Here it comes........

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Skip N

And why are so many on the left who are opposed to the war in Iraq and want our military outta there so in favor of a draft? If you have a draft that means you'd want more troops in the fight. So they want more troops on the ground but want to pull out of Iraq? If you want to pull out why do you want more troops? That logic makes no sense

Skip; not even close...
As a "lefty" I dont support the war in Iraq, I havent from the begining. However, wanting the draft is different that wanting more troops on the ground....
I was pretty close to draft age when we invaded iraq, I'm a bit outside the range now, however, the people that support the draft (I personally dont) want a more class-free selection of who is fighting and dying for the war.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

Its just tough talking politics on a New England fishing website where 90% of the people are probably Liberal Democrats.

90%

I'd wager less than 10% of the users on this site are genuine "liberal democrats"...

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

And why are so many on the left who are opposed to the war in Iraq and want our military outta there so in favor of a draft?

Because it's not true. Sen. Rangle proposed this as a PR stunt a few years ago and the GOP pundits you blindly follow have used it to whitewash the Democratic party and scare people.

To be fair, there have been many on the left who have used it to scare people as well

But the notion that the left is calling for a draft is simply not true.

Bryan, what you say above is accurate...although when you include the Guard and Reserves it's probably more balanced than it is sometimes presented as...

Though due to recruiting problems, they are lowering standards to include more w/o a high school diploma...and certainly they don't put up as many billboards in affluent areas!

-specne

[Backbeach Jake]

We're seeing the beginning of a civil war in Islam. It was bound to happen, our meddling just sped it up. Two of the words that I used aren't a precise as I would like "meddling" and "civil", but you get what I mean. Sadaamit held all the little factions apart, or killed one side or the other. Kept their heads down, so to speak. We come along without a clue to their culture and they go after one another like they have to catch up. It's gonna get bad and it's gonna spread.

[BigFish]

So in a nutshell...like I said....we should and should have left well enough alone!

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

Yeah its all OUR fault. The muslims would be good solid folks if it wasnt for us damn Amercians. You still didnt mention what your plan for destroying and taking down terroists and terroists states are?

Skippy, if you get fat and your girlfriend tells you are fat...are you going to deny it, or reflect on the things that made you fat and alter your behavior so you don't get more fat?

Doesn't mean you can't have some ice cream, but the pizza and 6 pack dinners have got to go.

I remember reading in the late 1990's how radical Islam was actually on the decline around the world. The main sources of violence in Palestine and Chechnya had more to do with politics than religion.

To destroy terrorists we need to.

A - Lead by example - to spread democracy we need to abide by the rule of law ourselves, respect the dignity of human life and operate transparently and honestly as much as possible...to both the world and the American people.

B - Strive toward energy independence and a balanced budget to limit the influence of nations like Saudia Arabia and others.

C - Develop global coalitions to strengthen a unified position. China and Russia currently have more to gain from Iran's current leadership than if we initiated reform through military force.

D - When we do get a line on real terrorists, let the bullets fly.

The simple fact is that mass bombing and actions that seem to randomly dehumanize will create a net gain in the terrorist population. We need to extinguish the fire by cutting off the oxygen instead of fanning the flames...

Given the wheels that are in motion right now, Mike P may just be right...hold on.

-spence

[Backbeach Jake]

Originally Posted by BigFish

So in a nutshell...like I said....we should and should have left well enough alone!

We just kicked this turd open, shoulda left Iraq the hell alone until they actually did us harm. Now the stink is overwhelming us. We shoulda kept our focus in Afghanistan. They did do us harm. The real pity is the cheapness of life in this whole mess.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

A key belief among neoconservatives is that:

1. American values are universal (very Wilsonian)
2. As the World super power, it's the duty of the USA to spread democracy by removing tyrants and despotic regiemes
3. The pre-emptive use of force is justified to solve these problems

So to the neocon's, oppressed people want us to use force if it will bring them freedom, and as Americans it's our duty to do so!

Unfortunately, it's not a very worldly viewpoint and has led to the absurd and reckless assumptions and manipulation that have screwed everything up.

-spence

Categorizing anyone who who does not embrace the Liberal agenda as "NeoCons" who adhere to these "key beliefs" is just one of the countless reasons why a Liberal cant be elected to the Presidency. Keep up the good work for the GOP.

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Categorizing anyone who who does not embrace the Liberal agenda as "NeoCons" who adhere to these "key beliefs" is just one of the countless reasons why a Liberal cant be elected to the Presidency. Keep up the good work for the GOP.

I didn't catagorize anybody, but if the shoe fits...

-spence

[mekcotuit]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Categorizing anyone who who does not embrace the Liberal agenda as "NeoCons" who adhere to these "key beliefs" is just one of the countless reasons why a Liberal cant be elected to the Presidency. Keep up the good work for the GOP.

I don't think Spence is labelling all conservatives or Republicans as neocons. Neocon is different animal: Cheney family, Kristol family, Paul Wolfowitz, Norman Podhoretz, Elliot Abrams, Robert Kagan, Richard Perle, Doug Feith- the foreign policy makers in the Bush admin.

from: http://alternet.org/story/15481/"Contrary to appearances, the neoconservatives do not represent a political movement, but a small, exclusive club with incestuous familial and personal connections. Neoconservatives are former liberals (which explains the "neo" prefix) who advocate an aggressive unilateralist vision of U.S. global supremacy, which includes a close strategic alliance with Israel. "

[spence]

I don't think the "former liberal" description is that accurate, though I've seen it thrown around.

For sure some of the "early" neoconservative thinkers were former socialists, but the current crop were more intellectual conservatives that rejected the liberalisim of the Vietnam war.

Funny thing is that so many Goldwater and Reagan conservatives (including perhaps Bush 43) are just now realizing that they've been duped into aligning themselves with the neoconservatives simply because they saw liberal democrats as the only other alternative.

There is a tremendous number of disenfranchised moderates out there looking for leadership.

-spence

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

There is a tremendous number of disenfranchised moderates out there looking for leadership.

Yup.... But if I could rephrase your phrase to "There is a tremendous number of disenfranchised Americans out there looking for new Leadership for the future of America."

[spence]

On that I would agree

-spence

[Backbeach Jake]

That's pretty much it in the nutshell, Boss. Sometimes, it seems no one is at the wheel. Other times, those who are seem intoxicated. I have a real hard time feeling optimistic about this Country's future.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Yup.... But if I could rephrase your phrase to "There is a tremendous number of disenfranchised Americans out there looking for new Leadership for the future of America."

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

That's pretty much it in the nutshell, Boss. Sometimes, it seems no one is at the wheel. Other times, those who are seem intoxicated. I have a real hard time feeling optimistic about this Country's future.

The only reason I am optimistic is because of how many people fit into JohnR's description of a what is becoming a larger and larger number of people in this country. All we need is someone with the ability to truly lead and inspire the nation again, in a way that doesn't alienate so many people on both sides of the middle.

Someone needs to step up and run with a platform like this. Not an extreme liberal or conservative, just logical leadership with an eye towards the future growth, strength, and health of America as well as a better global perspective of how our actions worldwide effect us here at home both in the near future and long term.

[Nebe]

hey here is a noble idea. get our troups out of the middle east, support pallestine's quest to achieve the respect they deserve, stop f-ing with other countries squabbles, get off saudi oil, and guess what.

There will be little to no terrorism.

This isnt rocket science.

[Skitterpop]

Nebe for president!

Now what about Malaysia, North Korea, and China?

What the hell....Canada is starting to look pretty gloomy as well.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by Nebe

hey here is a noble idea. get our troups out of the middle east, support pallestine's quest to achieve the respect they deserve, stop f-ing with other countries squabbles, get off saudi oil, and guess what.

There will be little to no terrorism.

This isnt rocket science.

If only it were that simple.

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [i.e. non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Sura 8.37)

"Muster against them [i.e. non-Muslims] all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them who are unknown to you but known to Allah." (Sura 8.60)

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal harshly with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." (Sura 9.73)

"When We resolve to raze a city, We first give warning to those of its people who live in comfort. If they persist in sin, judgement is irrevocably passed, and We destroy it utterly." (Sura 17.16-17)

"We have destroyed many a sinful nation and replaced them by other men. And when they felt Our Might they took to their heels and fled. They were told: 'Do not run away. Return to your comforts and to your dwellings. You shall be questioned all.' 'Woe betide us, we have done wrong' was their reply. And this they kept repeating until We mowed them down and put out their light." (Sura 21.11-15)

[Nebe]

oh yeah.. one more thing to solve all problems-

ABOLISH RELIGION.

world peace will only be achieved when we all can find inner peace

[Raven]

just looking at another mans wife
without a full covering is a sin
sex is a sin
everythings a sin
screw them and there sins
sin this

[Raven]

are you gonna hold S_B meditation classes at your house?

[Skitterpop]

to drop the big one now?

[Nebe]

dont worry. Iran is working on it.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

We just kicked this turd open, shoulda left Iraq the hell alone until they actually did us harm. Now the stink is overwhelming us. We shoulda kept our focus in Afghanistan. They did do us harm. The real pity is the cheapness of life in this whole mess.

Wait till they did us harm huh? So you want to wait for more 9/11's before we act? Wow, thats some scary thinking Like i said...Pre 9/11 thinking so many on the left have. And its down right scary.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Indanite

to drop the big one now?

Nope! But Nebe would be rather upset that his muslim friends could be injured. We should drop flowers not bombs. We must be nice to them and they will be nice to us. According to Nebe its that simple. It has nothing to do with radical brain washed muslims. no thats not the problem. The problem is the US is not nice enough to Osama and his buddies. Ahhh dont ya just love how the left thinks

[Skitterpop]

we are brainwashed to but not as inspired as them

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Indanite

we are brainwashed to but not as inspired as them

We dont go around slitting each others throats and strapping bombs to our chest in the name of Allah. Ahhh Islam, the religion of peace! And alot of you guys think you can reason with these nuts. I wish we could reason with them but that aint gonna happen anytime soon. They are beyond reason.

[Skitterpop]

You crazy bastage



I don`t think they teach my grandson that all Muslims are the devil and the way to heaven is to kill as many as possible.

Something has to be done and it won`t be pretty.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Indanite

You crazy bastage



I don`t think they teach my grandson that all Muslims are the devil and the way to heaven is to kill as many as possible.

Something has to be done and it won`t be pretty.

Iran has a death wish if they keep up thier crap..... Many people dont know but alot of the middle east Muslim countries backed the nazis during WWII. There was even a branch of the SS made up of foriegn muslims towards the end of the war. They supported the nazis 60 years ago and they are the new nazis today. These folks dont have a very good track record making peace.....