Old techniques vs. New tactics

[Krispy]

How much effort do you spend in learning new tactics versus using/learning already successful techniques?

I see alot of money going into the "hot topics" of the month, even specialized rods and reels. How much faith is worth inve$ting in certain tactics over tried and true methods. Its seems to be more striking in the surfcasting segment than with boaters, that in 50 years of modern SB fishing, not much has changed in how or what is used to catch cow bass.

Do you think there will be a new angle to catching cows, that hasnt already been discovered?

[likwid]

You mean like the Saltwater Sportsman article about the guy using the revolutionary massive bunker spoons?

Reinventing the wheel indeed.

[Joe]

Its ok to be a skeptic - just so long as you're not a closed-minded one.

Some of it is fluff to be sure - but not everything. Surfcasters seem to be in two camps: one that follows every trend and another that refuses to budge - regardless of the facts.

What was that Crazy Alberto line?
"Always keep your mind open to new techniques and methods."

[striprman]

Depends on where you go I suppose. If you caught them there with "traditional" methods, why try something different ? Time of year, tide, local baitfish and other factors may influence how certain locations are "fished" but when certain spots are known to produce on traditional methods, thats what I stick with.

[Rockport24]

I'm pretty much a newbie, so I try not to get caught up in the "hot new" trends and I am concentrating on the tried and true. Gotta learn to walk before you learn to run..etc. There are so many damn "tried and true" methods though that sometimes I think I'll never learn them all and I probably won't. That said, when surfmasters I trust (like you dudes on this site) come out and praise a new method (such as the mightly rigged sluggo), I listen and go home and rig sluggos

[Skitterpop]

who told you what I`ve been thinking

[Joe]

Videos are very convincing.

[Krispy]

Rigged Sluggos are good example.
A newer product, that uses new tactics, that can use specialized rods that one wouldnt normally use with older techniques. Has had moderate cow success in the surf to date.
VS.
Live eels or rigged eels that have caught countless trophy bass over the decades.
Where/why would you invest time/$ in one over the other?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Krispy

Rigged Sluggos are good example.
A newer product, that uses new tactics, that can use specialized rods that one wouldnt normally use with older techniques. Has had moderate cow success in the surf to date.
VS.
Live eels or rigged eels that have caught countless trophy bass over the decades.
Where/why would you invest time/$ in one over the other?

I think sluggos are an easy option, live or rigged eels require more time and thought, they are'nt just there in your bag along with plugs. But I don't think sluggos are the same as eels either...

[Joe]

I'm not sure soft plastics are a good example of a hype product. Because it ain't hype. I'd say its more of an evolution.
They weigh at close to 2oz - so a moderate plug rod can throw one -most people have a rod with a 2oz sweet spot.
You don't need any special reel.
They come in a host of different colors and patterns.
They don't stink, or rot, or die. So you can stick them in your pocket and not have to worry about forgetting them and ruining a wading coat.
Their cheap enough to throw in boulder field.
You can present them with a lot of action.
The baitshop does not need to be open and you don't have to worry about looking into a tank full of shoestrings.
In the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, they will outfish almost anything.

[likwid]

And there's times when Bass are on something and will straight up ignore eels or rubbah.

Seen it happen enough times.

My father has a story about fishing bass working flats somewhere and the only thing that actually turned them after throwing the kitchen sink at them was

an Al's goldfish.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Joe

I'm not sure soft plastics are a good example of a hype product. Because it ain't hype. I'd say its more of an evolution.
They weigh at close to 2oz - so a moderate plug rod can throw one -most people have a rod with a 2oz sweet spot.
You don't need any special reel.
They come in a host of different colors and patterns.
They don't stink, or rot, or die. So you can stick them in your pocket and not have to worry about forgetting them and ruining a wading coat.
Their cheap enough to throw in boulder field.
You can present them with a lot of action.
The baitshop does not need to be open and you don't have to worry about looking into a tank full of shoestrings.
In the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, they will outfish almost anything.

Someone has been drinking McKenna's coolaid.

[Joe]

Ahh to be a critic - how I envy you....

[Nebe]

I'll add my 19 cents.. last spring i fished only wood & i did pretty good.. summer, i used eels did alright.. then in the fall i fished sluggos...man oh man.. i did so well with the sluggo's i will hardly use wood this year. Of course i wont be using sluggo's anymore, but i am sold on the soft plastic way of thinking.

ASk Nib about how i took him to cow country... he was plugging and i was pitching rubber..

Rubber is where its at... be it, sluggo, real-eels, ronz, ultimus.. and yes, even mine

[Krispy]

Originally Posted by Joe

I'm not sure soft plastics are a good example of a hype product. Because it ain't hype. I'd say its more of an evolution.
They weigh at close to 2oz - so a moderate plug rod can throw one -most people have a rod with a 2oz sweet spot.
You don't need any special reel.
They come in a host of different colors and patterns.
They don't stink, or rot, or die. So you can stick them in your pocket and not have to worry about forgetting them and ruining a wading coat.
Their cheap enough to throw in boulder field.
You can present them with a lot of action.
The baitshop does not need to be open and you don't have to worry about looking into a tank full of shoestrings.
In the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, they will outfish almost anything.

Thats more about convenience, than anything else Joe. I dont find eels much trouble to keep either.
And other than some "nice bass" I personally havent heard of any genuine cows taken on that style plastics.
Maybe the Storm plastics have really changed how some fishing styles are done in the canal or spring fisheries, but again I havent heard anything regarding size.
What about topwater spook type plugs? Its been popular in the salt for a few years and catches some fish, but how is it comparatively to other large bodied plugs that proved themselves through previous generations.

[Krispy]

Eben, if your seriously suggesting rubber eels outfish the real thing, ya need to get yer head outta the oven

[Nebe]

there is no question eels are better, but i just dont feel right killing something that could possibly go on the endangered species list. Also, i dont fish them enough to really feel confident with them. I hate keeping them alive, and i hate it when they die on me. call me a tree hugger i guess.

every fish over 30 lbs i have caught has come off of needlefish... this season, should be interesting to see which item works better for me. I'll share my results, as i dont play the 'bait and switch' with what plug i catch on...

[Joe]

You know who just bought a bunch of tin squid heads off me to use with plastics?
Al Benson.

[Krispy]

not the same Benson?

[piemma]

Al benson, for those who don't know him, is one of the "old guard" from the SoCo area. he had 4 fish over 50 in one night last year. YES!!!! 4 Bass over 50 lbs in one night in May I believe last year

[zacs]

Originally Posted by Krispy

And other than some "nice bass" I personally havent heard of any genuine cows taken on that style plastics.

Didn't Leo win the MV derby last year with a sluggo?

[Joe]

Eeek I spelled Al's last name wrong...It's Bentsen
Sorry Al....
This is from Secrets Of Surfcasting At Night

Most people consider Al the best rigged eel fisherman to date...

[CANAL RAT]

plugs,rubbah and wood work well but live or fresh dead bait will always be best.

[Krispy]

Musta been a bad joke.. I know who Al Bensten is and his accomplishments. I follow his rigged eel article.
But mentioning his name in this thread in regard to rubber eel supplies harkens back to the great "blue needlefish hysteria" of '03, all hype

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Krispy

not the same Benson?

You're firing on all cylinders Krispy.

[Rappin Mikey]

Dace and Big Pond shiners worked for me today. Felt nice using the old live well again.

[striprman]

can you post the rest of that article ?

[Sea Dangles]

[QUOTE=Nebe]I'll add my 19 cents.. last spring i fished only wood & i did pretty good.. summer, i used eels did alright.. then in the fall i fished sluggos...man oh man.. i did so well with the sluggo's i will....
This is where I get confused because in the next post,"there's no question eels outfish..."it seems contradictory.I'm sure Eben is being honest about his success with rubber.Steve's success has certainly been well documented also and he stands nothing to gain financially so his credibility can't be questioned.I've also seen footage on Joe's site of Steve's cow which he himself equated to some kind of horseshoe in a dark,smelly area.
My concern is,how many people want to cast and retrieve all night with the frequency and speed that has been recommended.Cast,reel fast and twitch,cast again.Steve does this with an 8'6" stick because he is an angler that's been there before and knows he can battle big momma.Most R.I. surfcasters use big,long,beefy sticks to control the cow they dream of being on the other end of their line.After an hour of this method I predict the enthusiasm will diminish.
I don't think this well promoted rubber hype will stand the test of time.I also don't consider it to be a"big fish"bait.It will not replace the allure of swimming a Danny,Needle,darter or certainly the live eel.Close your eyes,reel slow,hold on.Rubber? occasionally.

[Joe]

Strange thing is, for years there were a lot of products floating around that made false claims - that sucked, essentially. Here we got one that works - so rather than accept it, we create new arguments. We look for something wrong.

Here's the thing though - if I wanted to lie to promote and sell something that does work for the sake of my own pocket lining - I could do that very easily. Why would I do that when there are so many things that work? Ripping people off is the domain of the lazy and the unimaginative.

Tradition and change are not at odds with each other. I'll be doing other things that preserve the traditions of the last century, which perpetuate the methods of the past.

[Krispy]

Whoah Joe,
nobody came close to claiming you were ripping anyone off or that sluggos are not a fish catching item. Everyone knows SRI has the highest integrity here.
What happens is a snowball effect, a new product catches, someone makes a note worthy catch, people are talking about it, more discussions and before you know it, its like the only thing that catches anymore.
And its not and this thread was not, directed solely at any one product. Merely a question of what the value is in placing faith in new lures over time tested ones. Sluggos/eels, spooks/dannys, storms/jigs etc.