Ukraine

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

More baloney from you and Trump

What baloney? You said "JUST imagine if trump were still president, actually you don’t have to, just read his statements"

Which you followed by selecting parts of his statements out of full context and true meaning. I did, as you suggested, read his FULL statements, then corrected your baloney.

Trump, when he claims he got $130 billion extra, is really talking about indirect funding. Since 2006, each NATO member has had a guideline of spending at least 2 percent of gross domestic product on defense spending. At a 2014 summit, responding to Russian aggression in Ukraine, NATO members pledged to meet that guideline by 2024.
Note the date — that was three years before Trump became president, and a year before he even announced he was running for president. Yet he persistently claims credit for actions that were underway before he became president — and consistently misleads about where NATO funding was headed before he became president.

"Were underway? "was headed" Russia was going to wait until 2024? Eight countries had already achieved that goal. The U.S. was spending beyond that goal. The head of NATO praised Trump for helping to speed up the process. We're still almost 3 years away from 2024 and Russia has again done what was the reason for pledging the money.


Trump’s foreign policy sought to do much of what Putin wants to achieve, including intimidating Ukraine by withholding vital defensive weapons.

Trump's foreign policy did not "seek to do what Putin wants. It even countered Putin in some regards. Including the damage to Russias profits from oil with making us a net exporter of oil thus lowering the world price for it.

Ukraine got the vital defensive weapons. And now NATO members are ponying up more money to send Ukraine more weapons and other help. It seems like NATO needed a wake up call to action and spending well before 2024.

Putin wanted to undermine the NATO alliance, and Trump undermined the NATO alliance.

Trump did not undermine the alliance. And there was already grumbling within the alliance which was not putting up as strong a face to Russia as it should.

Putin wanted to weaken the E.U., and Trump did everything he could to damage the E.U.

Trump did not, as you say, do everything he could do to damage the E.U. And the E.U. members had forever conflicted and bickered and "damaged" the efficacy of the EU.

Putin wanted to weaken the U.S. political system, and Trump was constantly trying to weaken the U.S. political system.

Trump was not trying to weaken the U.S. political system. And the Progressives have a hundred year history of weakening the founded system and transforming it into an authoritarian system that is totally turningthe system on its head.

If Trump had been re-elected, Russia would have become a member of the G8, the sanctions would have ended and Trump would have paved the way for Putin’s seizure of Ukraine

The President doesn't have the authority to unilaterally decide who will be accepted into the intergovernmental forum. And, obviously, Putin didn't need being a member of the G8 to "pave his way."

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

The President doesn't have the authority to unilaterally decide who will be accepted into the intergovernmental forum. And, obviously, Putin didn't need being a member of the G8 to "pave his way."

So you would really argue that the West would have produced this level of organized response if Trump was in office and belittling allies, praising Putin, & denigrating international institutions-after extorting Zelensky and falsely claiming Ukraine interfered against him?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

So you would really argue that the West would have produced this level of organized response if Trump was in office and belittling allies, praising Putin, & denigrating international institutions-after extorting Zelensky and falsely claiming Ukraine interfered against him?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

if that’s all so obvious, why didn’t Putin move when Trump was in office? you’re saying Putin would have been far better off invading then, so why didn’t he?

Have fun getting out of that one.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

if that’s all so obvious, why didn’t Putin move when Trump was in office? you’re saying Putin would have been far better off invading then, so why didn’t he?

Have fun getting out of that one.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Putin’s goal in 2020 just like in 2016 was to get Trump elected.
I’m sure if he had been re-elected and it came out that Putin had waited till after the election, you would be claiming “well, Obama did it”
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Putin’s goal in 2020 just like in 2016 was to get Trump elected.
I’m sure if he had been re-elected and it came out that Putin had waited till after the election, you would be claiming “well, Obama did it”
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

you’re saying it was more important for Putin to make Trump look good, than to invade at the optimal time.

Makes sense.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’re saying it was more important for Putin to make Trump look good, than to invade at the optimal time.

Makes sense.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Optimally, Putin would have it given to him.
Like Belarus
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’re saying it was more important for Putin to make Trump look good, than to invade at the optimal time.

Makes sense.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Are you seriously questioning why we left leaning posters are focused on what Trump is doing? The GOP became the party of Trump, everything he does and says appears to point to him running again, so when we are in the worst European conflict since WWII, instead of showing support for Ukraine, the US or the EU, he lavashes praise on Putin and criticizes everything nato is doing. Trump continues to give Putin wonderful state media clips to bolster his image.

Trump gave Putin just what he needed while in office, undermining nato, legitimizing Putin’s views of Ukraine and his goals, attempting to withhold funding, it’s an easy argument to win on why Putin waited until now, knowing Trump was not in a position to help him further. Keep believing Trump isn’t influenced by Russia, I loved Mitt Romneys comments on both Trump and Green, spot on.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Are you seriously questioning why we left leaning posters are focused on what Trump is doing? The GOP became the party of Trump, o when we are in the worst European conflict since WWII, ineverything he does and says appears to point to him running again, sstead of showing support for Ukraine, the US or the EU, he lavashes praise on Putin and criticizes everything nato is doing. Trump continues to give Putin wonderful state media clips to bolster his image.

Trump gave Putin just what he needed while in office, undermining nato, legitimizing Putin’s views of Ukraine and his goals, attempting to withhold funding, it’s an easy argument to win on why Putin waited until now, knowing Trump was not in a position to help him further. Keep believing Trump isn’t influenced by Russia, I loved Mitt Romneys comments on both Trump and Green, spot on.

"Are you seriously questioning why we left leaning posters are focused on what Trump is doing?"

No, I'm not questioning it (I'm well aware of Trump Derangement Syndrome), I'm poking fun at it.

"he lavashes praise on Putin"

Is saying "Putin is cunning" the same as saying "I hope Putin wins"? I keep hearing democrats say that republicans and trump are "siding with Putin".

It's fait to speculate about what Trump would have done. But it's all you guys are talking about, you spend almost no time discussing what Biden is doing, and one can assume it's because you know this is another policy failure for Biden and you can't bear discussing it.

I'm with you, I don't want Trump as potus.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

So you would really argue that the West would have produced this level of organized response if Trump was in office and belittling allies, praising Putin, & denigrating international institutions-after extorting Zelensky and falsely claiming Ukraine interfered against him?

Trump's so-called "belittling allies" was to a great extent pointing out that they needed a higher level of response to their own security. He did not see the need to spend so much of our resources to protect them if they did not do so themselves. We were spending tons of money and resources world-wide, Europe, Asia, the Middle East, south of our border, for our security and that of the rest of the world. Trump wanted others to pull some more of that weight. No doubt, that was not a popular message to those who would rather we ease their burden.

So now, Europe understands that he was right. Of course, they wouldn't put it that way.

And Trump's so-called praise of Putin was carefully diplomatic, as was his "praise of Xi and the "little rocket man." But he was also very tough on them. He was tougher on Putin than his predecessor was. He was attacking China's economy and putting pressure on NK.