America spying on terrorists without court approval - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

MoroneSaxatilis · 12-18-2005, 07:29 PM

Skip, I think you're missing my point. I certainly have nothing to hide from law enforcement. I engage in no illegal activity. Does that mean that I want someone reading my private emails or listening to my private phone calls? When some guys have posted on this thread that if we give up too many civil liberties then we become just like the enemy, this is exactly what they're talking about. During the cold war, communist regimes could evesdrop on thier citizens without the permission of any courts or any other authority and without fear of reprisal. So are we to follow that path? Doesn't that, as some have said here, make US just like THEM, thereby allowing Them to "win"?

Nebe · 12-18-2005, 07:52 PM

What this boils down to is simple. Do you think the president should break the 10 comandments of our constitution without permision from our representitives in congress and the senate?

i dont. Why??? its un-constitutional, and the president should not be above the law ever.. duh...

The Dad Fisherman · 12-18-2005, 07:53 PM

It isn't just terrorists that they are monitoring, it would be any suspicious communication or any thing that may send up a flag.

if I have a friend overseas that I send e-mails to that could be enough for them to have a look. Is that right? my privacy invaded just because i have a buddy overseas.

One thing that keeps getting mentioned over and over again is that if we start to change because of what THEY do....then THEY win. That is so true, we can't let them change us.

We can't turn into a society of prying, suspicious, paranoid people....no good can come from that.

Skip N · 12-18-2005, 09:07 PM

"It isn't just terrorists that they are monitoring, it would be any suspicious communication or any thing that may send up a flag."

Um how is that a bad thing? Dont we want them to look into anything that might seem kinda suspicious to help protect us?

Or should we not moniter %$%$%$%$ like we did pre 9-11 and wait till we get wacked again? Do what it takes to keep the citizens safe is all i'm saying. If this helps catch one dirtbag and save lifes i think its worth it.

Nebe · 12-18-2005, 09:56 PM

Skip, go to the library and check out '1984'. If you think what is going on is fine, then you need to read this book.

oh, and just so you know, the US. Goverment, moniters what books you check out too

Skip N · 12-18-2005, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebe

Skip, go to the library and check out '1984'. If you think what is going on is fine, then you need to read this book.

oh, and just so you know, the US. Goverment, moniters what books you check out too

Oh man the goverment might know i like to read about fishing and history....well will this insanity all end!?

beamie · 12-19-2005, 05:00 AM

If I worked for the NSA, CIA, FBI I would have my own filter.........."eels","spots","needle","fifty pounder","lami","plugs"

I'd have everyones secret spot.

Seriously.....I gladly give up some of my "rights" to live in the best country in the world. What did Jack Nickolson say in that movie...."you can't handle the truth". There is allot of secret stuff that all these agencies do, within the law and out of the law, to make our country safer for everyone. I am sure there is many things that you never even here of happening, and that is the way it should be. The media loves to show secrets or little known tactics of these agencies. It is neat to know this info, but once the cat is out of the bag then it no longer works. Best to keep lots of things secret from the common public. Just my .02c

Swimmer · 12-19-2005, 12:43 PM

Almost 300 million legal residents of this country and this spying on suspected terrorist occurred 30 times, 30 times. Oh my Gosh.....

spence · 12-19-2005, 12:49 PM

Well, I believe the President has authorized the program 30 time...not 30 individual wiretaps...

-spence

Skip N · 12-19-2005, 12:51 PM

[QUOTE=Swimmer]Almost 300 million legal residents of this country and this spying on suspected terrorist occurred 30 times, 30 times. Oh my Gosh.....[/QUOTE

Oh but those nice terrosists have had thier privacy vilolated. we cant do that to them its so not right.

Typical anti Bush crowd looking for anything to take him down. this is just thier latest try.

striperman36 · 12-19-2005, 12:56 PM

Hey what about all those fisherman that spy on us to try and find the good spots? I had to buy a new boat to get away from them!!!!!
Are they part of the government conspiracy too?

And how about all them spot burners? Do you think we can get the feds on top o them too?

How about the credit card companies selling you buying habits or our amazon selling the customer activity on their website.

How about the company selling traffic information based on cellphone activity?

We live in an increasingly publicly visible society it's part of the way of life. You can't hide, you can't and be a normal part of society.

MakoMike · 12-19-2005, 04:44 PM

Just to keep things straight, the Patriot Act gave the President the authority to authorize "emergency" wiretaps without a court order. what you guys really should be arguing about is what constitues and "emergency" and do these wiretaps meet that definition.

CTSurf · 12-19-2005, 04:55 PM

You're right Mike but, the problem lies in one's definition of emergency.

The President and the Attorney General both indicated that the calls that are being "tapped" are international calls. The calls are initiated either in a country on the OFAC list or going to those countries.

The Dad Fisherman · 12-20-2005, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Just to keep things straight, the Patriot Act gave the President the authority to authorize "emergency" wiretaps without a court order. what you guys really should be arguing about is what constitues and "emergency" and do these wiretaps meet that definition.

I thought that it gave them the right to do the tap without the court order....but they still had to file for a court order within 72 hours of doing it.

I could be mistaken but that was my understanding.

You are right about trying to define an "Emergency" it opens up a lot of grey area

spence · 12-20-2005, 08:12 AM

I've never heard anyone say the Patriot Act gives this power.

The Administration's case is that the Congressional War Powers vote after 9/11 provided the justification, which is a legal slippery slope and the Congressional Dems strongly refute.

-spence

CTSurf · 12-20-2005, 09:38 AM

The two sources at the beginning of this thread cited a NY Times article by a reporter who has written a book. The reporter admitted to holding the article for one year to be printed at the time his book is released. That is IMO, questionable and self serving.

This same article was referred to by Senators as part of the reason they were voting against the Patriot Act.

If you can't trust the source how can you trust those who refer to it? These Senators complain about loosing civil liberties. Who has lost them? What, if anything, have they lost? I don't mind standing in a longer line at the airport. I think the increased screening is worth the wait.

Ultimately, the question is do we feel safer as a result of having the Patriot Act?

MakoMike · 12-20-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence

I've never heard anyone say the Patriot Act gives this power.

Then you need to read more.

Dad,

Quote:

I thought that it gave them the right to do the tap without the court order....but they still had to file for a court order within 72 hours of doing it.

Yes that's right.