BENWEEWEE (finance content)

[likwid]

BSC

wtf?
cheapest its been in 10 years.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by likwid

BSC

wtf?
cheapest its been in 10 years.

BSC ??????????

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

BSC ??????????

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/20/maga...ion=2007082105

[fishpoopoo]

dude, steer clear of it. in fact, steer clear of all financials for the time being.

i used to work there. what a crappy firm. they are laying tons of people off right now.

they are a fixed income shop with second rate equity and derivatives franchises. they made their name in the 80's and 90's in mortgage-backed securities.

funny, for a shop that is a stickler for risk management, they had a few hedge funds blow up recently (subprime CDO's). liquidity has frozen in most mortgage-backed asset classes (the bread and butter of BSC's biz) and in spite of bernanke wussing out on interest rates ... MBS markets are not likely to improve any time soon.

there might be more skeletons in the closet.

anyhoo, if you believe in wall street consensus, according to First Call, the consensus rating is 2.31, which is basically a weak-tit buy rating.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by likwid

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/20/maga...ion=2007082105

Thank you Likwid........

[fishpoopoo]

Please tell me you didn't buy this stock.

Stay away from financials.

The writedowns are just the tip of the iceberg ... some industry analysts are estimating up to $500 BILLION of subprime loans will be written down in the U.S. in the near term. That's conservative, given the trillion or so of existing loans that are about to reset.

Before I jump into this name ... I'd look at the mortgage insurers first. If any of them go belly up, it's time to short Goldman Sachs.

[likwid]

The sky is falling!

[Nebe]

its all bush's fault.

[GonnaCatchABig1]

i'm no financial expert.. but i am going to say invest in concrete. you heard me.
do you know how many bunkers are gonna be built when the poop hits the fan with iran and russia.. and if you were paying close attention china... (yeah people say it wont happen casue we provide them with factory income. but if you paid close attention lately you would have picked up on the "buy from people you trust" comment from the bush administration. about the recalls on chinese toys. which in effect stated "buy american and/or not chinese" cutting out the chinese.. uuuuh oooohhh)

the nukes are set to fly. people need some solid concrete for them bunkers. of course if this prediction is right. screw the market. it wont matter in the mad max world. but it might buy you a bunker before it all goes haywire.

call me crazy.. i call me prepared. so far i have called it from the start over 10 yrs ago when i was 12. and everything is panning out. thats not even counting all the ancient predictions about this time period. prepare wisely.

just make sure IF it all does go as i have predicted.. you envision me saying " i told ya so" if not.. i owe you a beer..

[Backbeach Jake]

I've seen reports that the Chinese are ramping up their military big time even though they have no serious war going on. I'm investing in shot shells.

[justplugit]

Macadam is the way to go. Every road in the country needs re-paving.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by GonnaCatchABig1

just make sure IF it all does go as i have predicted.. you envision me saying " i told ya so" if not.. i owe you a beer..

This is a finance discussion not a tin foil hat discussion.

[spence]

The nukes are not set to fly. All the countries that have nukes have them locked up nice and tight, well except perhaps for the US Airforce

I'm a believer that MAD is a very powerful motivator, and everyone in the Club has something big to loose. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

What's more disturbing is the net loss of global influence the US is going to continue to see over the next few decades. We're not headed towards WWIII, but our way of life might just need to be modified to maximize our resources and keep the USA running strong.

-spence

[striperman36]

all my trailing stops triggered this week. I am totally in cash at the moment until this next round of credit and oil issues go thru the market there are like day trades only to be had.

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by likwid

This is a finance discussion not a tin foil hat discussion.

We maybe in tin foil hat discussion time now ... maybe cuz it's time to short Goldman Sachs.

Holy Sheet. GS has (had) more toxic junk that Citi or Merrill does (did).

For those that don't understand the situation ... let's use a (poor) analogy.

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo's analogy

This is a hypothetical analogy: There has been a boom in beachmaster plugs. Everybody's been buying and trading cowboys and atom 40's and rare jointed dannies and darters.

Problem crops up on some of these after 100 casts - some of them split down the middle. And then, roughly 1/3 of them ooze date plutonium paint that makes your pecker fall off if you're not careful. And another 10% of these are sea robin aphrodisiacs. The value of these things has deteriorated by 90%, and NOBODY wants to trade them AT ALL (illiquid market).

Goldman Held Bigger Share of Level 3 Assets Than Citi, Merrill

By Yalman Onaran and Christine Harper


Nov. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc. held a bigger proportion of hard-to-value assets at the end of the third quarter than Citigroup Inc. and Merrill Lynch & Co., two of the firms hardest hit by subprime mortgage losses.

Goldman's Level 3 assets, for which market prices are so scarce that companies use internal models to gauge their value, accounted for 6.9 percent of the New York-based firm's $1.05 trillion total at the end of August, according to a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Citigroup classified 5.7 percent of its assets as Level 3 on Sept. 30 and Merrill reported 2.5 percent.

Investors have grown wary of banks and brokerages with difficult-to-sell securities on their books, after profits at Citigroup and Merrill were crippled by at least $19 billion of writedowns, mostly from bonds backed by home loans to borrowers with poor credit histories. While Goldman officials say the firm won't report an ``extraordinary'' drop in its subprime holdings, investors have remained skeptical, pushing its shares down 15 percent this month in New York Stock Exchange trading.

``It's hard to believe Goldman is perfect,'' said Jon Fisher, who helps oversee $22 billion at Minneapolis-based Fifth Third Asset Management and sold his Goldman, Merrill and Morgan Stanley shares in the past 12 months. ``Their losses might be smaller than others, but that doesn't mean they don't have a problem.''

Goldman posted a 79 percent increase in third-quarter profit, the biggest on Wall Street, even after shaving $1.48 billion from the value of high-yield loans. Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and Bear Stearns Cos. reported declines, and Merrill Lynch & Co. said $8.4 billion of writedowns led to a $2.2 billion loss, the biggest in the firm's history. All the companies are based in New York.

LBO Market

``Just because they're in Level 3 doesn't mean we're not pricing them correctly,'' Goldman Chief Accounting Officer Sarah Smith said in a Nov. 9 interview. ``We mark our positions to the point where we could exit at that moment.''

The 33 percent increase in Level 3 assets in the third quarter was mostly due to the freeze in the leveraged buyout market, which left firms including Goldman stuck with loans, Smith said. Goldman wrote down the value of those commitments when the debt was moved to Level 3. As the buyout market recovers, the loans may be upgraded to Level 2, she said.

Goldman's Level 3 holdings totaled about $72 billion at the end of August. Stripping out stakes owned by others, Goldman's ``exposure'' was $50.9 billion, or 4.9 percent of the firm's total assets. A ``substantial percentage'' are private equity and real estate investments, said Goldman spokesman Lucas van Praag.

FAS 157

While those typically fall into the Level 3 category, assets such as leveraged loan commitments shift from one level to another depending on market conditions, Smith said.

``We take issue with the notion that all assets in Level 3 are hard to value,'' said van Praag. ``Given the disclosure rules, it is inevitable that any firm with a large private equity and real estate portfolio would have significant Level 3 assets.''

All the firms have adopted a Financial Accounting Standards Board rule, known as FAS 157, which requires public companies to disclose a breakdown of their asset valuations.

Under the rule, Level 1 assets are those for which market prices are readily available. Level 2 holdings are valued based on ``observable inputs,'' or prices of similar assets traded in the market. Assets fall into the Level 3 category when there aren't even any observable inputs, and the firm has to rely on in-house models to calculate potential gains or losses.

Prince, O'Neal

Morgan Stanley, whose Level 3 assets made up 7.4 percent of the firm's total at the end of the third quarter, said last week that it wrote down $3.7 billion in the first two months of the fourth quarter because of the declining subprime market.

Most of the writedowns were related to holdings of collateralized debt obligations based on subprime mortgage bonds. Goldman, like most firms, doesn't disclose the value of its CDOs, which are securities made up of other bonds and loans, including mortgages.

When Merrill announced its third-quarter writedown, the firm said its stake in CDOs fell by more than half to $15 billion. Citigroup reported last week that it had $43 billion of asset-backed CDOs. The company has said it may have to write down $11 billion on top of the $6 billion posted in the third quarter. All the firms are based in New York.

Shares of Citigroup and Merrill dropped more than 19 percent this month, and Citigroup Chief Executive Officer Charles O. ``Chuck'' Prince and Stan O'Neal, his counterpart at Merrill, lost their jobs.

`Measurement Error'

``The market does not exist for a lot of these things,'' said Edward Ketz, an associate professor of accounting at Pennsylvania State University in University Park, Pennsylvania. ``Third level measures are fraught with lots of measurement error, in part because you are using assumptions.''

Lehman, the biggest U.S. underwriter of mortgage bonds, categorized 5.3 percent of its assets as Level 3 and Bear Stearns, the second-largest, reported 4.2 percent.

``Even Level 2 is hard to price,'' said Roger Lister, chief credit officer for financial institutions at Dominion Bond Rating Service. ``Writedowns are coming out of Level 2 as well as 3. In the world of fixed income, prices have become less observable in the last few months. That's why Level 3 is surging.''

To contact the reporter on this story: Yalman Onaran in New York at yonaran@bloomberg.net ; Christine Harper in New York at charper@bloomberg.net .

Last Updated: November 12, 2007 00:21 EST

[fishpoopoo]

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.



we interrupt this bear market rally with news of an investment bank blowup.

BSC at $35, down $22.

Bear Stearns Gets Emergency Bailout From JPMorgan, New York Fed

By Yalman Onaran


March 14 (Bloomberg) -- Bear Stearns Cos. obtained emergency funding from JPMorgan Chase & Co. and the New York Federal Reserve as the securities firm said its cash position had ``significantly deteriorated.''

The New York Fed will ``provide non-recourse, back-to- back'' financing for up to 28 days, JPMorgan said in a statement today. Bear Stearns said it was in talks with the New York-based bank ``regarding permanent funding or other alternatives.''

Bear Stearns plummeted $11.90, or 20.8 percent, to $45.10 at 9:54 a.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading, the lowest level in more than six years. The shares are down more than 50 percent this year.

Chief Executive Officer Alan Schwartz said in a statement that the firm acted in response to ``market rumors'' of a liquidity crisis. He had denied this week that the firm faced a cash shortage, saying the company's ``liquidity cushion'' was sufficient to weather the credit-market contraction.

``We have tried to confront and dispel these rumors and parse fact from fiction,'' Schwartz sad in the New York-based company's statement today. ``Nevertheless, amidst this market chatter, our liquidity position in the last 24 hours had significantly deteriorated.''

``The issue now is whether Bear Stearns customers will stick around,'' said Bruce Foerster, president of South Beach Capital Markets and a former Wall Street executive. ``Some others have gotten through the same kind of troubles, some ended up being shut down or sold. I'm hoping Bear can get past it.''

To contact the reporter on this story: Yalman Onaran in New York at yonaran@bloomberg.net.

Last Updated: March 14, 2008 09:55 EDT

[MakoMike]

Did you know that country wide is a bank? There is only one type of lender in the home mortagage market, banks. Mortgage brokers all work for or with banks. So I really don't understand waht you are saying. Are you saying that banks shouldn't be able to sell the mortagages that they originate to toher banks? If that's the case then how will money flow from one area of the country to another?

[likwid]

Jimmy Cayne just sold out all his shares for $61M.... This $10 deal is done, he sold at like $10.71 a share. Last January he was worth a BILLION.

Bwahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha

[mosholu]

I do not think Jimmy's out of the woods yet as he is going to be a defendant in almost every lawsuit. What I find hard to take about the guy is the company he was at his whole life is going down and he is at some bridge contest. It might not have changed anything but you think the least he could do was walk the halls and give people some support. Complete wanker.