Scary Times Comin'

[The Dad Fisherman]

Got a feeling there's gonna be a lot of this for the next few years. I spent some considerable time down south and they still are mad they lost the civil war

After Obama's win, white backlash festers in US

Atlanta – In rural Georgia, a group of high-schoolers gets a visit from the Secret Service after posting "inappropriate" comments about President-elect Barack Obama on the Web. In Raleigh, N.C., four college students admit to spraying race-tinged graffiti in a pedestrian tunnel after the election. On Nov. 6, a cross burns on the lawn of a biracial couple in Apolacon Township, Pa.

The election of America's first black president has triggered more than 200 hate-related incidents, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center – a record in modern presidential elections. Moreover, the white nationalist movement, bemoaning an election that confirmed voters' comfort with a multiracial demography, expects Mr. Obama's election to be a potent recruiting tool – one that watchdog groups warn could give new impetus to a mostly defanged fringe element.

Most election-related threats have so far been little more than juvenile pranks. But the political marginalization of certain Southern whites, economic distress in rural areas, and a White House occupant who symbolizes a multiethnic United States could combine to produce a backlash against what some have heralded as the dawn of a postracial America. In some parts of the South, there's even talk of secession.

"Most of this movement is not violent, but there is a substantive underbelly that is violent and does try to make a bridge to people who feel disenfranchised," says Brian Levin of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino. "The question is: Will this swirl become a tornado or just an ill wind? We're not there yet, but there's dust on the horizon, a swirling of wind, and the atmospherics are getting put together for [conflict]."

Though postelection racist incidents haven't posed any real danger to society or the president-elect, law enforcement is taking note.

"We're trying to be out there at the cutting edge of this and trying to stay ahead of groups that are emerging," says Special Agent Darrin Blackford, a spokesman for the Secret Service, which guards the US president.

"Anytime you start seeing [extremist propaganda] floating around, you have to be concerned," adds Lt. Gary Thornberry of the Oklahoma Highway Patrol, a member of the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force. "As far as it being an alarmist situation, I don't see that yet. From a law enforcement point of view, you have to be careful, because it's not illegal to have an ideology."

After sparking conflict and showdowns in the 1990s – think Ruby Ridge, Waco, the Oklahoma City bombing – white supremacist and nationalist groups began this century largely splintered and powerless. Though high immigration levels helped boost the number of hate groups from 602 in 2000 to 888 in 2007, key leaders of such groups had died, been imprisoned, or were otherwise marginalized.

But postelection, at least two white nationalist websites – Stormfront and the Council of Conservative Citizens – report their servers have crashed because of heavy traffic. The League of the South, a secessionist group, says Web hits jumped from 50,000 a month to 300,000 since Nov. 4, and its phones are ringing off the hook.

"The vitriol is flailing out shotgun-style," says Mr. Levin. "They recognize Obama as a tipping point, the perfect storm in the narrative of the hate world – the apocalypse that they've been moaning about has come true."

Supremacist propaganda is already on the upswing. In Oklahoma, fringe groups have distributed anti-Obama propaganda through newspapers and taped it to home mail boxes. Ugly incidents such as cross-burnings, assassination betting pools, and Obama effigies are also being reported from Maine to Alabama.

The Ku Klux Klan has been tied to recent news events, as well. Two Tennessee men implicated for plotting to kill 88 black men, including Obama, were tied to the KKK chapter whose leader was convicted in a civil trial in Brandenburg, Ky., last week, for inciting violence. The murder last week in Louisiana of a KKK initiate, allegedly killed after trying to back out of joining, came at the hands of a new group called Sons of Dixie, authorities say.

"We're not looking at a race war or anything close to it, but ... what we are seeing now is undeniably a fairly major backlash by some subset of the white population," says Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Report in Montomgery, Ala. "Many whites feel that the country their forefathers built has been ... stolen from them, so there's in some places a real boiling rage, and that can only become worse as more people lose jobs."

In an election in which barely 20 percent of native Southern whites in Deep South states voted for Obama, the newly apparent political clout of "outsiders" and people of color has been unnerving to some.

"In states like Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama, there was extraordinary racial polarization in the vote," says Merle Black, a political scientist at Emory University in Atlanta. "Black Americans really do believe that Obama is going to represent their interests and views in ways that they haven't been before, and, in the Deep South, whites feel exactly the opposite."

But for nonviolent secessionist groups like the League of the South, the hope is for a more vigorous debate about the direction of the US and the South's role in it, says Michael Tuggle, a League blogger in North Carolina.

Mr. Tuggle says his group isn't looking for an 1860-style secession but, rather, a model that Spain, for one, is moving toward, in which "there's a great deal of autonomy for constituent regions" – a foil to what is seen as unchecked, dangerous federal power in Washington.

"To a lot of people, the idea of secession doesn't seem so crazy anymore," says Tuggle. "People are talking about how left out they feel, ... and they feel that something strange and radical has taken over our country."

[Raven]

Build them there-
great way to stimulate the economy ...
cheaper to heat
make sure all the guards are Black

[PaulS]

I'd be willing to give up the Dakotas and Wy to the secessionists

[stcroixman]

the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I'd be willing to give up the Dakotas and Wy to the secessionists

No, we want Wyoming.

[Nebe]

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by likwid

No, we want Wyoming.

You can still visit Jackson Hole with a passport.

[Bronko]

No worries, he's gonna make EVERYTHING better, he promised.

BTW, Michelle isn't worrying. For the first time in her life she is proud of this country.

[PaulS]

Then why are there so many death threats if he promised that?

[BigFish]

When are people going to get their heads out of the 1850's??? I hear it smelled there alot like the dark, smelly hole where their head is most of the time!!

[spence]

Originally Posted by BigFish

When are people going to get their heads out of the 1850's??? I hear it smelled there alot like the dark, smelly hole where their head is most of the time!!

Huh? Try the 1950s! A lot of people still alive who lived through desegregation.

-spence

[likwid]

Originally Posted by PaulS

You can still visit Jackson Hole with a passport.

I was thinking more ease of access to get to Grand Targhee.
JH doesn't get snow.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by likwid

I was thinking more ease of access to get to Grand Targhee.
JH doesn't get snow.

Jackson is a cool place. The bar at the Silver Dollar is an outstanding piece of work.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by MAC

Jackson is a cool place. The bar at the Silver Dollar is an outstanding piece of work.

Waaaay overpriced though.
Surprisingly enough the big bar at JHMR was reasonable for pitchers of Sam.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by likwid

Waaaay overpriced though.
Surprisingly enough the big bar at JHMR was reasonable for pitchers of Sam.

I haven't been there since the early 90s. It was expensive back then. The saddle seats were kind of corny. But all those silver dollars set in the bar was amazing. If I remember right they used nitrogen to shrink each coin before putting it in the bar top.

The wagon ride in to the elk refuge was amazing as well.


Sorry for the thread hijack TDF. Just reminiscing about a cool place.

[Nebe]

Me thinks that the story got screwed up along the way.. I bet that they used CO2 to degas the resin.. much like putting clear epoxy on a plug.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Me thinks that the story got screwed up along the way.. I bet that they used CO2 to degas the resin.. much like putting clear epoxy on a plug.

The bar wasn't epoxy coated back when I was there. I do remember asking the bar tender if they ever had anyone try to get one of the dollars out. That was when he told me they could never get one out.

[MAC]

Whatever they did ,it is impressive to see first hand.

[PaulS]

The wagon ride through the elk refuge was cool. Also, just driving along a river to go snowmobiling and seeing 100s of elk hanging out there was also pretty cool.

[Raven]

They used Adrian Monk to align the coins i heard

[likwid]

Drove by the Elk Refuge but never went into it, just go there to ski JH and Grand Targhee and snowshoe in Teton NF.



Lots of rises before that pic was taken. Wished I had a fly rod with me.

[RIJIMMY]

I thought this was about the economy!

So the article..... lets analyze a few sentences -
"We're not looking at a race war or anything close to it, but ... what we are seeing now is undeniably a fairly major backlash by some subset of the white population," says Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Report in Montomgery, Ala. "Many whites feel that the country their forefathers built has been ... stolen from them, so there's in some places a real boiling rage, and that can only become worse as more people lose jobs."


Huh? So "some" subset has a problem? Then only this subset has a "major backlash". Then the next sentence its "many" whites. Well, which is it?
This my friends is another example of $hit journalism, made to upset the masses. This is a just few isolated incidents. The article says a few times that there are no real threat, yet,,,,its news. A good article would give is a snapshot of how prevalent race crimes are. How many white against black and vice versa are pending trial? Hate crimes? How many threats have white presidents received? Nah....that would require some work, why do that when the morons of the world wouldnt understand?

[RIJIMMY]

ya gotta love this line too -
After sparking conflict and showdowns in the 1990s – think Ruby Ridge, Waco, the Oklahoma City bombing – white supremacist and nationalist groups began this century largely splintered and powerless. Though high immigration levels helped boost the number of hate groups from 602 in 2000 to 888 in 2007, key leaders of such groups had died, been imprisoned, or were otherwise marginalized.

White supremicist groups???? Those were not racial incedents!

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

ya gotta love this line too -
After sparking conflict and showdowns in the 1990s – think Ruby Ridge, Waco, the Oklahoma City bombing – white supremacist and nationalist groups began this century largely splintered and powerless. Though high immigration levels helped boost the number of hate groups from 602 in 2000 to 888 in 2007, key leaders of such groups had died, been imprisoned, or were otherwise marginalized.

White supremicist groups???? Those were not racial incedents!

Nope.
just whack job incidents!

[RIJIMMY]

exactly!

[The Dad Fisherman]

Yep everything is all puppies and daisey's with the Good Ole' Boys down south for our new President Elect.

yeah its the news media and its no secret that they tend to sensationalize but the fact is that a "Subset" of people are pissed off about it and they happen to be white........ and it will help them recruit new members. There is going to be a surge in White Supremist groups because of this and things are going to get ugly.

I agree the Ruby Ridge, Waco connection was a stretch.....but it does echo the same thought processes.....

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Yep everything is all puppies and daisey's with the Good Ole' Boys down south for our new President Elect.

yeah its the news media and its no secret that they tend to sensationalize but the fact is that a "Subset" of people are pissed off about it and they happen to be white........ and it will help them recruit new members. There is going to be a surge in White Supremist groups because of this and things are going to get ugly.

I agree the Ruby Ridge, Waco connection was a stretch.....but it does echo the same thought processes.....

Dad, once again, go to good ole you tube and browse my friend Reverend Wright. Seems to me a "subset" of the population was pretty upset already, no?

[The Dad Fisherman]

I'm not arguing that either but if you want to go there over this post.....have a ball. I was just pointing out an increase in white supremist groups and talks of seccession amongst the Southern states....but you can't seem to get past the old issues we beat to death before the elections....

[PaulS]

The fact is clear that there are far, far more incidents of threatening Obama than any other pres. in history. Whether they are white supremists or seccessionists and whether the writer of the article mixed the 2 (although there is prob. much overlap) is besides the point.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by PaulS

The fact is clear that there are far, far more incidents of threatening Obama than any other pres. in history. Whether they are white supremists or seccessionists and whether the writer of the article mixed the 2 (although there is prob. much overlap) is besides the point.

wow, that sounds powerful. Now for the dreaded "P" word.
Prove it.

I believe DATA, not opinions. Man you guys are irritating. Do you have any independent thought? Millions, upon millions of rednecks in the south voted for your many Obama.