Bait shops for us and against us

[OnTheLedge]

Originally Posted by DZ

Looks like RISAA is trying to hold the shops hostage to their view - shame on RISAA.
DZ

This statement is completely false. The following is text from a post Steve Medeiros made today on SNESA responding to someone who suggested a boycott of shops that oppose the ban:


Let start a Boycott. I just sent a Email to Dave at Ocean State Tackle.
> Email address are ( Found on Web Page)
>

Suggest we slow down, Ed.

True, this is an important issue, but is it worth fracturing the recreational
fishing community? Is it worth hard feelings with our friends? Is it worth
hurting local bait shops?

I don't think so.

In a few months, this menhaden deal will be behind us. We may win, or we may
lose, but by summer I'll wager that everyone here will be talking about fishing
and other topics.

Let's NOT leave a trail of hurt, bitterness and broken friendships behind.

Thank the bait shops that have supported this issue.

Save the email campaign for our state legislators when this bill comes forward.
There will be plenty of work to do very soon.

Steve

[Mike P]

There are 7 bait shops in the Canal area that sell fresh pogies. 6 use one of two small time cast netters (Stanley and Pogie Mike). One gets theirs from large scale netters.

The difference in quality is amazing. The stuff caught by trawlers turns to mush in no time at all, reagrdless of how carefully you keep it.

[DZ]

Originally Posted by Robert

This statement is completely false. The following is text from a post Steve Medeiros made today on SNESA responding to someone who suggested a boycott of shops that oppose the ban:


Let start a Boycott. I just sent a Email to Dave at Ocean State Tackle.
> Email address are ( Found on Web Page)
>

Suggest we slow down, Ed.

True, this is an important issue, but is it worth fracturing the recreational
fishing community? Is it worth hard feelings with our friends? Is it worth
hurting local bait shops?

I don't think so.

In a few months, this menhaden deal will be behind us. We may win, or we may
lose, but by summer I'll wager that everyone here will be talking about fishing
and other topics.

Let's NOT leave a trail of hurt, bitterness and broken friendships behind.

Thank the bait shops that have supported this issue.

Save the email campaign for our state legislators when this bill comes forward.
There will be plenty of work to do very soon.

Steve

Robert,
Glad you posted that response but the damage may have already started.
Owners of two of the bait shops are very good friends of mine - they had done a lot for RISAA, donating raffle prizes, bait and prizes for youth fishing clinics, etc. To get "Black Listed" on an email or web site is absolutely wrong. RISAA needs to apologize to all the shops involved.

I know there are many ways to get pogies and the shops I'm sure will find a way. But these other sources may not be as convenient. Shop owners spend a lot of time running their business never mind trying to track down fresh bait for their customers. Lot's of time and time is money.

I don't want to get bogged down in the pros and cons of the proposed legislation on this thread but if any one want's some constructive dialog on the issue start a new thread and I'll chime in.

DZ

[MakoMike]

So how would catyching them via cast or gill nets affect the population of pogies. We have so few B&T shops now, we need to protect the ones we do have. RISAA is cutting its own throat if its a my way or the highway type of deal. I'm sure the guys that either don't support the bill or want to remain neutral have valid reasons for their position. Boycotting tackle shops is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[OnTheLedge]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

RISAA is cutting its own throat if its a my way or the highway type of deal. I'm sure the guys that either don't support the bill or want to remain neutral have valid reasons for their position. Boycotting tackle shops is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Mako Mike...The statement Steve Medeiros made that I posted says exactly what you are saying. Again, no officer of RISAA has ever suggested that any bait shop be boycotted. Whoever suggested that may have been a RISAA member, but they were not speaking on behalf of the organization.

[JohnR]

I think some of the people on the RISAA list are doing just what a lot of people do (us included) on an issue and jump in with two feet all fast and furious. I personally support the legislation without question but I'm not quite ready to pigeon-hole those shops in question because of their stance against or neutral on this position.

I have had good conversations with shop owners, that for this argument will remain nameless, that would forgo ALL pogies for a few years if that would really help the fish stocks (slightly different issue granted, fish stocks -v- Bay health).

I would encourage those shops to reconsider their support, certainly if the issue is short term profit & ease. But harsh fighting amongst "ourselves" as a usergroup would be handing a defeat to this legislation.

Someone wants to vote with their wallet, nothing wrong with that. But don't divide "us" on the premise of this matter.

Ooops - water's burning, soapbox off

[CowHunter]

Many tackle shops that I know of up and down the coast get there pogies from 1 man pogie cast net operations just like mike p said. Many pride themselves in fresh bait, and sure they have the frozen stuff. But most of the people that I know of want fresh. Why anybody would by the stuff that comes off these big boats is beyond me, its all mush. The bait is all bruised, soft, and not iced properly. Anybody would cast it right off the hook.....Worthless. Its lobster bait. Now how the hell would somebody like a single cast netter put a dent into the pogies? I dont think any of you Rhode Islanders have an idea what the bay would look like without those boats taking millions of pounds. I'm gonna make a video this year of the pogies here in the spring. Ive had clients that fished up in Mass for years come up and they are in awe. truly amazing, bait and fish. Guys arent just catching big bass but these guys are catching 14, 15, 16, 17lb weakfish on whole live pogies. Agian, Some of you are where we in NJ / NY were a few years ago. The fishing down right sucked here! Ive seen acres of dead bass floating up top, getting washed on beaches from the reduction boats. after the first year of them out of here, there was a huge difference....Enough of my rambling, what the hell do I know...Im done with this topic.....

[eelman]

Originally Posted by DZ

Robert,
Glad you posted that response but the damage may have already started.
Owners of two of the bait shops are very good friends of mine - they had done a lot for RISAA, donating raffle prizes, bait and prizes for youth fishing clinics, etc. To get "Black Listed" on an email or web site is absolutely wrong. RISAA needs to apologize to all the shops involved.

I know there are many ways to get pogies and the shops I'm sure will find a way. But these other sources may not be as convenient. Shop owners spend a lot of time running their business never mind trying to track down fresh bait for their customers. Lot's of time and time is money.

I don't want to get bogged down in the pros and cons of the proposed legislation on this thread but if any one want's some constructive dialog on the issue start a new thread and I'll chime in.

DZ

Dennis, 99% of bait shops get there frozen slushpuppies (Menhaden) from REGAL BAIT CO- IN NEW JERSEY, So the bait shops are not starving by any means.

Cowhunter is right, you want to keep catching long lean starving bass go ahead and support Ark bait...Its funny your such a Champion for the Striped bass but you dont want to have the same enthusiasm for saving there food source? Without the food there wont be any of your beloved "Cows" or "Bulls" to toss back..

RISAA In no way at all called for any type of boycott whatsoever....It was a few hotheads who sent emails saying that...I am on that email list and read all the emails, Its just like what goes on here as John Said.

As far as it hurting a buisness, I would think our bay and its health and the health of the striped bass would be more important than not being able to sell some chunk bait...There are lots of buisness people who take hits everyday and for far less important things than the overall well being of the bay...

As for what certain bait shops have done for RISAA...By donating whatever...what does that have to do with anything? we should let our menhaden stocks be depleated because some stuff was donated for a raffle? I think the submision of this bill was about far more than that ..

I dont look at this as a personall attack at all on anyone, this is for the betterment of our Bay ! I have nothing against Ark Bait personally, in fact I have no problem getting bait from them, they always give it out freely, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking the fishing and the bay will improve 100 fold if they are kept out or even restricted more. This is going to end up a compromise in my and from what I hear it will be a win...win for everyone.

[DZ]

Billy,
Like I said previously i'd rather not get into the bill on this thread.
Start a new thread and I'll tell you how I personally feel about the issue.

This thread is about the Black Listing of shops: I'm not privy to the RISAA email list. But that black list had to originate somewhere. Someone at RISAA compiled it. It shouldn't have been done in my opinion.
Thanks for your thoughts.

DZ

[riverrat2]

Cowhunter I don't think anyone is arguing that the bill isn't a good thing. I fully back the bill but to come out and say that these shops are "against us" is wrong.

[eelman]

Originally Posted by DZ

Billy,
Like I said previously i'd rather not get into the bill on this thread.
Start a new thread and I'll tell you how I personally feel about the issue.

This thread is about the Black Listing of shops: I'm not privy to the RISAA email list. But that black list had to originate somewhere. Someone at RISAA compiled it. It shouldn't have been done in my opinion.
Thanks for your thoughts.

DZ

Understood dennis, I can assure you that no blacklisting was done in the email group..There were a few emails saying that they it should be done but they were quickly shot down.A couple bad apples ,its unfortunate but people have opinions..Anyway, never did I see any RISAA board member say blacklisting was apropriate..

The only thing that was compiled was a list of who is for the bill .

[piemma]

I don't think whether the bait shops support or don't support the bill will have a substantive effect on the success or failure of the bill. THERE!!!

[spence]

Originally Posted by piemma

I don't think whether the bait shops support or don't support the bill will have a substantive effect on the success or failure of the bill. THERE!!!

I think it could have some impact. If I was presenting against the bill I'd certainly make an emotional plea of the small business impact that passage could have.

If the majority of shops support the bill it blows this out of the water...

-spence

[Roger]

Originally Posted by DZ

I'm not privy to the RISAA email list. But that black list had to originate somewhere. Someone at RISAA compiled it. It shouldn't have been done in my opinion.
DZ

First -it was published on the SNESA list which is available for anyone to receive by signing up through the RISAA site. No secrets there.

Second: RISAA did compile the list of supporters and non-supporters, but it was done to research the claims made by Ark Bait's letter to the RI legislators that said RI Baitshops were against the menhaden bill. It also said that lobstermen would be hurt and stated that Ark Bait is a Rhode Island company. These points have been proven wrong or significantly misleading due to the diligent work done by RISAA volunteers.

The same hard working people that you are quick to put down - repeatedly, while admitting that you don't have any facts - that's shameful.

These are people motivated by what's best for the bay, so they work hard to get information that will let folks be knowledgable. IMO that's a good thing.

OTOH, your way - keeping information secret which leads to double dealing, back room shenanigans with cronies - represents the worst of the RI political system, and I'm against it.

So I'll continue to follow my conscience by not supporting shops that IMO don't support the health of the bay.

[riverrat2]

Its fine that you don't support the shops but to make a post on a very public forum that points the finger at certain business and portrays them as being the bad guy is NOT a good thing. I agree 100% that the bill should be passed but there has to be better ways than this. You have to look at it from their point of view. I can see where they might be coming from. Losing fresh bait would be a huge loss for many shops. But they must realize that they will be able to get bait from different sources.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by riverrat2

Its fine that you don't support the shops but to make a post on a very public forum that points the finger at certain business and portrays them as being the bad guy is NOT a good thing. I agree 100% that the bill should be passed but there has to be better ways than this. You have to look at it from their point of view. I can see where they might be coming from. Losing fresh bait would be a huge loss for many shops. But they must realize that they will be able to get bait from different sources.

I think that is one of the problems, those "other sources" don't exist as of the moment. Lots of talk about gillnetters and castnetter filling the damand of the bait shops, but no one really knows for sure yet that it will happen. Not many people have gillnet licenses in the state.

[JFigliuolo]

1. I see no problem w/publishing who is for or against the ban. If you are a shop owner and take a stand (in either direction) please have the conviction to stand behind it and deal with the repurcusions.

2. If this WAS a blacklist, which I don't think it was, THIS is not the place for it.

3. I don't give a flying f'all where bait shops will be getting there bait from IF Ark is kicked out. It is absolutely assinign(sp), to make a decision the ultimately effects the health of the bay based on the economics of a bait/tackle shop. Although I do realize $$$ talks.

4. If a void opens up regarding getting bait it will be filled. If there is $$$ in it I gaurentee someone will exploit it.

5. I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for commecial fishermen (most). I work w/ a reformed commercial dragger. The stories he tells make me ashamed to be a human being. I really have no reason the believe others are much different. Again, I am sure there are exceptions.

[riverrat2]

That was my point essentially, Mako Mike, these shops that are supposedly the bad guys are worried that they won't get bait but if the pogies were as thick as I have heard it shouldnt be too hard for anyone that is skilled with a thrownet to do a number on them. Like others have said basically the whole cape cod canal area tackle shops are supplied by two seperate one man operations. Both of these guys weapons of choice is the thrownet so it can and will be done.