NFL Hall of fame

[BigFish]

Mike...pack up that "intangible" thing...if they are voting players into Halls of Fame based on intangibles, then they are not voting enough players into the Halls of Fame.

[BigFish]

Mike said "legitimized" Ron....that means he made it palatable by giving the AFL teeth by winning Superbowl 3 against the Chiefs as they were the underdog AFL and had no business being there until Namath shot his mouth off and lucked out!

[Raider Ronnie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigFish
[B]Sounds like Drew Bledsoes problem too Mike....can't look past his primary. I was only using Grogan as a yardstick....I don't think he belongs in any more than I think Namath belongs in and Ron I could not agree more with you that Namath is in on a guarantee! Thats all he ever did! How many of those AFC Championship games did Stabler win Ron?
How many can you win when the Dolphins and Steelers were there every year.
The hall of fame is filled with players from Those Dolphins and Steelers teams.

[Mike P]

From the business end, yes. Namath gave the AFL teams credibility and showed they could play with the big boys. All of a sudden, the AFL wasn't a minor league any longer. It was a lot easier to convince the Steelers, Colts and Browns to be realigned to the AFC to balance out scheduling once Namath put the AFL teams on parity. Lenny Dawson helped to cement it with the Chiefs the next year, true, but Namath got most of the credit.

BTW, much of what he did in that game was hand off to his power back (Matt Snell) too Little trivia--Namath is the only QB to win a SB without throwing a TD pass.

[BigFish]

Ron, you have an excuse for everything....why the Raiders and Stabler did not win more, why the Patriots win so much these days! All these excuses you have are just your way of making what these teams do look cheap and lucky instead of deserving and hard-earned.

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally posted by BigFish
Mike said "legitimized" Ron....that means he made it palatable by giving the AFL teeth by winning Superbowl 3 against the Chiefs as they were the underdog AFL and had no business being there until Namath shot his mouth off and lucked out!

Larry,
Go back and watch that super bowl.
Buddy Ryan's defense won that superbowl, Not Namath!!!

[Mike P]

I type too freakin' slow to keep up with you two

Like it or not, Larry, intangibles are part of the equation. I personally think that Bob Griese was one of the most overrated QBs of all time. I well remember SB 6 where Bob Lilly had him running for his life most of the game. Rings also count for the Hall, tho, and he has 2.

[BigFish]

Wow Mike....that is a telling stat and one I was unaware of! Namath did not throw a score in that Superbowl? Wow! Namath was truely way over rated but he can drink most other QB's under the table!

Ron...the fact that Stabler and the Raiders could not get by teams like Miami and Pittsburg tells you right there that they and he were not on par with the better teams in football at the time...even more so it tells me, by what you said, that the Raiders must have gotten lucky that one time they did win the Superbowl in the 70's!

Ron...wear that respirator when you are in the spray booth. The MSDS shows that the fumes can cause brain damage.

[BigFish]

I don't agree with the intangible thing Mike but I agree with the ring theory....they almost guarantee you a place in the Hall. Stabler will get in based on that fact and so will Doug Williams!

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally posted by BigFish
Wow Mike....that is a telling stat and one I was unaware of! Namath did not throw a score in that Superbowl? Wow! Namath was truely way over rated but he can drink most other QB's under the table!

Ron...the fact that Stabler and the Raiders could not get by teams like Miami and Pittsburg tells you right there that they and he were not on par with the better teams in football at the time...even more so it tells me, by what you said, that the Raiders must have gotten lucky that one time they did win the Superbowl in the 70's!

Ron...wear that respirator when you are in the spray booth. The MSDS shows that the fumes can cause brain damage.

I very rarely Paint Larry!!!

[Mike P]

The Jets D pretty much shut down Morrall, but Namath deserves a lot of credit for controlling the game and the clock, and keeping the ball out of Baltimore's hands for much of that game. Remember, back then, QBs called their own plays. Namath was 17/28 and 206 yards, a lot of them short passes to Snell and Mathis out of the backfield, or to George Sauer on short outs. Don Maynard didn't have a single catch the whole game--they used him as a decoy. The AFL was supposedly the home of the mad bombers, put it up 50 times a game and win 52-49

Time of Possession NYJ 36:10 Bal 23:50

Snell had 30 carries for 121 yards to go with his receptions.

The Jets D picked Morrall 3 times, and Unitas once.

And yes, a little known fact, Buddy Ryan was one of Weeb Ewbank's assistants. They weren't "co-ordinators" back then---just assistant coaches.

[Raider Ronnie]

So Mike.
Back to my origional point the Bigfish can't see to comprehend.
Do you think Steve Young is a 1st ballot hall of famer when Marino is in the same year?

[Mike P]

Looking at who else was on this year's ballot---yup. It's not like baseball where you can have only one guy elected--or even zero from time to time. You have to elect a minimum of three (not two as I originally stated) every year. Young has better credentials than the rest of the field, much as I love Harry Carson.

Is there a bias in favor of QBs in the Hall---betcha ass there is. 21 QBs as opposed to 24 RBs (most teams have two of them, ya know ) 19 wideouts of which most teams have two. Only 6 tight ends. And 19 DBs, bearing in mind that most teams field 4.

Look at it this way--if Ted Williams and Al Kaline became eligible for baseball's Hall the same year, would you deny Kaline just because Teddy Ballgame was on the ballot? Kaline had the stats to make it, he's in. You're not comparing them head to head, you're recognizing the respective achievements of both.

[Raider Ronnie]

I would have picked Art Monk!!!

[BigFish]

Mike....that was my point several posts ago...but Ron could not see that then and probably won't see it now because Stabler did not make it in and he seems blinded by that fact, not the fact that they are not being compared one to the other but simply, once again, being honored for their individual achievements.

[Mike P]

You could pick as many as 6.

I would have picked Richard Dent, as I thought he was a better DE than his Bears teammate Dan Hampton, who's already in Canton.

Harry Carson.

Monk over Irvin.

Greenwood was as valuable to the Steel Curtain as Mean Joe.

Plus Marino and Young, of course.

There's my 6.

Honoring old-timers like Fritz Pollard and Benny Friedman is nice, but they should be in a separate voting category like baseball. I thought they were, but apparenly they're not. How the voters can pass on the qualifications of players they never saw is beyond me. And even tho I'm a Giants fan, I never heard of Benny Friedman before today

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally posted by Mike P
You could pick as many as 6.

I would have picked Richard Dent, as I thought he was a better DE than his Bears teammate Dan Hampton, who's already in Canton.

Harry Carson.

Monk over Irvin.

Greenwood was as valuable to the Steel Curtain as Mean Joe.

Plus Marino and Young, of course.

There's my 6.

Honoring old-timers like Fritz Pollard and Benny Friedman is nice, but they should be in a separate voting category like baseball. I thought they were, but apparenly they're not. How the voters can pass on the qualifications of players they never saw is beyond me. And even tho I'm a Giants fan, I never heard of Benny Friedman before today

Just as you think (and I agree) that there should be seperate voting catagory for old timers,
I think that only a select few at any position should ever qualify as 1st year eligibly inducties. and not because they have to fill a number of inducties and have to pick the best of whats left of the finalist!!!