They Think It Can't Happen Here Again!!!!

[Homerun04]

If that's the case Mike (and I tend to agree) then why have we don't little to nothing to secure our borders, ports and old Soviet nukes since 9/11?

That is EXACTLY my point Spence. We in the USA need to CHANGE our vision of what the USA is all about UNTIL we end the terrorism threat.

Once that is accomplished, then we can go back to the "open society" vision we have for the USA.

When you have a perfectly good barrel of apples, and then you let a few bad apples in to the barrel, you stop letting any more apples into the barrel until the bad apples have been expelled or eliminated -- or else eventually the whole barrel spoils.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Homerun04

That is EXACTLY my point Spence. We in the USA need to CHANGE our vision of what the USA is all about UNTIL we end the terrorism threat.

Exactly the wrong thing to do.

There's no reason why we can't deal with terrorisim without changing what makes America the best country in the world. The challenge is in putting aside partisan BS and electoral paranoia and working toward pragmatic and mindful solutions.

-spence

[Homerun04]

Exactly the wrong thing to do.

Well then I'll remember your feelings on this the next time terrorist kill over 4,000 people in the US. As for me, I never want to look any mother in the eye AGAIN who's child has died here in the US due to a terrorist attack - and have to tell her that I think the terrorists have just as much right to be here in the USA as does anyone else -- because that is the kind of country we WANT to be.

Theory and practicality are often at odds with one another.

[beachwalker]

Originally Posted by spence

Exactly the wrong thing to do.

There's no reason why we can't deal with terrorisim without changing what makes America the best country in the world. The challenge is in putting aside partisan BS and electoral paranoia and working toward pragmatic and mindful solutions.

-spence

no offense spence (not directed "at" you) but IMO opinion America has to STOP bragging that they are the "GREATEST" or "BEST" country in the world. That is a big reason why a lot of other countries dislike us. We are to cockey. A lot of other countries don't suck either....

[spence]

Originally Posted by beachwalker

no offense spence (not directed "at" you) but IMO opinion America has to STOP bragging that they are the "GREATEST" or "BEST" country in the world. That is a big reason why a lot of other countries dislike us. We are to cockey. A lot of other countries don't suck either....

Nothing wrong with feeling you're the best, the US is pretty unique in the World community.

The problem is a lack of humility, overt entitlement and the obvious arrogance.

-spence

[Homerun04]

On average 43,000 people die in car accidents each year.

Okay, explain to me what else the government can do to prevent drunk driving...?? Or to prevent less car accidents..??

[likwid]

Make penalties 100x more brutal.

Take away licenses permanently.
Put people in jail for long periods of time for drunk driving.

[Homerun04]

I agree wholeheartedly likwid.....so let's do those things.

But why would doing any of those things prevent us from also fighting terrorism? In other words, the original statement made was that the USA needs to focus our resources on domestic issues that cause more deaths to our citizens then terrorism.

I don't see very many resources needed to implement your suggestions. So, let's do both - simultaneously --- fight terrorism AND fix the drunk driving issue. Seems we have the resources for both. One is NOT interdependent upon the other.

[fishweewee]

I have a low-cost, but ultimately greasy solution.

Put cooked bacon in every subway car, cargo ship, airport, and other suitable public places. Replenish as needed. Kinda like dangling some garlic to ward off vampires.

If you really want to get mean, invade all mid-east countries, then, institutite American football as the official sport. You know, pigskin?

weewee

[beachwalker]

Originally Posted by spence

Nothing wrong with feeling you're the best, the US is pretty unique in the World community.

The problem is a lack of humility, overt entitlement and the obvious arrogance.

-spence

true spence, we are but "obvious arrogance" hit's the nail right on the head

[likwid]

And this would be a good poll:

Is it bad foreign policy or "blind hate"?
I'll take the former thanks.

[likwid]

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005...sible-for.html

ABC News just reported that the British authorities say they have evidence that the London attacks last week were an operation planned by Al Qaeda for the last two years. This was an operation the Brits thought they caught and stopped in time, but they were wrong. The piece of the puzzle ABC missed is that this is an operation the Bush administration helped botch last year.

I.e., last year Bush botched the effort to thwart the London subway attacks.

1. The London bombers, per ABC, are connected to an Al Qaeda plot planned two years ago in Lahore, Pakistan.

2. Pakistani authorities recovered the laptop of a captured Al Qaeda leader, Mohammed Naeem Noor Khan, on July 13, 2004. On that laptop, they found plans for a coordinated series of attacks on the London subway. According to an expert interviewed by ABC, "there is absolutely no doubt that Khan was part of a worldwide Al Qaeda operation, not just in the United States but also in Great Britain and throughout the west."

Also important, but not reported by ABC this evening, after his arrest Khan started working for our side - sending emails to his other Al Qaeda buddies, working as our mole.

3. ABC reports that names in Khan's computer matched a suspected cell of Britain's of Pakistani decent, many of who lived near the town of Luton, England. According to ABC, authorities thought they had stopped the subway plot with the arrest of more than a dozen people last year associated with Khan. Obviously, they hadn't.

4. Those arrests were the arrests that the Bush administration botched by announcing a heightened security alert the week of the Democratic Convention. The alert was raised because of information found on Khan's computer (this is in the public record already, see below). In its effort to either prove that the alert was serious, or to try and scare people during the Dem Convention, the administration gave the press too much information about WHY they raised the alert. This put the media on the trail of Khan - they found him, and they published his name.

Because the US let the cat out of the bag, the media got a hold of Khan's name and published the fact that he had been captured - his Al Qaeda contacts thus found out their "buddy" was actually a mole, and they fled. Our sole source inside Al Qaeda was destroyed. As a result, the Brits had to have a high speed chase to catch some of Khan's Al Qaeda associates as they fled, and, according to press reports, the Brits and Pakistanis both fear that some slipped away.

Again, these were guys involved with the plot to blow up the London subway last week. Some may have escaped because of Bush administration negligence involving a leak.

[Mike P]

Long ago, someone wrote that if a nuclear bomb ever hit NYC, it wouldn't arrive on the nose of a Soviet ICBM but in the hull of a freighter. This was before dozens of large container ships arrived in Port Newark and Port Elizabeth every day of the year. Each carrying over 100 individual truck containers. Impossible to check every one before they enter the port area. Even with triple or quadruple the resources we have employed at the moment---and yes, it's a paltry and pathetic effort at present. Even screening them before they left the unloading area wouldn't be much of a deterrent. You don't have to wait for a semi to hook up to it and drive it into lower Manhattan--you set a timer to detonate it at the dock. You kill everyone in a 2 mile radius and with the right wind, you blanket Manhattan with radiation.

Same thing with other ports, like Baltimore, that have large scale containerized freight operations. How many thousands of individual containers get off loaded every day at the various ports?

Like I said---I'm not smart enough to figure it out. Hopefully, intelligence assets can sniff out such a plan, but they still only need to get lucky once.