9/11/01

[spence]

Originally Posted by afterhours

i highly doubt that if combined ALL al qaeda induced casualties worldwide that we could possibily come close. when ever a few civilians are killed over there the left press seems to spout.

Well, from what I've read between the Pentagon and the human rights groups the range in Iraq along could be anywhere from the low tens of thousands to the high tens of thousands.

Even if you take a conservative approach, it's still probably 3X what al Qaeda has killed in major attacks.

All for a war Bin Laden said we would wage well before the fact was "decided" by the US Government...and that by most accounts was poorly justified and pathetically planned.

Again, the point is from an Islamic perspective, and even a moderate one at that...do we look like we respect human life?

This is important because just as some here use the lack of respect for human life as a motivator to go after terrorists, so do the terrorists use it against us to gain sympathy from the moderate Islamic community.

-spence

[afterhours]

can you please verify those #'s, show sources. no way in the tens of thousands in iraq.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, from what I've read between the Pentagon and the human rights groups the range in Iraq along could be anywhere from the low tens of thousands to the high tens of thousands.

Even if you take a conservative approach, it's still probably 3X what al Qaeda has killed in major attacks.

All for a war Bin Laden said we would wage well before the fact was "decided" by the US Government...and that by most accounts was poorly justified and pathetically planned.

Again, the point is from an Islamic perspective, and even a moderate one at that...do we look like we respect human life?

This is important because just as some here use the lack of respect for human life as a motivator to go after terrorists, so do the terrorists use it against us to gain sympathy from the moderate Islamic community.

-spence

A moderate perspective understands the difference between targeted civilians, and collateral casualties occuring in a miltary operation.

But what specific war are you refering to when you say "poorly justified"? Iraq, Afghanistan or buth?

Bin Laden wasn't making a lucky guess when he said we would go to war after he attacked our country that was a given as it should be.

And exactly who should "decide" when we go to war?

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

A moderate perspective understands the difference between targeted civilians, and collateral casualties occuring in a miltary operation.

That's the I'm my big comfy couch in New England gonna grill me a 14 ounce steak for dinner line of thinking.

But what specific war are you refering to when you say "poorly justified"? Iraq, Afghanistan or buth?

Iraq.

Bin Laden wasn't making a lucky guess when he said we would go to war after he attacked our country that was a given as it should be.

Well, Bin laden wasn't in Iraq (not sure if this is new to you?), but he did tell the Islamic community that Bush would indeed invade Iraq and humiliate the Iraqi people.

Given that the WMD issue is believed to be a sham worldwide, and that the utter lack of a post war plan has contributed to more Iraqi suffering and violence...

He seems to have built a lot of credibility among the already angered Muslims of the world...in fact invading Iraq how we have has done more to empower his vision for the world than perhaps any other forseeable action the US could have taken.

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

That's the I'm my big comfy couch in New England gonna grill me a 14 ounce steak for dinner line of thinking.


-spence

Yeah only rich Republicans differentiate between airliners being flown into skyscrapers/suicide bombings, and collateral military damage.

And you want to stand by the statement that Iraq didn't have WMD? The only sure thiing and I dont even know how sure that is, is that we didn't find WMD when we invaded and Saddam didn't provide proof of their destruction.

Is it true that Saddam funded Terrorism?

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Yeah only rich Republicans differentiate between airliners being flown into skyscrapers/suicide bombings, and collateral military damage.

We sure didn't care if the Jihadists used these tactics for our proxy wars in Afghanistan against the USSR did we?

Hell, US taxpayers and the CIA helped fund the activities and internationalize the effort.

And you want to stand by the statement that Iraq didn't have WMD? The only sure thiing and I dont even know how sure that is, is that we didn't find WMD when we invaded and Saddam didn't provide proof of their destruction.

Yes, he didn't have any WMD that represented a threat to us.

I have to cook dinner now, but I'll be happy to elaborate on this later.

Is it true that Saddam funded Terrorism?

Not sure. I've only heard it rumored that Saddam had given money to families of Palestenian suicide bombers. While this isn't an action I admire, it's hardly cause to justify an invasion...

A good part of the middle east funds Palestenian suicide bombers, much of which comes from our gasoline purchaces

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

We sure didn't care if the Jihadists used these tactics for our proxy wars in Afghanistan against the USSR did we?

Hell, US taxpayers and the CIA helped fund the activities and internationalize the effort.


Yes, he didn't have any WMD that represented a threat to us.

I have to cook dinner now, but I'll be happy to elaborate on this later.


Not sure. I've only heard it rumored that Saddam had given money to families of Palestenian suicide bombers. While this isn't an action I admire, it's hardly cause to justify an invasion...

A good part of the middle east funds Palestenian suicide bombers, much of which comes from our gasoline purchaces

-spence

Well I dont know about anyone else but Spence has convinced me. We are just as bad and just as guilty as the Terrorists that want to kill us. It looks we owe the world a big apology.

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Well I dont know about anyone else but Spence has convinced me. We are just as bad and just as guilty as the Terrorists that want to kill us. It looks we owe the world a big apology.

Yep, that's about where the Administration's intellectual process keeps breaking down as well.

I guess if we're just prepared to nuke the planet everything will magically fix itsself

What I find ironic...is that 'conservatives' have historically looked towards the past to find solutions to future problems.

Yet the 'neo-conservatives' setting our policy don't appear as to have cracked a history book in their lives.

So what's the 'neo' really stand for? Perhaps it's just a poorly spelled attempt at 'no conservatisim'

-spence