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Old 07-12-2006, 06:53 PM   #1
stripersnipr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY
Dude, rockets are regularly, randomly shot at Isreal neighborhoods, soliders were kidnapped and held for randsom.......you think Isreal is the aggressor???????? A government has no other duty that to protect its people, thats what they are doing. And no, Im not Jewish, something that I was accused of out here before...
Seems we hear very little about the aggression against Israel only outrage when they retaliate. Come to think about it, it's kind of like Iraq. A quick blurb about kidnapping/torture/beheading of our soldiers but shrill outrage over panties on the head of a terrorist.

Go Israel.
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:15 PM   #2
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There's no way to justify the seemingly random terror attacks that Isreal has...

That being said, their actions have often been over the top.

An objective person looks to where the power is, and tries to stay objective.

It's all relative.

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Old 07-13-2006, 08:10 AM   #3
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sooo, Isreal pulled out of gaza, demolished jewish settlers houses, had the miltary pull civilains from their own homes and kept EVERY promise they made.

Over the top? Maybe to their own people, when are the Palesinians going to do someting....anything, other than provoke and kill???
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Old 07-13-2006, 08:13 AM   #4
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Completion of Israel's unilateral disengagement plan. Israel removes all Jewish settlements and military equipment from the disputed territory of the Gaza Strip, ending its control of the area taken from Egypt as a result of the Six-Day War of 1967.
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Old 07-13-2006, 08:17 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by RIJIMMY
Maybe to their own people, when are the Palesinians going to do someting....anything, other than provoke and kill???
I think the important point you're missing is that for the most part the Palestenian people are completely disenfranchised.

It's not a level playing field, which contributes a lot to the use of terror...a leveling force.

The notion that Isreal's %$%$%$%$ has never stunk is pretty absurd...but as I indicated earlier...there's plenty of blame on both sides.

Looks like the situation is getting worse today...a dangerous game being played for sure.

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Old 07-13-2006, 08:19 AM   #6
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Didnt say that, but they are at least trying, with NO support from Arab countries
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Old 07-13-2006, 09:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
I think the important point you're missing is that for the most part the Palestenian people are completely disenfranchised.

It's not a level playing field, which contributes a lot to the use of terror...a leveling force.

The notion that Isreal's %$%$%$%$ has never stunk is pretty absurd...but as I indicated earlier...there's plenty of blame on both sides.

Looks like the situation is getting worse today...a dangerous game being played for sure.

-spence
If the playing field was level, Israel would be wiped off the face of the map.
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Old 07-13-2006, 11:37 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by spence
I think the important point you're missing is that for the most part the Palestenian people are completely disenfranchised.
Sure you got the right word there Spence? If I'm not mistaken they recently used their franchise to elect a Hezbolla government.

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Old 07-13-2006, 11:48 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by MakoMike
Sure you got the right word there Spence? If I'm not mistaken they recently used their franchise to elect a Hezbolla government.
Yes, it's the right word...the elections were only recently, hence the conditional "for the most part".

And I believe there were some Hizbolla members elected along with Hamas, just not as many.

The key of course is that the people are looking for stability. I don't believe they elected Hamas as an endorsement of terrorisim, but rather Hamas was simply less corrupt than the PLO! The non-militant wings of these parties are a major provider of basic services to many people over there...

This isn't a good vs evil debate as much as some would like you to believe...fundamentally it's about humans dealing with reality, which is quite nuanced anyway you slice it. A child blown up by a homicide bomber, or an errant IDF strike doesn't really care what was motivating the violence.

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Old 07-13-2006, 11:40 AM   #10
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uh hem


Israel bombards Beirut amid spiraling attacks




Thursday, July 13, 2006; Posted: 12:04 p.m. EDT (16:04 GMT)

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BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Israel's warplanes bombed Beirut's international airport and its navy blockaded Lebanon's ports in a sharp escalation of a military campaign Thursday.



Hezbollah guerrillas fired scores of rockets from Lebanon into northern Israel in the most intense bombardment in years.
Some 45 people and two soldiers have been killed inside Lebanon since Wednesday, the country's health ministry said, while the rocket attacks killed at least one woman in Israel.
Beirut's Rafik Hariri International Airport was forced to close after Israeli fighter jets hit all three of its runways, leaving huge craters that made them unusable.
Two other Lebanese airports were attacked Thursday morning, the Israel Defense Forces said.
The IDF gave no details, but Lebanese army sources said that the Rayak Air Base in the Bekaa Valley near the Syrian border had been hit as well as a small military airport in Qulayaat in northern Lebanon.
Israel said it targeted the international airport in the capital's suburbs because it was a transfer point for weapons and supplies to Hezbollah, the militant group that captured two Israeli soldiers and killed eight others in raids this week.
Lebanese Interior Minister Ahmed Fatfat called the airport strikes a "general act of war," saying they had nothing to do with Hezbollah but were instead an attack against the country's "economic interests," especially its tourism industry. All Beirut-bound flights are having to be diverted.
Lebanese Information Minister Ghazi Aridi called for a comprehensive cease-fire, saying the Lebanese government had nothing to do with the Hezbollah attacks.
After Israel's airport strike, planes began dropping leaflets warning residents of an impending attack on an area of southern Beirut where Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah is believed to live. (Watch initial reports on the runway bombings -- 6:00)
If such a strike happened, Hezbollah said it would attack the northern Israeli city of Haifa, where 300,000 people live.
The U.S. Navy moved a small military tug out of Haifa after the threat.
Israel: 'We mean business'

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said Thursday he fears a "regional war is mounting" with Israel's military campaigns in Lebanon and Gaza, where forces were deployed after last month's capture of an Israeli soldier.
"This is not our interest and will not bring peace and stability to the region," Abbas said, referring to "this [Israeli] aggression."
President Bush said all countries had a right to defend themselves butwarned Israel to take care not to "weaken" Lebanon's government.
Bush also stressed during a visit to Germany that Syria "needs to be held to account."
Hezbollah enjoys substantial backing from Syria and Iran and is considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel. The group holds posts in Lebanon's government.
Israeli Security Cabinet Minister Isaac Herzog said: "We are taking strong measures so that it will be clear to the Lebanese people and government ... that we mean business."
The United Nations will send a team to the Middle East to urge both sides to use restraint, a spokesman for Secretary-General Kofi Annan said Thursday.
Captives named

Israeli airstrikes were aimed at targets used by Hezbollah for storing weapons, the IDF said.
Warplanes also hit al-Manar television station because Hezbollah uses it to incite and recruit activists, the IDF said. A broadcast tower was destroyed and three people injured, but the station was able to continue broadcasting, al-Manar editor Ibrahim Moussawi said.
Israel's Cabinet authorized a "severe and harsh" response to the abduction of the two soldiers, named Thursday as Ehud Goldvasser, 31, from Nahariya, and Eldad Regev, 26, from the Haifa suburb of Kiryat Motzkin.
Hezbollah called for a prisoner exchange but, as in Gaza, Israel has rejected the call.
Hezbollah chief Nasrallah told reporters that seizing the soldiers was "our natural, only and logical right" to win freedom for Hezbollah prisoners held by Israel.
Nasrallah said the two soldiers had been taken to a place "far, far away" and that an Israeli military campaign would not win their release.
More than 70 Katyusha rockets have hit Israel in the past 24 hours, the IDF said.
Missiles critically injured one person and hurt at least 10 others in Safed, about 13 miles (20 kilometers) from the Lebanese border, which local officials said not been hit by Hezbollah rockets since 1972. (Watch the rocket's explosion and town chaos -- 1:45)
Also in northern Israel, a woman was killed and 15 people hurt in a rocket attack in Nahariya, and at least 38 people were injured when rockets hit the Arab village of Carmiel, Israeli ambulance services said.
CNN's Barbara Starr and John Vause and journalist Anthony Mills in Beirut contributed to this report.

Good health and family
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Old 07-13-2006, 12:17 PM   #11
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the two sides have been fighting since before the birth of Christ.
however...the UN and the EU almost always lay the blame for these things right in the lap of Isreal. its like being an older brother and having a little brother who is always causing trouble. you smack the kid down when he's doing something wrong and mom and dad tell you that its your fault for hitting him. puhlease...the terrorist groups are enabled by the left and their sympathic view points towards them, and their blantent hatred for Isreal.

in case anyone hasn't noticed, Europe is a pretty anti-semetic place these days.
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Old 07-13-2006, 12:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clambelly
...the terrorist groups are enabled by the left and their sympathic view points towards them, and their blantent hatred for Isreal.
Which doesn't exactly explain why the vast majority of Jews traditionally vote Democratic now does it?

-spence
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Old 07-13-2006, 12:31 PM   #13
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Is

Rockhoppingmike using different sign on names

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Old 07-13-2006, 04:16 PM   #14
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Exclamation retribution!

Quote:
US vetoes UN resolution urging end to Israeli attacks in Gaza
Jul 13 3:50 PM US/Eastern


The United States vetoed a UN draft resolution that would have called for an end to Israeli attacks and "disproportionate use of force" in the Gaza Strip as well as for the release of a kidnapped Israeli soldier.

The Security Council resolution received 10 votes, one against from the United States with four abstentions, French Ambassador Jean-Marc de la Sabliere, the council president for July, announced.



Explaining his negative vote, US Ambassador John Bolton described the text as "unbalanced" and was "not only untimely but also outmoded" because of the attacks against Israel by Lebanese Hezbollah militants and UN chief Kofi Annan's decision to send a crisis team to the region.

He said adoption of the resolution would have exacerbated tensions in the region and would have undermined "our vision of two democratic states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security."

The United States, Israel's staunchest ally, last used its veto in the Security Council in October 2004, to block a similar draft demanding that Israel end all military operations in northern Gaza and withdraw from the area.
hmm...seems i said something to this effect a little earlier today...


Quote:
Originally Posted by clambelly
the UN and the EU almost always lay the blame for these things right in the lap of Isreal. its like being an older brother and having a little brother who is always causing trouble. you smack the kid down when he's doing something wrong and mom and dad tell you that its your fault for hitting him.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:01 PM   #15
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hmm...seems i said something to this effect a little earlier today...
Not really, the resolution is saying that Israel's actions are potentially reckless and may cause unecessary instability...not that they are entirely to blame for the situation.

Regardless, the US needs to step in here and show some leadership. Freaking planet is going to hell in a handbasket and Bush is running blind

-spence
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:07 PM   #16
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:13 PM   #17
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!!



-spence
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:18 PM   #18
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Old 07-14-2006, 07:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by spence
.

Regardless, the US needs to step in here and show some leadership. Freaking planet is going to hell in a handbasket and Bush is running blind

-spence
Spence, isnt that what you constantly refer to as US "meddling"?
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Old 07-14-2006, 08:54 AM   #20
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Spence, isnt that what you constantly refer to as US "meddling"?
No. Open diplomacy isn't the same as aiding anti-communist coups or proping up sympathetic and brutal regimes.

-spence
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Old 07-14-2006, 07:59 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Not really, the resolution is saying that Israel's actions are potentially reckless and may cause unecessary instability...not that they are entirely to blame for the situation.

Regardless, the US needs to step in here and show some leadership. Freaking planet is going to hell in a handbasket and Bush is running blind

-spence
Souinds like ad hominem fragments and regurgitated partisan whackery.
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Old 07-14-2006, 08:24 AM   #22
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Most of this thread is not discussion but oneupmanship and personal attacks....myself included


I have never wondered why different countries with different religions or politics could`nt get along....seeing how most families cannot attain a sensible peace on such a lesser scale.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If this conflict in the Middle East gets to where Iran and Syria are actively involved that will be a hurricane of destruction.

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Old 07-14-2006, 08:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Skitterpop
Most of this thread is not discussion but oneupmanship and personal attacks....myself included


I have never wondered why different countries with different religions or politics could`nt get along....seeing how most families cannot attain a sensible peace on such a lesser scale.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If this conflict in the Middle East gets to where Iran and Syria are actively involved that will be a hurricane of destruction.



I know my posts are most DEFINITELY not personal. I am an independent conservative. I am having beers tonight with a Bush supporter and two raging democratic liberals... I like nothing more than debating and the free flow of ideas. I generally do less of it during the fishing season, but sometimes with hot-button issues I can't resist. Spence's posts are always well though out and insightful, the guy knows his stuff. He is clearly wrong.... but intelligent and eloquent nonetheless.
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