Entrapment Law ?

[Raven]

did that change recently....where a patrolman's car can be
completely non visable to the oncoming motorist? (speeder's)

According to my better half she's seeing this daily?

[tynan19]

Most radar cars in my area don't run their running lights anymore. Kind of dangerous on rural roads.
I don't think it falls under the category of entrapment. I do however think that when a mustang or camaro gets you to race them, then pulls you over should be somewhere along the lines of entrapment.

[fishsmith]

I've heard that before but never understood it.

entrapment is defined as "the luring by a law-enforcement agent of a person into committing a crime. "

I don't see how a cop hiding is luring the speeder to speed.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by fishsmith

entrapment is defined as "the luring by a law-enforcement agent of a person into committing a crime. "

I don't see how a cop hiding is luring the speeder to speed.

Exactly. And one of the keys to a successful entrapment defense is a showing that the defendant wasn't "pre-disposed" to commit the crime and wouldn't have committed it but for the police enticing him into committing it.

I don't know of any law that ever said a cruiser had to be "visible" to oncoming speeders. I think it resulted from a practical matter, ie, older types of radar needing a clear line of sight to be effective.

[RIJIMMY]

The defense is that, if I dont see a cop, I dont drive slow, so by not being visible, he is forcing me to speed.

[stripersnipr]

I alway thought the best deterrent to speeding on highways would be designated speed traps. If a sign was posted saying "Designated Speed Traps Every Half Mile" and those designated spots were utilized randomly by radar units it would be a clear deterrent to speeders. The biggest drawback would be lost revenue from decreased speeding fines but if the goal truly is to prevent speeding it should help greatly.

[Swimmer]

What MikeP said is comletely accurate. And to say police are running radar to generate revenue is inaccuate. At least the money comes back to the town where the officer risks his butt and just doesn't end up in state coffers. In Massachusetts there is only one town in which the money generated by fines as a result of a citation is returned directly to the police department. All other fines go directly to that towns general fund.

I can tell you somedays you can hide and no one drives fast by you and other days you can sit out in the open and you get writers cramp.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

What MikeP said is comletely accurate. And to say police are running radar to generate revenue is inaccuate. At least the money comes back to the town where the officer risks his butt and just doesn't end up in state coffers. In Massachusetts there is only one town in which the money generated by fines as a result of a ciattion is returned directly to the police department. All other fines go directly to that towns general fund.

I can tell you somedays you can hide and no one drives fats by you and other days you can sit out in the open and you get writers cramp.

I wasn't infering police were supplementing their incomes with speeding fines, but all fines generate revenue for somebody, either the Feds/States/ or Towns. I know individual officers are not driven by revenue enhancement but you can be sure somewhere in the fiscal chain someone is anticipating a certain Traffic Fine dollar amount as a projected revenue line item on next years budget. Besides that how do you think the "designated speed trap" idea would effect speeding in general?

[Mike P]

Let's face it guys--in most parts of the Northeast, if you're traveling on an Interstate, you have to be going a good 10+ over the limit to even get pulled over. In NY, the State Police won't pull you over unless you're doing 15 over. One female Trooper told my wife "Just keep it under 70 sweetie and you'll be fine". In 55 mph zones, their motto is "69 is fine"

Let's say you're sitting in your computer room and you respond to an e-mail from some strange female. You start a correspondance with this "girl" who tells you she's 14, when in reality it's a male FBI agent or detective doing a pedophile sting. The correspondance gets more and more heated over the next few weeks, and you make arrangements to meet with her. When you keep the date, there's an army of cops there to slap the cuffs on you. If that's not entrapment--and take my word for it that it's not since you're going to have a hell of a hard time arguing no "predisposition"--what makes you think that hiding a cruiser behind a bridge abutment is entrapment?

There's a big difference between dirty pool and entrapment, from a legal standpoint And in my mind, anything that flushes out a guy who'd want to screw a 14 year old he met on the internet isn't even dirty pool.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by Mike P

There's a big difference between dirty pool and entrapment, from a legal standpoint And in my mind, anything that flushes out a guy who'd want to screw a 14 year old he met on the internet isn't even dirty pool.

Hopefully we all agree on that. The ones that I find questionable are the Televised stings where a Female Cop walks the street in her best do-me outfit and some poor sucker ends up busted for solicitation.

[Pete_G]

Around here they completely hide the crusier in the woods and then hide behind a telephone pole, rock wall, or something else before jumping out at the last moment.

I nearly drove off the road the first time one of them jumped out pointing the radar gun at me.

[Swimmer]

StriperSnpr, with a designated zones no one will drive fast until they get to the sign that says the "end designated speed trap zone." No offense, but that is kind of funny. If police weren't out there stopping cars or running radar everyone would be doing 100 m.p.h. if only to keep ahead of the guy behind, because the person in front has that, "he ain't gonna pass me mentality."

What MikeP said is right on the money, "pun intended" again.

There are no minor crashes anymore. Everything is a roll over. Even in the little town where I work. Drive up to a crash in a 30 m.p.h. zone and the freikin car is on the roof. The dash mounted GPS system is intact(illegal nothing is supposed to be installed aftermarket on the dash), the inside the windshield mounted Sirius radio is intact and on, (how does anyone think that its legal to block ones view by suction cupping any item to the inside of your windshield), the fold down CD movie player is still running,(legal as long as the driver can't see it), and the person you were talking with on the cell phone is yelling for you to pick the phone, but you cant because your injured or worse. It wouldn't be so bad about driving ten or fifteen m.p.h. over the "POSTED" speed if all of the drivers attention was on the task at hand, driving the automobile. But at which point less than 100 % is enforcement or even before enforcement comes in to play, at what point does common sense dictate that something is screwed up? Posted speed is the maximum reccomended speed at which the vehicles traveling on a particular road are supposed to drive at. If the weather or other conditions dictate the a driver's speed is supposed to be lowered accordingly. With all the distractions inside vehicles today you might as well be drinking.

Ask yourself one question, will I be able to pass a safety inspection sticker exam with all this stuff mounted the way it is?

Speed is a major part of dangerous driving but all this other stuff I vented about play an even greater part than speeding ever did.

Thier are a few indisputable facts from our point of view about stopping drivers who commit infractions, you have less crashes, less fatal crashes especially, and there is substantially less criminal activity, (armed robberies, b & e's, and so forth) in towns where it is well-known that the police department is pro-active in regard to traffic law enforcement.

One more thing, I'm not perfect either as a driver, so dont think I'm pontificating here because I think I am. I'm human just like we all are.

[tynan19]

[QUOTE=Swimmer;450236] the inside the windshield mounted Sirius radio is intact and on, (how does anyone think that its legal to block ones view by suction cupping any item to the inside of your windshield), QUOTE]

A lot of the local city cops have been using their own personal GPS suctioned to the windshield. I was amazed when I was first behind one. I thought they were city issued but my brother and father both work for the PD and they said that they were the officers own.

[Swimmer]

Your absolutely correct on that one Tynan. It just shows thier playing with thier GPS and not performing other duties. I have a couple of kids that take certain toys in the cruiser with them, which rankles a few people, but so far has gotten by the boss. Police departments are guided by the due care and diligence rules when driving. Its ambiguous enough to allow most anything, but not so ambiguous as to allow really abhorant driving behavior. When I post stuff its just in regard to me. I really dont want anyone here to get caught up in anything. Even though something might be allowed or overlooked by most everyone as far as the driving rules are concerned, we have to remember if we do become involved in a crash and we have some of this equipment in our vehicles and do use the stuff the insurancce companies can stuff it to us surcharge wise if they can show it contributed in the least.

[tynan19]

The bad I see in it is that it is teaching them to depend on electronics to get around. In prior days they needed to learn their route. Their lives as well as their partners depended on it. Now they just type in the address and go.

Basically the same priciple of boat navigation. If you depend on your electronics to navigate and never learn to use a compass and map your screwed when you loose power to those instruments.

[sok]

Originally Posted by tynan19

The bad I see in it is that it is teaching them to depend on electronics to get around. In prior days they needed to learn their route. Their lives as well as their partners depended on it. Now they just type in the address and go.

Basically the same priciple of boat navigation. If you depend on your electronics to navigate and never learn to use a compass and map your screwed when you loose power to those instruments.

I've been offline for a few days so I missed this one.
O.T. but
I work as a service dispatcher, ten road techs, NE & NY.

Do I have your permission to print your post, copy it 100x and plaster it all over the inside of every van?

PLEASE?
I can send the same person to the same place five days in a row and they STILL need the exact address. Five days in a row.
A year and a half with the GPS and they no longer possess the ability to even find their way home without it.

[tynan19]

Be my guest!

[Swimmer]

Thats kind of funny SOK.