the point! of all that he mentioned the civil war was started by other Americans against the United States of American , and what happened on Jan 6th was an attack by Americans against the United States of American ! In an attempt change an election with the express support and coordination and cooperation of the former POTUS some in his administration and sitting members of Congress ..

All whom refuse to testify or have filed lawsuits against the Jan 6th commission…. To obstruct their findings …. America 1st my arse

Even President Donald Trump said: "If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?".

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Seems mr Greenwald missed the point! of all that he mentioned the civil war was started by other Americans against the United States of American , and what happened on Jan 6th was an attack by Americans against the United States of American ! In an attempt change an election with the express support and coordination and cooperation of the former POTUS some in his administration and sitting members of Congress ..

All whom refuse to testify or have filed lawsuits against the Jan 6th commission…. To obstruct their findings …. America 1st my arse

Even President Donald Trump said: "If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?".

Yup
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Even President Donald Trump said: "If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?".

But Trump is a liar.

So what do you think about what's going on in Ukraine?

[scottw]

hope they got stress balls for Christmas....

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

But Trump is a liar.

So what do you think about what's going on in Ukraine?

I made my case on Ukraine

Trump is a liar … ps who held up the Ukraine arms . That conservatives say the so desperately need .. to get dirt on Biden. Trump the liar

Putin saw his free Ukraine free pass disappear when Biden took office and the US mended or started to mend NATO after 4 years of Trump

Just read the headlines.

the sudden decision to remove 9,500 U.S. troops from Germany by September, a move that sent shockwaves through NATO.


Trump wanted to leave NATO

So now Putin is trying to exploit a fractured NATO before Biden can heal the wounds , But Iam sure that’s all fake news
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I made my case on Ukraine

Trump is a liar … ps who held up the Ukraine arms . That conservatives say the so desperately need .. to get dirt on Biden. Trump the liar

Putin saw his free Ukraine free pass disappear when Biden took office and the US mended or started to mend NATO after 4 years of Trump

Just read the headlines.

the sudden decision to remove 9,500 U.S. troops from Germany by September, a move that sent shockwaves through NATO.


Trump wanted to leave NATO

So now Putin is trying to exploit a fractured NATO before Biden can heal the wounds , But Iam sure that’s all fake news
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Actually, Trump sent more arms to NATO than Obama did, and he did not pull out of NATO, and he persuaded more NATO members to pony up the money they owed and so strengthened NATO. Putin had a free pass to invade and take Crimea under Obama and a weak NATO.

So, what's to stop Putin from invading Ukraine now.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Actually, Trump sent more arms to NATO than Obama did, and he did not pull out of NATO, and he persuaded more NATO members to pony up the money they owed and so strengthened NATO. Putin had a free pass to invade and take Crimea under Obama and a weak NATO.

So, what's to stop Putin from invading Ukraine now.

So you think America and nato should have used force to stop Putin when he took Crimea? And should do so if they move on Ukraine ? For what benefit?

Also you think all Trump did to nato was make nato pay more?? To strengthen nato Thats funny he weakened Nato more in 4 years than any previous POTUS ..

Try searching how Trump weakened nato

All lies??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So you think America and nato should have used force to stop Putin when he took Crimea? And should do so if they move on Ukraine ? For what benefit?

Also you think all Trump did to nato was make nato pay more?? To strengthen nato Thats funny he weakened Nato more in 4 years than any previous POTUS ..

Try searching how Trump weakened nato

All lies??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I didn't render an opinion on how Putin should have been stopped. I asked you "So, what's to stop Putin from invading Ukraine now"?

And opinions on NATO being weakened or strengthened during Trump's administration are prone to being politicized. Here's one for you that's more balanced and says NATO became stronger and it criticizes Trump but says that NATO was strengthened partially in spite of Trump and partially because of him:

http://turkishpolicy.com/article/965...d-the-alliance

[Nebe]

There has been a lot of drama surrounding Russian Gas flowing into Western Europe and i wonder if Putin is going to use Ukraine as a bartering chip for pipeline approvals.

Just a hunch

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Nebe

There has been a lot of drama surrounding Russian Gas flowing into Western Europe and i wonder if Putin is going to use Ukraine as a bartering chip for pipeline approvals.

Just a hunch

As i was saying……

Ukraine crisis: Nord Stream 2 pipeline could be axed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60151839