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Old 04-04-2005, 12:44 PM   #1
fishweewee
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Old 04-04-2005, 01:04 PM   #2
spence
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Simple solution.

End this free-market nonsense as practiced by Buhs and Clinton because it is selling our very foundation in the name of corporate profits.

I really don't think our standard of living will be impacted that dramatically if we can't buy .69 cent potato peelers and 15 dollar DVD players.

There's a balance point there somewhere.

-spence
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Old 04-04-2005, 02:45 PM   #3
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John - That's exactly my point. Maybe the corporate big shots don't realize, or maybe they just don't care because this process will take a while. But, the fact is that everytime they migrate an operation to China they are firing their BEST CUSTOMERS.
When Billybob loses his good paying job in the brass mill and gets a job at Walmart, he ain't buying no Plasma TV's - neither is Wonhunglo, who's working at the new brass mill in Xianjang cause he's only making 25 yuan a month!
Walmart's gonna have to layoff Billybob, cause their sales are down.All these wonderful service jobs disappear because there's no manufacturing base to support them.
Unemployment rises as the tax base shrinks and we have a crises on our hands.
The incumbent will get blamed, a new party voted in, but it's too late - the damage is done.
And the CEO retires to Cancun eessed:
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Old 04-04-2005, 05:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybob
John - That's exactly my point. Maybe the corporate big shots don't realize, or maybe they just don't care because this process will take a while. But, the fact is that everytime they migrate an operation to China they are firing their BEST CUSTOMERS.
When Billybob loses his good paying job in the brass mill and gets a job at Walmart, he ain't buying no Plasma TV's - neither is Wonhunglo, who's working at the new brass mill in Xianjang cause he's only making 25 yuan a month!
Walmart's gonna have to layoff Billybob, cause their sales are down.All these wonderful service jobs disappear because there's no manufacturing base to support them.
Unemployment rises as the tax base shrinks and we have a crises on our hands.
The incumbent will get blamed, a new party voted in, but it's too late - the damage is done.
And the CEO retires to Cancun eessed:
Wal Mart is the single biggest importer of Products manufactured in China according to a 60 minutes program recently aired. $18Bil (thats billion)in 2004 or approx 70% of their goods are manufactured in china, and they expect this to grow at 20% yearly. They are a big part of the problem. They squeeze manufacturers til its unprofitable for the manufacturer to deal with them, then they suggest to that manufacturer, "hey. why dont you consider manufacturing overseas(asia) to reduce yourt costs". Think about that next time you shop at Wal Mart.

Last edited by Diamond Tackle; 04-04-2005 at 05:20 PM.. Reason: add info

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Old 04-04-2005, 05:15 PM   #5
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I was at The Gap the other day and I was looking for socks. Surprisingly all the socks they had were either made in the USA or in Canada. I felt good about that and bought a couple more pairs.
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Old 04-04-2005, 07:16 PM   #6
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BillBob - I know, that's what I meant.

Sadly funny, "the world needs ditch diggers" is true, but our economy needs a swath of people representing the entire spectrum of the job market from the bottom to the top, and we need the jobs that support them. So a few years back Wall Street ups the stock of a company for cutting costs by laying off a few thousand here and a few there, and then other companies follow suit. (Yeh, I'm picking unrelated situations here)... But now some of those workers are working again, sometimes in the same field and sometimes in new careers, often at a lower pay and position than before as there is somewhat of a glut, yet they no longer count against the unemployment becuase the 80K job has been replaced with a 50K job. And the 50 with a 30 yada,yada,yada...

People are getting retrained at the governments expense (read ours) to learn new skills, ie computers, or various corners of the service industry because their job was moved overseas.

In my field of IT, the loss of jobs to the dot.com boom (partially the fault of STOOOPID investers not knowing what WTF they were doing), the offshoring of positions (plenty of interesting articles saying how well that is working ) and I was competing for positions with my certs, skills, and 9 years on the job against someone with a masters and 15 years that may be severly overqualified but that's where the market was. Now I'm not buying a lot of stuff too. (Anyone looking for a network geek?)

So we have this wasting away of our industry and manufacturing base as the jobs go overseas. That person that spun metal is now landscaping or painting if they are lucky or Walmarting if they are not. The buying power remaining requires thay shop at Walmart further fueling the cycle. Wall Street raves about WM's success.

Housing costs in New England as well as other areas have skyrocketed. I moved to RI a few years ago but could never move back to mass now if I wanted. In the Boston area, pretty much between Providence and Nashua NH you need to spend 450-500K and up for a decent 3-4br in the average comunities. How much does Joe and Sally just got married need to have in combined income to turn that kind of nut? 120K household income? More? And Joe CEO has managed a company half into the ground but gets a big dollar bonus?

We have big effing problems in this great country.

Our schools suck for the most part.

We can't graduate ONE THIRD of our kids even though 20-30 percent of those that do probably should not in the first place.

The parents that should be reading to their kids when young are pulling three jobs to keep above water.

We're buying so much imported product that our dollars are all overseas, mostly in Asia.

The dollar is devauling. Sure, now our products are more attractive but what do we have left to trade with? Boeings? Sure, China will take some Boeings from us. The first 10 and then they start license production... Oil is going theu the roof from demand overseas and to the weak dollar.

Corporations are setting up shop in the Carribean so to evade taxes and pumping more money, then offshoring the jobs to save more money.

We are losing our technical edge.

We have lost our manufacturing edge.

How many service jobs will there be replace the industrial economy that we had?

China keeps ignoring patents and builds or rev-engineers when they want. They are building SIGNIFICANT military forces in their neck of the woods that while we may more and better, our stuff is not all in there neck of the woods. They control the access to the Panama Canal

We were the cat's nuts before. We are losing it people.

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Old 04-04-2005, 07:36 PM   #7
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Time to send the Union Organizers Overseas....
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Old 04-04-2005, 07:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Simple solution.

End this free-market nonsense as practiced by Buhs and Clinton because it is selling our very foundation in the name of corporate profits.

I really don't think our standard of living will be impacted that dramatically if we can't buy .69 cent potato peelers and 15 dollar DVD players.

There's a balance point there somewhere.

-spence
exactly

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Old 04-04-2005, 08:10 PM   #9
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Certain free market issues are already starting to show up in India relative to It suppport etc... Competition for qualified people, (can't be found) and wage scales and benefit packages are skyrocketing, etc... Sound familiar? Humpty may not be too far off as an analogy. Bottom line, all's fair in Love and War. We're at War economically speaking right now. Ask any Joe on the street. Question is, does anyone in Washington know it????
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Old 04-04-2005, 08:14 PM   #10
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does anyone believe that free market is natural and healthy ?

does anyone remember Korea ? Mexico ? The Free market (through industry) has hopped and skipped it's way around the 3rd world looking for labor to exploit or moves on when the countries standard of living gets to high

IMO, unfortunately that seems to be the norm in the animal kingdom. kill or be killed i guess....

it means we feel slighted because our quest for profit has superceeded our quest for excellence
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Old 04-04-2005, 08:44 PM   #11
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That's what happens when your economy is based on growth as opposed to sustainability.
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Old 04-05-2005, 08:10 AM   #12
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Beachwalker, your right. Companies have been chasing the cheap labor around the third world for decades.Gradually the standard of living and costs rise and they move on to the next.This migration has always had an effect on American jobs.But, China's gonna be the mother of all job busters.They just have sooo many people, and the investment community is Jumping all over it despite the political and economic risks. China is allowed to grow at an unprecedented rate on someone else's dime.
So perhaps it's survival of the fittest, and there's a new world order around the bend. The gravy train is pulling into the station.
The part I don't understand is: Why aren't we fighting it?
We are taking on water and standing on the foredeck, when maybe it's time to pull it into drydock and shore her up before we lose her.
If you know what I mean.
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Old 04-06-2005, 08:11 AM   #13
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a few years back I had some problems with my penn reels and got no satisfaction from penn resolving these issues.... I went to shimmanno and haven't looked back......(well I did look at some of the penns last season, but walked away) .... it is a sad fact that all the sacred items that we used to pride ourselves with making have been outsourced ........

one more cast.....

don't forget to take your trash home
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