Is It Time for Conservation

[Karl F]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

May I offer a few "anecdotal" observations.

Seals
Colder water inshore than off
No bait
the distance offshore to find fish is not that great, 1/4 to 1/2 mile.
Beach closures equal lack of fishing pressure
30 miles east of Chatham the water is 64 degrees no way that just off the beach and bass and bluefish are out that far
The bait is out there
Global warming is a reality and the climate changes produced as a result are starting to affect New England.
Gas prices limiting excursions over 30 miles by most
It's getting near the dog days and the historical "doldrums" of summer.
Get a boat.

Hope that helps.

And thats a Fact, Jack.

[DZ]

It’s always been time for conservation. The Striped bass fishing community as a whole has dropped the ball. You look at any large, popular fishery such as snook, redfish, freshwater trout and bass, etc, and you see what a real catch and release fishery should be. These fish are respected and large kills of these species by REC fishermen are looked down upon by their peers. The striped bass fishery in the Northeast has never gotten out of the tradition of bringing big fish to scale. We almost did after the swoon of the 1970/80s but keeping large fish has become in vogue again. We can’t condemn commercial fishermen as they take only a fraction of what recreational fishermen keep on a regular basis. And you can’t change the commercial mindset as $$$ controls their conscience and in some cases their livelihood. I know what its like to sell bass, I did it before the swoon changed my ways. I hated the feeling when I dropped a nice fish, it changed from losing a 30 pound fish to losing $60.

It’s the recreational mind set that needs to be changed. Police yourselves and your friends. Limit your kill, don’t kill your limit.

I’m a staunch advocate of C&R of large bass (over 30). If you want to keep a fish for the table - a 12-18 lb fish is perfect.

I look at the some of the sharpies that have caught multiple 40s/50s this season – now why would you want to keep any other 50s if you’ve already killed one for the wall? Striped Bass has always been an “ego” fishery, get away from the idea that someone needs to see you weigh in a big girl for ego gratification and then you’ll find it easier to release them. Again, I know, I’ve been there. The C&R of a real cow is gratification that can’t be described and you’ll own that memory forever.

Big Bass fishing from the beach hasn’t been that great anywhere the past few years. You have isolated instances of good fishing but just because fishing is good in one location doesn’t mean the whole coast is lit up. Seals may have screwed up the cape beaches but they’re not the reason other locations are slow.

As Flap says, the bass are there if you have a boat and they’ve never been easier to catch than now. Today’s electronics can put you on a hotspot day after day – and electronics are a great equalizer for those that lack skill and/or experience – drop a live bait on a good set of numbers and hang on - the fish don’t stand a chance.

Here is what I would consider a good policy for the recreational striped bass community on C&R: Set a milestone such as 20, 30, 40, or 50 pounds, keep your first bass at that level, release all others until you either break your personal best or reach your next milestone. If you’re in a fishing club push for allowing Catch, Weigh and Release for the club contest. This will allow members fortunate enough to catch a cow to then enter it into the contest after weighing it, then releasing it alive. How good is that! Only draw back is you have to be with someone who will witness the weight. This rule has allowed many cows to swim again in my club contest.

[RIJIMMY]

Good Post DZ - "Set a milestone such as 20, 30, 40, or 50 pounds, keep your first bass at that level, release all others until you either break your personal best or reach your next milestone"

Thats basically my philosophy . First fish at those weights, a handful of pics for the memories, some fillets for friends and I will be happy until the 40 comes along

[MrHunters]

don't have to worry about me... i don't catch keepers.

[Zeno]

I read with interest the posts regarding OTW Cup ,conservation and other treads regarding (usually) bragging rights each day.Is something that we don't see much in NY ,guys discussing their catch in online forums .At least not to the extend I see here.Not that there is anything wrong with it.......

my curiosity is peeked by something else ,closely related to the subject
I am curios if there are differences in conservation ethics between NY and other anglers in northeast ,most notably NE and NJ.
I tabulate entries for a year long contest that 16 NY surf fishing clubs participate in .The contest is based on honor system in order to encourage catch and release.Fish are almost never killed for the contest itself ,as a little wood plaque on the end of the year is hardly worth a life of a cow bass.
My club (High Hill Striper Club) releases about 99% of the fish each year.Maybe we keep one or two that is in bad shape or cant be revived.Other clubs have similar conservation guidelines and killing fish is (although not forbidden ) is not encouraged.Even my wider circle of fishing friends ,those not affiliated with the clubs ,rarely take a fish home.
If you ever stood along the hundreds shoulder to should in fall Montauk blitzes you would see that not to many fish are laying on the rocks after blitz commences.
Is it not surprising then that a NY entree in OTW thingy is nowhere to be found.
I know my friends would be dead set against any contest or gathering were they must kill fish,regardless if the prize is a boat or a pot of gold.Maybe because our local legend and one of the best known striped bass conservationist ,Fred Schwab is a member of my club ,that we are so anal about conservation.
But I am curios...is this kind of sentiment prevalent in RI & MA ?

[choggieman]

The day the bulk of the fishermen here in the northeast realize that the so called "fame" associated with the taking of a large bass and parading it around is severely detrimental to the fishery, will be the day things change for the better. As a community, we celebrate those that slay the big fish and worship them. If a catch of a fish can garner this type of celebrity status, most will take the route of kill and show. If we make it known that the true fisherman look down upon such acts of killing these oversized fish, maybe then we will turn the corner. We need to celebrate those that catch, photograph and release a big girl, and condemn those that kill, parade and fillet them.

[spence]

I didn't even read DZ's post but I agree with what he said

-spence

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by DZ

It’s always been time for conservation. The Striped bass fishing community as a whole has dropped the ball. You look at any large, popular fishery such as snook, redfish, freshwater trout and bass, etc, and you see what a real catch and release fishery should be. These fish are respected and large kills of these species by REC fishermen are looked down upon by their peers. The striped bass fishery in the Northeast has never gotten out of the tradition of bringing big fish to scale. We almost did after the swoon of the 1970/80s but keeping large fish has become in vogue again. We can’t condemn commercial fishermen as they take only a fraction of what recreational fishermen keep on a regular basis. And you can’t change the commercial mindset as $$$ controls their conscience and in some cases their livelihood. I know what its like to sell bass, I did it before the swoon changed my ways. I hated the feeling when I dropped a nice fish, it changed from losing a 30 pound fish to losing $60.

It’s the recreational mind set that needs to be changed. Police yourselves and your friends. Limit your kill, don’t kill your limit.

I’m a staunch advocate of C&R of large bass (over 30). If you want to keep a fish for the table - a 12-18 lb fish is perfect.

I look at the some of the sharpies that have caught multiple 40s/50s this season – now why would you want to keep any other 50s if you’ve already killed one for the wall? Striped Bass has always been an “ego” fishery, get away from the idea that someone needs to see you weigh in a big girl for ego gratification and then you’ll find it easier to release them. Again, I know, I’ve been there. The C&R of a real cow is gratification that can’t be described and you’ll own that memory forever.

Big Bass fishing from the beach hasn’t been that great anywhere the past few years. You have isolated instances of good fishing but just because fishing is good in one location doesn’t mean the whole coast is lit up. Seals may have screwed up the cape beaches but they’re not the reason other locations are slow.

As Flap says, the bass are there if you have a boat and they’ve never been easier to catch than now. Today’s electronics can put you on a hotspot day after day – and electronics are a great equalizer for those that lack skill and/or experience – drop a live bait on a good set of numbers and hang on - the fish don’t stand a chance.

Here is what I would consider a good policy for the recreational striped bass community on C&R: Set a milestone such as 20, 30, 40, or 50 pounds, keep your first bass at that level, release all others until you either break your personal best or reach your next milestone. If you’re in a fishing club push for allowing Catch, Weigh and Release for the club contest. This will allow members fortunate enough to catch a cow to then enter it into the contest after weighing it, then releasing it alive. How good is that! Only draw back is you have to be with someone who will witness the weight. This rule has allowed many cows to swim again in my club contest.

Very good points and suggestions, DZ. However, I disagree with your suggestion that this is a "catch and release" fishery and we somehow dropped the ball. The fishery is actually one of the greatest stories ever of conservation efforts gone right in fisheries management. Despite all of the different user groups and philosophies,most fish that are taken go to the table in some shape or form. (New England tradition like the cod, lobster and Red Sox). As for the catch and release of the other species, everyone knows that only trolls and gnomes eat freshwater fish.That's why they get thrown back.

[Clammer]

B/B

as the [old days ]

people are stating ==this is the best they have seen === well ><>< In the eyes of the beholder ;;;

Do you have any idea how many fish were caught [[BEFORE}
think about it === the gear .both fishing & electronic.s were primitive compared todays ;;;

we fished for years with no depth/fish finder == GPS didn,t exist =ranges were the way /or the nit wits dropped markers // & yes we were screwed when we couldn,t see the ranges ;;;

back then there was no closed commercial season & every state had a 16" limit except Maryland which was 12"

Now we have all different size limits / & slots /no slots . commercial /no commercial /closed // open
special sizes for special fishing // I believe & may be mistaking that the trap commercial size is smaller than R&R & Maryland still has a smaller size ;;;

We are just toooooooooooo tuned in to the fish // alot more people , boats , equipment , alot less enforcement // both rec & commercial ;;

back in the days // you had to know how to fish /or you didn,t get [ANY} ::: Now a yahoo trolls a straight bike tube on wire & catches a 60# /marks the spot with GPS & he,s a hi-liner

if it wasn,t for the electronic,s , internet , articles & ego.s ============= the majority would be yanking their chains >>>> & we have more FISH><><><

ya wanna know when it was the best =================== just before they open striper fishing up to keeping fish again // dates I can,t remember / but I do remember schools coming with the tide ,on top in the bay , not on the spring nor the fall run -==just coming ;;
I remember seeing school;s larger than any bluefish school I,ve ever seen ;;
Going to work ;;stop at this point , take a couple . run to the next ,same thing , again & again ;;coming home after work /usually between noon & one // bright sun // different tide / same results ;;; I had to leave the rods at home because I never got to work ><>><><
I know for a fact that you could get two dozen pogies /after work run down the bay // & use them up on 20-40 pound fish ;;;
I also now two guys that ran to a spot at night // & caught more 50,s & 60,s than you thought existed ..

BTW ===== .15 for bulls ,50 for bass under 6 lbs =========== some dealers wouldn,t even buy large ///

This year $3.00 P/P for any fish over 34" ================ I wonder what a 16" bass is worth ...

I guess I,m done ///just a fat ass [Belly]Clammer

[DZ]

Backbeach,
My statement "dropping the ball" was in reference to the great comeback that those past conservation measures produced. I'm just concerned that we've stopped doing what helped restore the fishery. We're resorting back to the good old days. Your point is well taken.

Clamma - what can I add - you said it all - ranges? What are they?

It's so easy now...

DZ

[Backbeach Jake]

When I first started fishing it was for dinner and freezer fillers. I was married, had a job that didn't pay squat, and Sunday dinner came from Nature. Nature also got me through the Winters. Conservation? Another word for Duty or Responsibility. Otherwise you're stealing from the planet. This rebound in stocks has been amazing, if you were trying to catch during the crash. In the OTW Cup, the cry of outrage at a two fish per week limit, the fishermen demanding it be one instead, has encouraged me that the direction of management in the striped bass is positive. Don't get me wrong there was a time when I would keep every fish in the Ocean, now ,though, I just keep what I need. Back to the subject, I think slots are the way to go. It may be complicated to some, but only if they're not future minded. IMHO breeders should breed, not feed. A tag for "Trophy" fish would be no more confusing than a tag for deer.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Zeno

I read with interest the posts regarding OTW Cup ,conservation and other treads regarding (usually) bragging rights each day.Is something that we don't see much in NY ,guys discussing their catch in online forums .At least not to the extend I see here.Not that there is anything wrong with it.......

my curiosity is peeked by something else ,closely related to the subject
I am curios if there are differences in conservation ethics between NY and other anglers in northeast ,most notably NE and NJ.
I tabulate entries for a year long contest that 16 NY surf fishing clubs participate in .The contest is based on honor system in order to encourage catch and release.Fish are almost never killed for the contest itself ,as a little wood plaque on the end of the year is hardly worth a life of a cow bass.
My club (High Hill Striper Club) releases about 99% of the fish each year.Maybe we keep one or two that is in bad shape or cant be revived.Other clubs have similar conservation guidelines and killing fish is (although not forbidden ) is not encouraged.Even my wider circle of fishing friends ,those not affiliated with the clubs ,rarely take a fish home.
If you ever stood along the hundreds shoulder to should in fall Montauk blitzes you would see that not to many fish are laying on the rocks after blitz commences.
Is it not surprising then that a NY entree in OTW thingy is nowhere to be found.
I know my friends would be dead set against any contest or gathering were they must kill fish,regardless if the prize is a boat or a pot of gold.Maybe because our local legend and one of the best known striped bass conservationist ,Fred Schwab is a member of my club ,that we are so anal about conservation.
But I am curios...is this kind of sentiment prevalent in RI & MA ?

Hate to say it Zeno, but the prevailing mindset around my neck of the woods is, if it's a keeper, it goes home. Both go home if someone gets two.

I eat bass. I love fresh striper and my wife is a hell of a cook. My favorite fish to keep is one around 15 pounds. 35" or so. I get two fresh meals out of it for me and my wife and that's it. No excess, no waste. If I have to keep a bigger one because it's a bleeder, or I can't revive it, the neighbors get half. It boggles people's minds when they watch me release a 20 or 25 pound fish under their noses. "Hey mister, why didn't you keep that one? It was big enough"

[dickmont]

pete, dz, clammer

i coudn't agree with you guys more. i've fished all over this country for 50 years and have zero fish on my walls not because they didn't belong there but because they belonged to the water. don't get me wrong, i LOVE to eat fish. take a picture and let the big one's go. you want the fishery to be good 10, 20 30 years on? don't kill the most sucessful of the breed today. duh!!!!! my 2 cents.

[capesams]

something that never comes up in these discussion is the fact your dealing with two complete generations now....those that were there before and during the 16" age who thought that the fish were endless only to see it crash and now know fish can be wipped out and for the most part take only what they can eat......

the second generation of new fishers who never even knew what it was like before and or don't want to hear or be told to cut back on what they catch because......it could happen again....will look at you like you have two heads.

how would one try to convince the new generation to lission to the history of the by gone days without being told it 2006 and get with the times ya old fart.

[Back Beach]

CS,DZ:

The crux of all my posts here is not to imply that there are endless fish and no conservation is needed. My feeling is despite the current harvest levels, there seems to be plenty of fish.The bilogists/scientists data(not used in the past) seems to support this view. The difference this time around is that there are alot of smalls(replacement fish), unlike just before the collapse when it was all super large(bad).The last thing is that our preferred style(surf or shore fishing) doesn't always produce a true representation of what's available out there. Jump in a boat like DZ said and really anyone can catch large in good quantities. That's a sign that the times are good. I personally keep less than 1% of my annual catch regardless of size and typically just keep the incrementally larger fish. Everything else is released.

Clammer: What type of inner tube should I try and how many #'s of air do you need to put in? Hopefully I can cast the thing.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

I hear ya old man. I would have started in 1970, but I was in diapers. 1980 was just about the modern day bottom for the bass stocks though.Some day I'll look back and call today the good old days.

Hey Clammer. I knew Back Beach when it WAS good on the Back Beaches. That's where I met him years ago and we did have nights of 30 and 40 fish from 20 to 40 lbs. I don't see that happening anymore. I think the Cape downturn is due mostly to the seals. There isn't as many big sandeels as there use to be either.

I think the RI scene is still viable. You just gotta work for the fish. July and August have always been the "Summer Doldrums". Eels in the middle of the night have always been the ticket. So what's changed??? I think that we had a good Spring run (I know my partner and I did) and perhaps guys got spoiled. These are always the toughest 2 months. If you want large you just have to loose sleep and crawl the dark hours with eels. So nothing is different. I am willing to bet that in 2 months (Sept 20th) you will see tons of big fish being caught in the surf. It's always been that way.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

first off i would have to say that anyone who has spent enough time on the water will tell you that just because there are a lot of fish today doesn't mean there will lots tommorrow.every fish keep today is one less tomorrow. i haven't fished from a boat much in the last ten years so i can't say how good or bad it really is.i do know what it was like in the 60's and 70's and i serouisly doubt that the number of fish between 20 and 60 lbs is anywheres near what it was back then.if the boat guys are doing as good as everyone says doesn't that give you an indication that maybe too many fish are being killed, idoubt that many people in the real world practice C@R like the guys on these boards do. i like to eat fish so i keep my share to eat fresh.i am curouis if the boat guys are doing well because there are a lot of fish to catch or are they just catching fish because of there mobility and abilitly to stay on fish if and when they find them.

[baldwin]

I myself practice catch and release for stripers, but I would be happy with a slot length for those who want to keep some for the table. I have problems with those who kill for show-and-tell, but keeping one or two at 24" - 30" would leave those that make it past there to contribute large, healthy, viable eggs. I know and work with NMFS scientists who advocate this practice.
I agree 100% with the previous post that said that every bass released is another to be caught. A good striper is too valuable to be caught only once.

[Pete_G]

As several have mentioned, the boat game has changed SO much in the past few years in particular due to the widespread availability of great GPS units.

Anyone can eventually find the BEST spots anywhere they fish very easily. Just take a look at your GPS, find sharp changes in structure, park your boat near it, throw some plugs at it or pull a tube past it, and usually you'll catch a fish. Or just pick up and move to the next good looking spot. Even an every other week boat fisherman can catch big fish easily now. Obviously before GPS things were a little tougher out there.

I've spent enough time fishing off Newport that thanks to staring at the GPS and the fish finder I literally have almost square foot of real estate you can put a boat over memorized. Think I have an advantage over guys fishing before electronics?

There are many spots and small features that the GPS doesn't reveal and that is still partly what separates one angler from another, but overall it's damn accurate. In tandem with a fish finder anyone can get educated about the bottom of the ocean very easily.

Boat fishing is MUCH easier then it used to be and a whole lot easier then surf fishing simply due to the mobility.

[MrHunters]

fish keep today is one less tomorrow

thats not necissarly true unless you really mean just tomorrow. they do reproduce on occasion.. at any right i know what you mean.

Not all boat fishing guys are doing that great. like i said in a previous post. talked to a commerci guy the other day who fish from 2am to 8pm for 3 or 4 keepers. Fished with a buddy of mine who ALWAYS catches fish and is having a crappy year and other than a million dinks I have one 29" keeper to show for the year.

I personally love to eat what i catch.. Its my favorite tasting fish and would love to have enough for once or twice a month through the winter...I don't see anything wrong with keeping to your means.

Do you think people are wasting what they keep??

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by capesams

the second generation of new fishers who never even knew what it was like before and or don't want to hear or be told to cut back on what they catch because......it could happen again....will look at you like you have two heads.
.

I disagree strongly, I think you'd find that the "new" generation of fisherman practice catch and release more than the old. Many of us begain fishing when we knew the population was in trouble, we never witnessed the massive cathches of the 60,70s. We know what overfishing can do and many of us have more of an environmental approach to fishing. I dont want to turn this into an old vs. new, but I believe your generalization is way off.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I disagree strongly, I think you'd find that the "new" generation of fisherman practice catch and release more than the old. Many of us begain fishing when we knew the population was in trouble, we never witnessed the massive cathches of the 60,70s. We know what overfishing can do and many of us have more of an environmental approach to fishing. I dont want to turn this into an old vs. new, but I believe your generalization is way off.

Was going to say something similar...a lot of the new generation is much more accepting of conservation in principal...we've grown up with it.

To be honest I look at the notion that anyone has the right to take fish, especially from a comercial perspective as quite absurd. I grew up in the midwest and watched the collapse of the "family farm" back home...it's not any different.

-spence

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I disagree strongly, I think you'd find that the "new" generation of fisherman practice catch and release more than the old. Many of us begain fishing when we knew the population was in trouble, we never witnessed the massive cathches of the 60,70s. We know what overfishing can do and many of us have more of an environmental approach to fishing. I dont want to turn this into an old vs. new, but I believe your generalization is way off.

I see people in both groups that really care and are active about as well as those that could give a rat's buttocks about it...

I think one thing that often gets overlooked is that the majority of anglers on boards like these or in fishing clubs tend to be fairly to strongly conservation minded - for example I keep generally less than 5 fish per year - than say your average joe walking into the B&T looking for 2 three packs of frozen bunker and then going next door to the packy.

There are a LOT of people that just don't know ~or~ could give two bleeps. That is where it is important to get the word out to promote a conservation friendly mindset.

Fortunately, we have been having a very strong YOY index, ususally year after year - this bodes well for the future. Unfortunately, problems like general lack of forage fish, disease, polution, and excessive bycatch have a negative impact. I can't see how this tourney - as it stands - can have an even insignificant impact on the species.

As for Tourneys though, I recently had a long and interesting conversation with the fellow that runs the FLW Striper tour. Very interesting and even positive

[Windcheater John]

Guys, the fish are on there way, I have never seen the bass so plentiful down here in jersey, acres of them feeding all around the new moon and full moon, the bunker(pogies) schools are massive and the bass are there. I remember the discussion on the N.J. forums last year and the worrying, then we here about R.I. and the year they where having. When you hear guys down here referring to rats on the beach this morning or this evening, they were actually talking about 15-20#'s

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Windcheater John

Guys, the fish are on there way, I have never seen the bass so plentiful down here in jersey, acres of them feeding all around the new moon and full moon, the bunker(pogies) schools are massive and the bass are there. I remember the discussion on the N.J. forums last year and the worrying, then we here about R.I. and the year they where having. When you hear guys down here referring to rats on the beach this morning or this evening, they were actually talking about 15-20#'s

Road Trip!!!

[JFigliuolo]

Pick up me and shadow on the way through!

[Grapenuts]

And there you have it.....big bait[fish] not crabs or lobster...they have it,we don't[on the cape] maybe in wareham, but not in the bay[after the mac's leave] or on the backside. so it all depend's on who you talk to in the different area's as to the stock of striper's...those fish in NJ won't be coming here anytime soon , if at all unless ....as John r is alway's saying.....SAVE the bait or you'll have no fish.

[Windcheater John]

Hey, Like I said, they are comming temps. are rizing down here and it seems tobe slowing right now but we will see, hopefully you'll get them, it's been one for the books, think about heading them off at the pass bukaroos Find the bunker and they will come

[Redsoxticket]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Road Trip!!!

Count me in

[Mr. Sandman]

Most guys are NOT taking two fish per day. Most recs take nothing home or one large now and again. The guys that that 2 @28 fish so infrequently it is not important.

What hurts IMO is taking 1.2 million # from your 'hood in 4 weeks...and you wonder why the surfcasting suddenly sucks after comm season begins.

take the price off the fish and rebuild bait stocks and you will have all the quailty bass you want.

FWIW, to date, I have released 6 fish that were "pin worthy" and I could have weighed in but released, I only weighed in one fish that was not going to make it and I took that home and consumed it.

IMO this contest is not doing measurable harm to stocks. Also you are now seeing comm guys weigh in fish! Expect to see a LOAD of big fish every week for the next 4 weeks. These are going to market after the scales.